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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Left vs Right /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1523709777 Message started by WebsterMark on 04/14/18 at 05:42:57 |
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Title: Left vs Right Post by WebsterMark on 04/14/18 at 05:42:57 “What’s interesting is that on the conservative side of the spectrum we’ve figured out how to box in the radicals and say, ‘no, you’re outside the domain of acceptable opinion,’” the University of Toronto professor said. “Now, here’s the issue. We know that things can go too far on the right, and we know that things can go too far on the left. But we don’t know what the markers are for going too far on the left. I would say that it’s ethically incumbent on those who are liberal or left-leaning to identity the markers of pathological extremism on the left and to distinguish themselves from the people who hold those pathological viewpoints — and I don’t see that that’s being done.” |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by Serowbot on 04/14/18 at 06:55:47 What does he call "to far on the Right"?.... Do you think the Left would agree?... :-? |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by WebsterMark on 04/14/18 at 07:59:41 As a proud member of the Leftist, what or whom, do you call too far to the Right that's not condemned by the vast majority on the Right because that is the central question. |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by Serowbot on 04/14/18 at 08:56:20 Any Pub that thinks taking away from the poor to benefit the rich is progress... They're the Robin Hoods of Bizarro World... Maybe just "hoods"... Any Pub that thinks entire groups of people are "terrorists, rapists, thugs, etc"... Any Pub that thinks Healthcare is a privilege... |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by WebsterMark on 04/14/18 at 09:36:38 Any Pub that thinks taking away from the poor to benefit the rich is progress... That's hardly an exclusive domain of the right so try agaon that I don't know a "Pub" who thinks an entire group are terrorist etc.... Everyone knows health care is a privilege, its just a matter of how best to allocate scarce resources. So you've got nothing? |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by Serowbot on 04/14/18 at 09:58:49 Sure... |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by Serowbot on 04/14/18 at 10:21:20 7E4C4B5A5D4C5B64485B42290 wrote:
After your response to my reply,... this is suddenly very funny... What exactly is your "outside the domain"?... Trump has already lent support to Neonazis, and women abusers... and got hookers to pee for him,... so where is that line?... Chicken fukkers?... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 04/14/18 at 10:44:14 that statement is BS. politics are politics, did Trump or anyone on the right ever say, "hey racists, bigots, etc.. don't vote for me, I don't want it." If they did say that I can almost guarantee they then followed up with some kind of signal that those with those extreme "right" views that they were still accepted by those politicians, just taking Trump as an example, during the campaign he says he doesn't know who the KKK are, then after a week of that being his default, that he doesn't want to condemn a group that he doesn't know, he eventually, begrudgingly "condemns" them, then to say "there are good people on both sides" during Charlottesville, or while he was campaigning he said he'd be a good friend to the LGBQT groups despite putting Pence in as VP (signalling to the bigots on the right that he's not totally opposed to their POV) and then when he's in office, he's moved to eliminate trans folk from the military sure, the right isolates the extremes... until they need the votes. Same with the left, they'll openly criticize and move away from the extremes like the communists but they always leave room for the extremes to feel they are the best vote for them. sorry, I don't have any examples of that off the top of my head, but I'm sure some of the conservatives here will pipe in and list all the evils that identify with the left and how liberal politicians have done their own dog whistles allowing them to vote for them. |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by MnSpring on 04/14/18 at 11:29:55 68415C434B5C425762415D5A6F5C5A475D5A2E0 wrote:
What is the Difference? did H.R.C or anyone on the Left ever say, "hey Ultra- Liberals, Progressive, Fairy Dust Sprinkling Snowflakes, etc.., don't vote for me, I don't want it." "... I'm sure some of the conservatives here will pipe in and list all the evils that identify with the left and how liberal politicians have done their own dog whistles allowing them to vote for them. ..." So Happy, to make your day Lost ! |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by WebsterMark on 04/14/18 at 16:18:12 485E49544C59544F3B0 wrote:
After your response to my reply,... this is suddenly very funny... What exactly is your "outside the domain"?... Trump has already lent support to Neonazis, and women abusers... and got hookers to pee for him,... so where is that line?... Chicken fukkers?... :-/[/quote] Well, none of that is true so there's that. |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 04/16/18 at 11:51:57 6F5D5A4B4C5D4A75594A53380 wrote:
After your response to my reply,... this is suddenly very funny... What exactly is your "outside the domain"?... Trump has already lent support to Neonazis, and women abusers... and got hookers to pee for him,... so where is that line?... Chicken fukkers?... :-/[/quote] Well, none of that is true so there's that. [/quote] " there are good people on both sides... " yeah, that doesn't give those neo-nazis any room in interpret that as the President supporting them. Especially since Trump had to be cajoled majorly to get him to actually condemn the bigots and white supremacists, just like during his campaign. and he has had to be convinced several times that women abusers shouldn't be working in the White House, "he says he's innocent, that's important to remember" . oh wait, there are photos... uh oh... I'll give you one thing, the jury is still out on the hookers peeing... Trump has been as lenient and accepting of white supremacists and women abusers as Obama was on Black Lives Matters and "non-violent drug criminals" |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/16/18 at 18:59:54 give you one thing, the jury is still out on the hookers peeing... No, it isn't. IF that happened Housekeeping would have found the soaked mattress, Alerted management Management would have Billed the person who rented the room. That's easily investigated. And it hasn't been reported. So It Didn't Happen. |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 04/18/18 at 12:49:36 66797F7865625363536B79753E0C0 wrote:
maybe, but maybe, it's not so easily investigated, it happened in RUSSIA, they could have ceased all those documents and covered it up, to keep it Russian Intel, it's a lot more potent if it's a bombshell from them than it is if everyone knows about it already and to be clear, I'm not saying it happened, but I'm not saying it didn't, I really don't care I don't know man. and you don't know either, they might have the evidence of it but it's not exactly a crime so in he big scheme of things it's not really an issue so they might have evidence but not feel like it's worth dragging an American President through the muck like that, and by they I mean Mueller and his FBI team, not the media. Maybe they are holding that evidence to put in the grand report when it's all done, Mueller's team doesn't exactly leak a lot of info so neither you nor I really have any good intel on what they have. |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by Serowbot on 04/18/18 at 13:10:12 37282E2934330232023A28246F5D0 wrote:
in Russia?... A Russian billionaire oligarch sends hookers to your room, as part of plan to garner influence in a scheme to launder 100's of millions of dirty money... and then he bills you for sheet cleaning?... Really?... Really?....... |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/18/18 at 20:55:12 But the people who understand why there is a second amendment are paranoid. Talk about Bullshit.. |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by MnSpring on 04/19/18 at 08:08:35 From the Original Post: “…But we don’t know what the markers are for going too far on the left….” I would say: Standing in one’s, ’safe’ space, defending ones right to speak their opinion. But not allowing anyone in, that, ’safe’ space, that has a different opinion. Stating that putting up a sign, will protect all, who are in that place, the sign is in front of. Burning cars, Looting, Steeling, Lying, Destruction of property, is the ONLY way to make a opinion heard. All people that own a gun, are Bad people. Only White people can be racist, (or) a race, other than white, cannot be raciest. If you don’t believe what I am telling you, than you Must be a …, …, …, …, …, I don't like what you are doing, so I will make a LAW, you can't do it. I have a thing, that is similar to the thing I want to BAN, therefore, I know all about that thing that I want to BAN. Above, are just a FEW of the things, (In MY Opinion their are a whole lot more) which identify a, Ultra-Liberal. (OBTW, Post #7, is that not a, ‘whataboutism’, ?) |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by Serowbot on 04/19/18 at 08:27:01 496A5774766D6A63040 wrote:
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 04/19/18 at 08:50:12 6E4D7053514A4D44230 wrote:
concerning Post #7: no, it's not. Is Trump not part of the conservative spectrum (if not the leader of it) referenced in the original post? I used an example from that spectrum that was mentioned by the original post to discuss the point of the original post. the original post declares conservatives better stewards of their ideology than liberals, and via example, I proved that wrong, imo. |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by MnSpring on 04/19/18 at 12:51:47 4A5C4B564E5B564D390 wrote:
[/quote] ` |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by MnSpring on 04/19/18 at 12:56:32 5178657A72657B6E5B7864635665637E6463170 wrote:
Did you read the same post I did ? Please point out where it said 'Trump' or any connection to him ! "...the original post declares conservatives better stewards of their ideology than liberals, and via example, I proved that wrong, imo. ..." You proved your point by, WHAT ? |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 04/19/18 at 14:20:49 55764B686A71767F180 wrote:
Did you read the same post I did ? Please point out where it said 'Trump' or any connection to him ! "...the original post declares conservatives better stewards of their ideology than liberals, and via example, I proved that wrong, imo. ..." You proved your point by, WHAT ? [/quote] ' I don't know if this is worth it but... to recap: the original post: “What’s interesting is that on the conservative side of the spectrum we’ve figured out how to box in the radicals and say, ‘no, you’re outside the domain of acceptable opinion,’” the University of Toronto professor said. “Now, here’s the issue. We know that things can go too far on the right, and we know that things can go too far on the left. But we don’t know what the markers are for going too far on the left. I would say that it’s ethically incumbent on those who are liberal or left-leaning to identity the markers of pathological extremism on the left and to distinguish themselves from the people who hold those pathological viewpoints — and I don’t see that that’s being done.” okay, so yes, the post doesn't mention Trump by name. but isn't Trump the de facto leader of the conservatives? He holds the most powerful position in the nation, and he is a conservative or at least has majority support of the conservatives in the nation, right? or was he elected by liberals? So if Trump is the leader as much as there can be a leader of any movement anyway, then his actions have support of the movement in general, otherwise he wouldn't have the support of that movement and wouldn't have gotten elected as President. YES OR NO to that above statement? if it's Yes, then my statement stands, the conservative leader, himself, his actions and words and tweets, could be interpretted by those "conservative radicals" to allow them to think that the conservative leader and therefor the conservative party (republicans???) are okay with those radicals as long as they vote with them to get them power. 1 + 1 = 2 not ZERO . which is what you seem to think. and I said it works the same on the liberal side, sure, Obama doesn't outwardly say he's against communism, until he's been pressed a few times, and he gladly took their votes to get him power and the liberals didn't say crap against it even though the majority of democrats and liberals are against the extremes of communist ideology. this makes both liberals and conservatives equally power hungry and willing to accept votes and influence by the "radicals" of their respective sides. This is a representative argument that displays that no, the conservative side of the spectrum has not figured out how to box in the radicals if the leader they all voted for dog whistled and continues to dog whistle to those radicals to gain and continue getting their support. if NO, then you're on your own trying to explain why not. the markers for going too far either way are the limiting of freedom of individuals just because of ideology -meaning without data driven to protect or serve others in the nation in a meaningful fashion. aka, going too close to authoritarianism. in America, no king is better than a king on your side |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by MnSpring on 04/20/18 at 07:35:57 5D7469767E6977625774686F5A696F72686F1B0 wrote:
Lost, the first thing you need to do, is start thinking for yourself, and stop parroting what a Troll says. Boiled down, to the original post. The Conservatives, have, decided, that the Nazi, KKK, Fascist, parties and the like, are, ULTRA - Conservatives And not part of a main stream conservative believe. AND, have identified they are, “… outside the domain of acceptable opinion…” The Liberals, have NOT, decided, that the, BLM, ANTIFA, Communists/Socialists, and the like, are, ULTRA- Liberal And, ARE, part of a main stream liberal believe. AND, have, NOT, identified they are, “… outside the domain of acceptable opinion…” The name of a ‘belief’, (Any Belief), with a, ULTRA in front of it. has now come to mean the 4-8% of that POV. In other words, the Very Extreme ! Also a voter, who voted for a candidate, who is running under a party, does NOT mean, they support EVERY nail and screw, holding the Planks down. |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/20/18 at 08:37:15 The idea that Trump is a conservative Is nonsense The right is very fractured. The bubs who didn't and don't want trump are plentiful. The left is segmented. They follow the leader. Different people, different degrees of lefty ideology, but they loved Obama. Hillary,meh,, Point is Trump was elected to change things. Jury is still out on what he Intended to do And What Can he do.. The biggest difference between left understanding the right is apparently the inability to understand the people of the right. We aren't all Raah Raah Raah For the team. We don't want to be a part of a team. We just want to live our lives. Be left alone. I don't get goose bumps when I hear trump speak. I suspect the lefties have physical reactions to Trump And Hillary and Obama. |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by Serowbot on 04/20/18 at 08:42:47 Talk to the MAGA hat... :-? |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 04/20/18 at 09:23:37 796660677A7D4C7C4C74666A21130 wrote:
and Trump was elected by who? liberals? the biggest problem with the right is that even though they are segmented, they only think they have that special ability and that the left is somehow a monolithic goose-stepping marching group of mongaloids that can't think for themselves. the reality is that we are all on a spectrum, left to right in various degrees and believe in various aspects of what is considered "left" or "right" as we all individually think is right for each of us. And even though, yes, the right is segmented... let's see who's winning there, it's not the anti-Trumpers, they are mostly conveniently retiring. The extremes and radicals are winning on the right and they have been since the Tea Party movement. so, sure, I'm more left than JOG, but not as far left as Serow, or TT, who aren't as far left as Bill Maher, who isn't as far left as Nancy Pelosi, who isn't as far left as Lena Dunham, who isn't as far left as .... and so it goes but here we all get treated the same, us liberals are all crazy authoritarian Commies blah blah blah. and you might not get goose bumps when you hear Trump Speak, but Sean Hannity has some definite physical reactions to it, ever see him interview Trump, he's like a love sick teenage girl. and I never got shivers when I heard Obama speak either for the record. Let me get this straight: you seem to think it's okay for you to group all the left/liberals together but hate it when we do that to you. Is that what your complaint is?? do you want me to look back through your messages here where you assign what you believe I said vs what I actually said and see how you've actually treated me as a "crazy lefty" when I've gone out of my way to show you I'm not. |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 04/20/18 at 10:23:48 0625183B3922252C4B0 wrote:
Lost, the first thing you need to do, is start thinking for yourself, and stop parroting what a Troll says. Boiled down, to the original post. The Conservatives, have, decided, that the Nazi, KKK, Fascist, parties and the like, are, ULTRA - Conservatives And not part of a main stream conservative believe. AND, have identified they are, “… outside the domain of acceptable opinion…” The Liberals, have NOT, decided, that the, BLM, ANTIFA, Communists/Socialists, and the like, are, ULTRA- Liberal And, ARE, part of a main stream liberal believe. AND, have, NOT, identified they are, “… outside the domain of acceptable opinion…” The name of a ‘belief’, (Any Belief), with a, ULTRA in front of it. has now come to mean the 4-8% of that POV. In other words, the Very Extreme ! Also a voter, who voted for a candidate, who is running under a party, does NOT mean, they support EVERY nail and screw, holding the Planks down. [/quote] when have you started thinking for yourself? you are literally just parroting the original post in your own crazy syntax. You aren't actually responding to my rebuttal of it. Conservatives at all levels are continuing their support of Nazis, KKK and fascist authoritarians as we speak, through various dog whistles and tweet isn't their a Nazi running for the House of Representatives on the Republican ticket in Illinois? He's not running as an independent or in the Nazi party, He apparently feels like he belongs in the Republican party. Sure republican leaders have come out against that, but so what, Democrat leaders have come out against BLM and Antifa and Communists as well, but you still think that Liberals haven't disowned them enough, so I'm allowed to think that you and your conservative brethren haven't disowned your racist, bigoted past. And with tweets by your leaders, who can blame me. BLM, Antifa and communism is not mainstream liberalism, just like racist, nazi and fascist authoritarianism are not mainstream conservativism either. here's the difference, I'm the one here willing to give most conservatives the benefit of the doubt, while you sit there and scream at me not able to think for myself and declare yourself superior to me because you're on the "right" side. and when it comes down to it, both parties are playing to win, and that's it. They'll both take the support of whoever is willing to give it to them, which is what I said in my first response, I am NOT convinced that Racism, White Supremacy and anti LBGTQ and other bigotry and Authoritarian ideology has been sufficiently purged from the conservative spectrum. The current conservative white house would love to be in a more authoritarian state. And I'll admit that yes, BLM, Antifa and communism do have some influence on liberalism in general, the difference is, I disagree with BLM, Antifa and communism in their methods and the limiting individual freedom aspect of some of those (and with communism as a whole because it just becomes unworkable in any practical sense and it's wrong to make people do things they don't want for the "good of the state" or whatever) But I agree with them in a more general way that things could be better, but yes Antifa is a disturbing movement but it's countering a disturbing movement of fascists and bigots. and I disagree with the conservative bigoted movements in that they are target to limit other people's freedom based on "tradition and heritage and outdated values, etc... " so if you were in Illinois, would you vote for the Republican party representative even though he's a Nazi, but he's for your party... or would you at least abstain from voting? (to be fair, I haven't really researched too much about this so I"m not sure how valid the claims of his nazism are. So if you have insight into that then sorry if I've judged too harshly based on the nominal reporting that I've heard about it) <---this statement shows healthy skepticism and a willingness to think for myself by not accepting the reporting I've seen as 100% true and infallible . and for christ sake, I wouldn't have written a response that darn long without using my own brain to create it, so if you could please stop with the "You don't think for yourself and just parrot what a "troll" says" retorts that'd be great since it's borderline defamation and just shows your ignorance. |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by MnSpring on 04/20/18 at 14:43:00 624B56494156485D684B57506556504D5750240 wrote:
So glad to know, that is what you believe. |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by FormerlyLostArtist on 04/20/18 at 14:47:23 2C0F321113080F06610 wrote:
So glad to know, that is what you believe. [/quote] well, let's be clear. that's NOT saying all conservatives show support for those groups, but there are conservatives at all levels of government that do. and yes, it's a rather small minority, but the same is true with liberals, there's a small minority that support the more radical extremes of the crazy left |
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Title: Re: Left vs Right Post by MnSpring on 04/20/18 at 15:34:42 7B524F50584F514471524E497C4F49544E493D0 wrote:
Well then, Substitute the word, ‘Muslims’, for ’conservatives’. Because when ‘conservatives’, said, ‘Many Muslim refugees, are Terrorists, hiding inside a Trojan horse' OMG, did the $hit hit the Fan. But, NOW, it is perfectly OK, to say, “… NOT saying all conservatives show support for………” (Again Substitute the word, ‘Muslims’, for ’conservatives’) Wonder what changed ????? Or is it just, ANOTHER, example of, ‘I can but You can’t’. Given by the, Liberal/Ultra-Liberals. |
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