SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1528464825

Message started by Eegore on 06/08/18 at 06:33:45

Title: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by Eegore on 06/08/18 at 06:33:45

Specifically this will allow for the return of "pre-existing conditions" and insurance companies being able to cherry pick what they will cover for you and what they won't. Having worked in a medical center for over a decade I can say this was one of the major contributing factors to overall health issues in the US.

Insurance companies will love this, independent customers will most likely hate it as the insurance companies have been able to collect our health information for 9 years without the customer worrying if they would be covered.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/06/08/Justice-Department-wont-defend-Affordable-Care-Act-provisions-in-court/7521528423725/

I'm not inferring any opinion about Trump, Hillary, Obama or anyone else with this. The AFC wasn't perfect but I do believe that the old system was not working well either and some sort of change was needed or healthcare beyond basic clinic care would become essentially something only upper-tier incomes could afford. Similar to what was happening to auto insurance.

Anyone that knows anything about healthcare could see this was on the way once the individual mandate was removed.

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/08/18 at 07:33:34

The old system
Pre hmo
Worked, great

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by verslagen1 on 06/08/18 at 07:43:02

706F696E73744575457D6F63281A0 wrote:

The old system
Pre hmo
Worked, great

Provided you were insured from day 1.

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/08/18 at 07:52:34

It cost me, a mid twenties,single guy, around thirty or so bucks a month for BCBS. Lucky me, I bought it and in just a few months, I had to get my appendix out. Didn't cost me much o nothing.

I guess there's something to be said for being
Responsible and insured.
I'm aware of the problem with preexisting conditions. Can't really expect the insurance companies to write you a full coverage policy
After the wreck.

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by WebsterMark on 06/08/18 at 08:57:02

This is all Obama's fault. When he was elected, there was a mandate to do something with healthcare. He could have moved forward with smaller, incremental changes that would have done a lot to improve the situation and would still be with us today. instead, he took the partisan route and forced thru a program that failed in exactly the same manner a lot of people said it would.

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by Eegore on 06/08/18 at 12:03:37

Well I can't say the entire unaffordable healthcare issue in the US can fall on the shoulders of one man, let alone any one organization.

For instance the Joint Commission, a regulatory/compliance agency in healthcare (not mandatory) can delegate new procedures or compliance measures to health centers without responsibility to assess budget. In one compliance order they can, and have increased cost to organizations by millions of dollars annually (for instance all M-1 classified patients must have 1-1 24/7 staff presence) . Its completely up to someone else to figure out how a Joint Commission regulation can be achieved and funded. This is a terrible way to keep cost down.

Defensive medicine is a huge issue. When you go to an ED for treatment for a deep tissue laceration, you shouldn't be able to sue a med-center for millions because they didn't catch your diabetes - that you didn't know you had or have ever shown symptoms for. You were treated successfully and safely for the complaint you came in for, theres no reason for a full CBC, UA and cultures for a laceration that can be controlled and closed. If you get free services at a clinic you shouldn't be able to sue in my opinion.

Healthcare cost management has been failing for decades, and a big part of that is the patients themselves. As a system it would be hard to meet modern regulatory guidelines and legal protections by going back to an insurance model from the 80's. I think without legal reform we wont ever see medical costs become manageable by the average citizen.

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by LostArtist on 06/08/18 at 12:51:46

023037262130271834273E550 wrote:

yeah, healthcare costing astronomical prices, $50 for a tylenol is Obama's fault, Thanks Obama!

"who knew health care was so complicated?"

maybe the above was a bit snarky, sorry if it rubs anyone the wrong way

I agree, the AFC didn't really address the actual issue, insurance for the most part, is still a scam, insurance is NOT healthcare.

and maybe JOG is right, I don't know anything about the pre-HMO days, but were those days regulated out by the government? or did capitalistic forces of profit motive drive the change? I honestly don't know. But I think it's fair to say that as long as the only or maybe just the majority motive to provide healthcare is profit over actually caring for our fellow human beings, we'll just end up with over inflated prices, because what's more valuable to you than your health?

I'm not suggesting that doctors and hospitals shouldn't make money or be capped or anything like that, I'm not suggesting any solutions, but the middle man known as insurance, seems to be in co-hoots with the Dr., hospitals and Healthcare providers to extract money from US, without us even knowing the cost of anything up front so we can't even shop around if we wanted to, or if we could because of the shape we are often in when we seek healthcare.

Healthcare is a unique "product/service" due to it's immediate need and simple lack of transparency in pricing.

I'm not arguing if Healthcare is a right or not or any of that, just that is is innately unique so that maybe the free market isn't the most optimal way to deal with it. But yeah, government can totally screw it up too.

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/08/18 at 20:07:07

FREE MARKET
or
Government control

Are there other options?

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by Eegore on 06/08/18 at 20:40:00

If you want good healthcare there really arent other options for the US.

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/08/18 at 21:02:34

Bless your heart

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by Eegore on 06/08/18 at 21:49:54

I'm willing to hear suggestions, particularly ones that wont violate CMS and FSMB guidelines, that have proven with reliable peer reviewed data that work better.

Anyone can go back to "how it was" but they have to take the lower quality healthcare as well.

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/08/18 at 22:33:05

Anyone can go back to "how it was" but they have to take the lower quality healthcare as well.
Back to top

Really?
Says WHO?
Clever words
Explain why it's true.

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by Eegore on 06/09/18 at 06:31:42

Its a well know fact that healthcare now has more positive outcomes than it did three decades ago. That isnt exclusively due to technology, but also standards of practice and those standards now are cooperative with industry, and insurance.

Instead of focusing exclusively on rate of profit there are incentives for both insurance, and healthcare to focus on rate of health. Massive reductions in rate of infection for invasive procedures are due to insurance companies being part of the equation. Treatment and reduction in rates of diabetes has improved because people no longer have to hide it from their insurance. (This is countered unfortunately by a 5-fold increase in children due to poor diets) With selective treatment patients keep information from their doctors, because they have to keep it from their insurance as they can be dropped, have rates increased or simply have them told that their insurance wont cover X-symptoms or Y symptoms.

Instead of focusing only on maintaining a pool of healthy clients there is a focus on a healthy pool of clients. Both make money, but only one has proven to also increase health, instead of only increasing margins.

As for who theres literally thousands of documents from hundreds of insurance, and medical journals.

What part of selective treatment could possibly result in better healthcare?

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by Trippah on 06/09/18 at 06:51:44

There are so many factors: cost of training physicians, and to a slightly lessor degree NP's, PA's and RN's (do LPN's still exist?). Perhaps the government should take over this aspect so that incredible debt loads don't continue to drive up the costs. (They already do to some extent, subsidizing ed costs for years of military service)

Costs of medicine: very expensive for some, not at all for other med.
One of the thorniest issues - as research seems to costs lotsa money and often doesn't pan out, or the specific disease has so few victims it isn't profitable to pursue. The fact that we pay sometime 2-3 times as much as they do in Canada for the same pills suggest some free market exploitation is going on.

Liability and malpractice insurance is a hefty bill. If we choose, as a society, to forgo the right to sue a botched job then the costs of "medicine" will drop (much like no fault auto insurance) but perhaps only for a time. And as the medical world has been slow to discipline its own, we would lose one important quality control device.

Staffing: an enormous cost, all the office staff, practice managers, coders and billing staff, receptionist, nurses, ambo rides at 1K a trip (really??).

Tests - while it was suggested that treating only the ailment that brought you to the doctor, rather than seeking out and controlling the underlying cause is a short time cost reducer but I really believe a long time cost increaser. You bruise at a baseball game, go see the Doc. He puts on a plaster, gives you a pain pill. BUT, if he did the tests and found you had diabeties it would make a world of difference in the long run as you could modify food intakes, exercise and manage it with meds for a much longer and more productive life. Yet, doing a brain scan $2K for everyone who presents with dizziness blows a budget (especially during flu season yada yada)
and lastly the social responsibility - with almost half our population is so poor it doesn't pay income tax, do you think those people would be able to get to or afford medical care? In those rose colored olden days a doctor would write off the bill of patients who couldn't pay, but would do only the most basic things (set a broken bone e.g.) In today's world you are relegating half the population to poor living, early dying and REALLY much less productivity -a key point until the robots take over!

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by Eegore on 06/09/18 at 08:44:22

Theres more of a push for NP's over LPNs now.

You are right though, healthcare is an outstandingly complex situation. Everything from cost to become a provider to legal protections, to local demographics comes into play. There is no easy answer, but as I see it the industry watched itself almost implode, and thats due to many factors, not one guy, not one congressional ruling.

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by Serowbot on 06/09/18 at 13:59:18

Trump is out to destroy it. Not because it's good or bad, but because Obama did it.
What we need is for someone to fix it.
Americans by a majority know that it's not good the way it is,.. and they want it fixed,.. not destroyed.

Trump was for a national health until Obama did it.
Do we need such a petty, vengeful, egotist running this country?...
It'll get fixed when he's out... until then, people will die, and families will be bankrupted.

Is it great yet?... :-?

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by MnSpring on 06/09/18 at 14:12:15

1107100D15000D16620 wrote:

"... and families will be bankrupted.

Na, that will never happen.
Socialism will kick in long before that.

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/09/18 at 14:31:46

because it's good or bad, but because Obama did it.

Ohhh, Gawd..

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by Eegore on 06/10/18 at 08:36:17

Well is it really possible to say that the current administration isn't out to completely dismantle the ACA? It is going away, and I for one don't have a lot of hope for letting insurance be the primary driving force on affordability or outcomes of care.

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/10/18 at 09:36:59

I don't fight a fire because I dislike the idiot who started it.
It's a Fire and it needs put out.

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by MnSpring on 06/13/18 at 07:49:50

Seems A.I. will work for flipping Burgers.
But not some other things.
Wonder if it has anything to do with a Union ?

https://gizmodo.com/robot-anesthesiologists-lose-their-jobs-because-of-huma-1767844468

"A robot anesthesiologist designed by Johnson & Johnson is going off the market. Only three years after approval, the company has stopped production on the Sedasys machine due to poor sales.

The Sedasys machine was designed to provide anesthetic to patients undergoing routine surgeries. The American Society of Anesthesiologists was especially alarmed because anesthesiology is one of the riskier aspects of many surgeries. The machine, which administered the drugs while monitoring the patient’s vital signs, was originally considered for use on a number of surgeries.

Johnson & Johnson agreed to use it only for procedures like endoscopies, colonoscopies, and esophagogastroduodenoscopy. By mid-2015 it was being used in four hospitals. Apparently, that was not enough to justify its continued manufacture.

It’s always unsettling to think that a robot could put a whole profession out of a job—especially when that profession involves years of training and expensive education. Apparently, no one is entirely safe. On the other hand, more and more people are facing astoundingly high healthcare costs. The Sedasys system cost one tenth as much, per procedure, as a human anesthesiologist."

Just in case you missed it:
"... The Sedasys system cost one tenth as much, per procedure, as a human anesthesiologist...."

Title: Re: DOJ no longer enforcing Affordable Care Act
Post by Eegore on 06/13/18 at 11:52:30

I never got to see a Sedasys but I have seen DaVinci in use.

https://www.davincisurgerycommunity.com/

DaVinci is not cheaper per procedure.