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Message started by eau de sauvage on 06/12/18 at 07:20:01

Title: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by eau de sauvage on 06/12/18 at 07:20:01

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/opinion/trump-kim-summit-north-korea.html

Honk if you're surprised. Donald is a legend in his own lunchtime.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by Serowbot on 06/12/18 at 07:28:33

Yuge win.... for NK... :-?

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/12/18 at 08:25:31

Considering how difficult it is to get the left to see the obvious, that you would see stopping war games as a win for Anyone but us is not surprising.
Isn't it odd how much you stood against a military parade, because of cost and optics, yet STOPPING a YUGE waste of money and the continued bullying, threatening and posturing is Somehow a loss. Wow,

Legitimacy is something to concede if you want to work WITH someone.
Otherwise, you're Dictating terms.
That's not what negotiation is.

If Obama had done it, you'd all be orgasmically spasming on the floor.

All the Bullshit about what a bully Trump is,, and when he's not, you're critical.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5834437/They-great-beaches-Trump-showed-Kim-iPad-video-North-Koreas-future.html

Here's how change is fostered. If you think it's all done and results should be manifested and we can see the end of the deal, you're ignorant of how things work.

This is gonna take time.
And Trump is making YUGE steps toward your future being more prosperous and fewer reasons for military intervention.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by eau de sauvage on 06/12/18 at 09:39:37

@JoG,

Glad you enjoy being taken for a fool. N.Korea has been demanding that the US stop the joint military manoeuvres for years. The US has has conceded everything and received nothing in return other complete humiliation by your buffoon of a president. Lot's more fun to come yet. Donald's pathetic posturing is simply for the hometown fools to lap up.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/12/trump-kim-meeting-what-happened-637545

The joint statement notably did not feature the phrase “complete, verifiable, irreversible, denuclearization” (or “dismantlement”), which Secretary of State Mike Pompeo had previously suggested was nonnegotiable.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/trump-kim-summit-ends-with-historic-photo-op-but-few-specifics.html

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/12/18 at 09:45:21

How do you get that?
Trump is the best president of my life, bar none. Your inability to see what he is doing doesn't Change anything.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by eau de sauvage on 06/12/18 at 09:47:03

504F494E53546555655D4F43083A0 wrote:

How do you get that?
Trump is the best president of my life, bar none. Your inability to see what he is doing doesn't Change anything.

Oh I get it now. I've genuinely been taking you seriously, fool me. Good one JoG you had me hook line and sinker. Tip o' the hat. Had you not gone pushed it so far on that last post you'd have been able to keep me going for a lot longer.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by raydawg on 06/12/18 at 09:47:58

Jog, as you know I work for Boeing, but not much longer ;D

It is a HUGE company, huge.....
Its holding are vast and wide, across all spectrum's of economic development and investments.

I can't divulge too much, but what I will say here is public knowledge.
Economic growth for the next 20 years, will come from Asia.
This area of the world will drive prosperity to anybody engaged, and invested, in this expansion.

Europe was yesterday, and will not rise to such a opportunity, a poor choice to put your eggs.
They created their problems via shared misery, hoping a common currency would solve their riddle....
As well as favorable trade treaties.
It can't, it won't, because they refuse to change with the times.

A peaceful Korean Peninsula is NOT a threat to us, no, but will in effect release more resources to invest in capitalism, instead of cold war industries, that can provide a windfall and funding for many social programs at home, and abroad.....

Peace, is always a good thing.....
Not sure how folks can square it in their minds, otherwise.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/12/18 at 09:52:52

The money wasted, the impact on the psyche of the people who are living a world sitting on a powder keg, the difference that eliminating some of that and opening a new area to growth,

Yeah, got played.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by raydawg on 06/12/18 at 10:42:47

534C4A4D50576656665E4C400B390 wrote:

You know I have been enflunced by the opportunity to work with many, many people from Asia.
I got a chance to interact with them in a manner that those who read a article, based solely on promoting a already held belief, will never have the benefit of such.
I met folks from these areas, to learn more about their aircraft service, and I have friends who are there, on 3 years gigs, who share with me their experiences.....
Coming to any conclusion based on ignorance of facts, is risky business.
Uttering proganda based on stupidity, is a fools business ;)

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by Trippah on 06/12/18 at 13:13:46

Rawdawg - your comments are, in a interesting time warp, exactly what Nixon said about China. So far, its China 1, USA 0. Next will be Korea 1, USA 0 ??

But wait, wasn't Nixon the Great President? :)

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by LostArtist on 06/12/18 at 13:26:31

445B5D5A4740714171495B571C2E0 wrote:

But, okay, I haven't read the deal or anything, and I'm not very up to speed on this whole thing, but what have the North Korean's given up? They still have nukes. Their threat is still very very real to South Korea, and to US, but now South Korea can't train with us to help protect themselves? South Korea doesn't have nukes, we do, but will we really use them to defend South Korea?

The impact seems to be we are abandoning our South Korean allies.

What has North Korea done or committed to suggest that they actually want peace?

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by verslagen1 on 06/12/18 at 13:32:49

Have we dropped a pallet load of cash on NK yet?

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by Trippah on 06/12/18 at 13:36:24

Actually, I forgot Vietnam (ho ho ho) so its Asia 2 USA 0 so far although if the LSS has promised not to shoot back if North Korea annexes South Korea (Sort of like the wink wink nod agreement the US had with Russia over the Crimea.) Perhaps soon it will be Asia 3 USA 0. Well time will tell (or so they say.) Do you think this is why Donald has been weakening our traditional military ties?

In reality, I don't know if a united communist Korea is considered by Russia a good thing (a potential threat to China) or not.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by WebsterMark on 06/12/18 at 13:40:33

Anyone proclaiming this deal a failure is being foolish. No one knows the long term success or failure at this point. No one.

All we know right now is a deal was struck that if followed through on by both parties, could only be classified as an overwhelming success. But that waits to be seen.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by raydawg on 06/12/18 at 13:41:47

7F59425B5B4A432B0 wrote:

Today is the present.....
Context is everything.
Elections have consequences.

Some might say, Trump 1, liberals 0
Even after they tried to buy peace.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by LostArtist on 06/12/18 at 13:43:38

704245545342556A46554C270 wrote:

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by WebsterMark on 06/12/18 at 14:06:54

I don't think so Lost. If Kim doesn't change, he's toast, he has to know that. Someone in his own country will probably try to kill him and might be successful. Maybe he's looking at the rest of the world and decided he wants to be part of it.

I also think he's afraid of what Trump will do to him. I think it's possible Kim sees Trump as someone who will say 'fine, if you don't dismantle, I'll do it for you'.

Or maybe Kim knows the truth about his own nuclear program. Maybe he knows he's a long way from making it work and even if he does, it won't be enough to actually do anything. Maybe he's afraid if Trump and the west decide to preemptively attack him, he'll be exposed as another Saddam. Full of talk but with nothing to back him up. You think the NK army is going to die for him? I think it might be pretty hard to keep the true picture of what's going on away from the population of NK. One benefit of the information age.

So if true, perhaps Kim 'bluffed' Trump and says he'll give something up he never really had. Either way, the US and the world, wins. NK slowly starts the process to turn itself into a valid country on the world stage.
Kim gets to remain dictator and has a little higher comfort level.

Hey, I'm just guessing, but that's all any of us can do at this point.

I just think it's a display of absolute partisanship to be anything other than pleased with the outcome so far.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by MnSpring on 06/12/18 at 14:14:02

50425655424446230 wrote:

So this, lack of ability to see the Trees, And, the Forrest,
comes from someone who is a Subject.
Who gleefully surrendered the last remains of Freedom.
Who lives in a country that, Does NOT have, the equivalent of the 1st & 2nd.

One who cannot talk smack, about the country he is a Subject of.
Or the P.M., controlling the country he is a subject of.
Or, ‘elected’, officials of the country he is a subject of.
The same way, to the same depth, and the same total lack of respect,
which he talks about another Country.

Is, for me, simply not a person,
which is to be taken seriously.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by Trippah on 06/12/18 at 14:43:37

It will be interesting to watch, if anything comes out of this deal. To most of the world, I suspect it looks like Trump could have saved a few millions and mailed Kim a white towel.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/12/18 at 14:48:35

75564A4D784B4D504A4D390 wrote:

[quote author=704245545342556A46554C270 link=1528813201/0#13 date=1528836033]Anyone proclaiming this deal a failure is being foolish. No one knows the long term success or failure at this point. No one.

All we know right now is a deal was struck that if followed through on by both parties, could only be classified as an overwhelming success. But that waits to be seen.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by LostArtist on 06/12/18 at 15:37:13

427077666170675874677E150 wrote:

Why'd he be toast? He just achieved equality with a US president. He got the US president to say he'll stop military actions. He just WON huge.

Why would Kim be afraid of Trump, Kim just MADE Trump concede to KIM.

NK doesn't have the information age. WTH are you talking about? They do have nukes, WE'VE confirmed that.

"I just think it's a display of absolute partisanship to be anything other than pleased with the outcome so far. "
That is possibly the most PARTISAN statement I've ever seen. Tell me about this outcome. What actually has happened?

We've stepped back from an ally to appease NK. right? idk... and all that took was Trump, legitimizing NK on his level...

heck, at this rate, Iran should have never talked to us. They should have kept going with their nuclear program, gotten some nukes, made some actual threats, maybe a few missiles shot at Israel, then gotten Trump to back down from his war-mongering "fire and fury" rhetoric and abandon Jerusalem so that they get to keep their nuclear weapons.... wait, what? yup

Hopefully NK will actually follow through with these unenforced suggestions and there will be peace with a denuclearized NK... but if having nukes is what made NK able to negotiate with a US president directly... then why'd they give them up?

Listen, I want peace too, and I'm glad Kim is talking instead of firing missiles to get attention, so for that I give Trump credit, but for this photo op, that Kim can take to his people and use to say "Look, I brought America to ME." idk, I hope this ends well, but I'm not counting any chickens yet.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by LostArtist on 06/12/18 at 15:46:46

213E383F22251424142C3E32794B0 wrote:

[quote author=75564A4D784B4D504A4D390 link=1528813201/15#15 date=1528836218][quote author=704245545342556A46554C270 link=1528813201/0#13 date=1528836033]Anyone proclaiming this deal a failure is being foolish. No one knows the long term success or failure at this point. No one.

All we know right now is a deal was struck that if followed through on by both parties, could only be classified as an overwhelming success. But that waits to be seen.

From what I've heard, there is no reason either side should abide by any part of the "deal" made. There's no enforcement to it.

Good photo op for North Korea though, Kim is equal to Trump in their eyes now.[/quote]

Trump tacitly offered Kim a future of growth. Kim spitting on that is foolish.
Not EVERYTHING has to BE enforceable.
People Go in a direction that is more beneficial to Them.
Trump OFFERED a better future for them.
It's a better future for us and the world, too.
V
Played, LOL..

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/asia/singapore-summit-intl/index.html?ref=hvper.com&utm_source=hvper.com&utm_medium=website

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/asia/singapore-summit-intl/index.html?ref=hvper.com&utm_source=hvper.com&utm_medium=website
[/quote]

I hope it works out, I do, but celebrating now is premature, that's it. Nothing has actually happened.

Conservatives ripped up a deal with Iran because it had a strong trust but verify element (sure that may have cost us giving Iran some of their own money back...) but are down right praising this deal with NK that has a loose handshake...

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by WebsterMark on 06/12/18 at 15:52:32

idk, I hope this ends well, but I'm not counting any chickens yet.

All your comments indicate you have in fact counted your chickens and you've already proclaimed them as dead.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by LostArtist on 06/12/18 at 16:02:06

192B2C3D3A2B3C032F3C254E0 wrote:

idk, I hope this ends well, but I'm not counting any chickens yet.

All your comments indicate you have in fact counted your chickens and you've already proclaimed them as dead.

whatever, you've judged me and found me wanting a long time ago. I'm not the one here trying to prop up some deal that while it may start some good dialogue, has really not done anything yet.... I really am quite neutral on this deal, it seems to be having some good effects so far, but will it last or actually lead to denuclearization, idk, and nothing indicates that it will

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by eau de sauvage on 06/12/18 at 21:29:45

Are you able to state what has been achieved. It is a failure but it could not have been otherwise, the entire exercise is a sham by two political opportunists, the only difference is the the N.Korean population have an excuse for their ignorance.

1A282F3E39283F002C3F264D0 wrote:

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by eau de sauvage on 06/12/18 at 21:45:55

The only thing 'achieved' is the signing of a document with a 'promise' to denuclearise. A promise that N.Korea has made many times in the past and has never kept. In return for more of the same broken promises, Kim gets to reinforce his dictatorial powers over the world's most impoverished country. The world's most brutal dictator. And this is good for Donald because so many of those who vote for Trump are imbeciles. Or evangelical hypocrites, and believe or pretend to believe black is white to further their own aim. Some are just bitter and want the world to pay, others like the evangelicals couldn't give a rat's ass about anything as long as the can abuse women, stop abortion and oppress minorities. Way to go America.

Donald is perfectly content to walk away with the same promise from Kim that's previously always been broken, while at the same time trashing the Iran deal that achieved genuine denuking, with 100% verifiability.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by WebsterMark on 06/13/18 at 03:49:59

Some are just bitter and want the world to pay, others like the evangelicals couldn't give a rat's ass about anything as long as the can abuse women, stop abortion and oppress minorities. Way to go America.

An utterly ridiculous statement.

Donald is perfectly content to walk away with the same promise from Kim that's previously always been broken, while at the same time trashing the Iran deal that achieved genuine denuking, with 100% verifiability.

Likewise, an utterly ridiculous statement.

Both are completely fictitious.

And the Iran deal had time to show it was not achieving anywhere neat its goals. If 3 years from now this has done nothing like the Iran deal, dump it.

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by WebsterMark on 06/13/18 at 04:19:04

very fair article.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/inside-trumps-gamble-on-a-portly-genocidal-millennial

Title: Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Post by LostArtist on 06/13/18 at 14:21:47

350700111607102F031009620 wrote:

very fair article.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/inside-trumps-gamble-on-a-portly-genocidal-millennial

I agree