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General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Overturning Rowe v Wade
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Message started by Eegore on 07/03/18 at 06:53:02

Title: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by Eegore on 07/03/18 at 06:53:02

I was wanting to get some opinions regarding the impact of making abortion illegal in the US.

Specifics:

How would laws be enforced?

Should it be Federally enforced similar to drug crimes (minus marijuana as we can see how that worked out) or other crime?

Where would women be incarcerated for attempting/completing the abortion of their own fetus?

How to mitigate the abundance of pill-based abortion methods given the difficulty in enforcing current drug laws.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by Eegore on 07/03/18 at 07:05:21

Personally I'm not convinced that theres enough information, or funding to efficiently enforce making abortion illegal. I feel it would be a "feel good law" that would exist but not be enforced well, however it would pull taxpayer money from funding abortion clinics etc.

Enforcement would be the pulling of public funds, and the closure of facilities/clinics however I feel that's the only "easy" part.

Taxpayer funds saved from any public clinic operations would have to go to federal prison/detention programs to help fund the mass incarcerations of females attempting abortion. These facilities will have to be modified to a degree to support, or transport inmates to medical centers for OBGYN procedures. Also isolation and monitoring for those willing to attempt aborting a fetus in prison, and the hiring of more counselors and psychologists to provide support.

Additional legal funding to help challenge the lawsuits from families/organizations that will sue for incarcerating their pregnant family member, or for the medical costs associated with non-medical abortion techniques and suicide attempts while incarcerated. A process for either keeping children with incarcerated mothers, or placing the children into appropriate care, similar to what's done now but on a larger and preferable more efficient scale.

Dealers of abortion drugs and underground clinics will have to be found, prosecuted and incarcerated.

Additional resources committed to the DEA to research and mitigate the mass introduction of abortion drugs that already exist, and the impending addition of more that will hit the black market. Undercover agents, support teams and FDA alignment for testing of recovered paraphernalia will be needed.

Media representation and potential funding for communities affected by protests.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by WebsterMark on 07/03/18 at 07:35:42

That paste is out of the tube and not going back in. Ireland just legalized abortion so the odds of a nation going that far in the opposite direction is doubtful.

Churches are opening their doors (Sanctuary Churches) for illegal aliens, but if abortion were outlawed, liberal churches would abort babies on their alters if that's what it took to keep the divide between left and right alive.

At best, given the recent union funding ruling, I think we'll see taxpayer funding go away. Planned Parenthood for example will have to split off their money making abortion clinics from their other services. Not just on paper as they do now which allows them to use government funding, but I could see a ruling that requires separate facilities.

We could see a few more common sense restrictions like laws that prevent killing off Downs children and restrictions on killing designer babies that don't test well in the womb, but I can't see much more than that being practical.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by raydawg on 07/03/18 at 08:35:05

I too do not believe it will muster enough support to be overturned.
I see restriction on funding, etc, but no way a LATE TERM ABORTION to abortion.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by MnSpring on 07/03/18 at 08:50:21

Many people, believe that, Killing a baby, because it is not yet born, is, Killing a Human.
YET, many that believe, in not believing, believe, killing a un-born baby is OK.

The, Legal killing of a unborn Baby, will not be reversed.
In fact killing a unborn Baby, Was, MADE legal, because their were SO many doing it anyway.
(Just like marijuana)

So, some woman wants to Kill her Son or Daughter, that’s on her.
She is the one that has to live with the guilt.
She is the one that will have to answer to a greater power someday.

Just that, I don’t have to PAY for it !

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by Eegore on 07/03/18 at 08:59:46

"At best, given the recent union funding ruling, I think we'll see taxpayer funding go away. Planned Parenthood for example will have to split off their money making abortion clinics from their other services. Not just on paper as they do now which allows them to use government funding, but I could see a ruling that requires separate facilities."

I can see something like this happening.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by raydawg on 07/03/18 at 09:36:11

4B6B69617C6B0E0 wrote:

What you are seeing, I believe, is the failure of democracy.....

In a sense one party tribalism, is failing, producing more tribalism, in its place.
When democracy was expected to do, what it was never intended, you could see the writing on the wall.

Socialism, and Communism, and most governing powers fail, when those invested to govern fairly, and just, ensure their own prosperity, first.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by MShipley on 07/03/18 at 10:31:50

As you have figured out I am very conservative and very Pro-life. However, even I do not think you can OUTLAW abortion. While a more conservative court may chip away at some of the funding and late term type issues I do not believe it will ever become Illegal nor should it.
The problem is not a law issue! it is a heart issue. I stated yesterday on another post that Worldviews have consequences. Science and the courts declared unborn life as not human. The consequences are that over a thousand children are killed every day. Think about that for a minute!

We are outraged at kids dying in school shootings, people killing each other in the street, kids separated from their parents, and we rightfully should be. Do you know how they do abortions? They rip the arms and legs off the bodies, sometimes they drill holes in their heads and suck the brains out. It is a barbaric practice that none of use would perform on our dogs.

OK, I will shut up now.

Very sad.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by Trippah on 07/03/18 at 10:54:10

Can you just see it - Customs agents at every little airport checking the pregnancy status of every little rich girl going to Switzerland for a "vacation" oh no, that would embarrass the wealthy, better not.

Better still, lets have big posters on every government building you know the one "Keep em barefoot and Pregnant" cause women aren't people, they are property.

And who will support all these little wonders - not the one night stand daddies - no, the tax payers. You think welfare rolls are huge now, just wait. And in 6 years, the school budgets will be blown out of the water.

Should play out very interestingly.. ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by LostArtist on 07/03/18 at 14:38:18

615354454253447B57445D360 wrote:

That paste is out of the tube and not going back in. Ireland just legalized abortion so the odds of a nation going that far in the opposite direction is doubtful.

Churches are opening their doors (Sanctuary Churches) for illegal aliens, but if abortion were outlawed, liberal churches would abort babies on their alters if that's what it took to keep the divide between left and right alive.

seriously???

At best, given the recent union funding ruling, I think we'll see taxpayer funding go away. Planned Parenthood for example will have to split off their money making abortion clinics from their other services. Not just on paper as they do now which allows them to use government funding, but I could see a ruling that requires separate facilities.

We could see a few more common sense restrictions like laws that prevent killing off Downs children and restrictions on killing designer babies that don't test well in the womb, but I can't see much more than that being practical.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by WebsterMark on 07/05/18 at 05:42:52

Churches are opening their doors (Sanctuary Churches) for illegal aliens, but if abortion were outlawed, liberal churches would abort babies on their alters if that's what it took to keep the divide between left and right alive.

seriously???

Do I seriously believe a Church would put an abortion table on their Alter? No. Hyperbole.

Do I seriously believe a Church would offer a room in it's facility for abortions if the State outlawed them and a Church had reason to believe law enforcement would not enter a Church to enforce the law ? Absolutely. Without question.

You have to understand the reality Lost; liberal Churches have deleted the historical person of Jesus Christ and replaced him with someone who fits their political ideology.

When the historical beliefs and actions of Christianity and liberalism clash, historical Christianity looses.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by Eegore on 07/05/18 at 06:11:46

"You have to understand the reality Lost; liberal Churches have deleted the historical person of Jesus Christ and replaced him with someone who fits their political ideology.

When the historical beliefs and actions of Christianity and liberalism clash, historical Christianity looses."

Isnt that what churches do all the time? Look at the Vatican's history.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by Trippah on 07/05/18 at 06:21:15

and you think the Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and the Jones Bros weren't doctored to meet the perceived needs of their times? How is the gullibility channel these days?

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by WebsterMark on 07/05/18 at 06:40:19

4666646C7166030 wrote:

To the degree they are doing today? No.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by WebsterMark on 07/05/18 at 06:52:07

4C6A7168687970180 wrote:

and you think the Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and the Jones Bros weren't doctored to meet the perceived needs of their times? How is the gullibility channel these days?

I have no idea how the gullibility channel is, I don't watch it.

And if they were doctored to meet the perceived needs of the time, why were they all martyred? The Gospel of Jesus Christ directly opposed the powers of the time. They stood against the historical power structure. Jesus was killed because he threaten the leaders of his day.

In that sense, it would be easy to say the liberal churches of today are doing the same as Jesus did back then. They are standing against the powers that be today just as he did back then.

The difference is today's liberal Churches deny the Godhood of Jesus. He was just a man, not a God. We had a visiting preacher from a very liberal church tell us in her view, Jesus was schooled by the woman at the well because he was trapped in a male dominated view and was unable to see her as an individual person. He was just a man in a man's world.
If I thought that were true, I'd never go to Church again. Why would you go to Church to worship a man? There are lots of men I'd rather worship. I'd rather play golf on Sunday mornings and worship Tiger Woods.

But yes, liberal churches would indeed open their facilities to abortionist if needed.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/05/18 at 07:36:06

We had a visiting preacher from a very liberal church tell us in her view, Jesus was schooled by the woman at the well because he was trapped in a male dominated view and was unable to see her as an individual person. He was just a man in a man's world.

If her face rattled for more than three minutes I would have been gone. I'm not willing to listen to idiots.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by WebsterMark on 07/05/18 at 08:02:37

The really fascinating thing about that visit is that most of the members lean left, some strongly.

However, almost everyone said they would never have her back, that she was wrong in her interpretation. Despite our political difference, and they are as great in my church as they are on this motorcycle forum, we were basically united in the fact she had pushed Christianity aside to accommodate political beliefs.

Note: the only significant holdout to this was a college aged, strongly liberal girl majoring in journalism. No kidding.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by Serowbot on 07/05/18 at 08:11:54

665453424554437C50435A310 wrote:

If I thought that were true, I'd never go to Church again. Why would you go to Church to worship a man? There are lots of men I'd rather worship. I'd rather play golf on Sunday mornings and worship Tiger Woods.

The conundrum here is that Jesus is worshipped for his sacrifice... The Passion...
If he was a god and not just a man,... where is the sacrifice?...
A god knows he is immortal,... there is no sacrifice to dying if you are an immortal being.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by WebsterMark on 07/05/18 at 08:35:12

Christianity is based on the Incarnation of God as man in the form of Jesus Christ. The suffering of the Passion was as real as if you or I went through it.

To your question, yes, Christ knew his spirit is immortal and that his earthly suffering was temporary. Real, but temporary.

So the flip side of your conundrum is: as a God, why go through that at all? Why spit yourself into multiple 'pieces', condescend to humanity and genuinely suffer? Unless, (for whatever mysterious reason that eludes me for sure) a sacrifice, a redeemer for mankind was needed.

It makes no logical sense, I agree. A religion that is based on following a clearly defined set of rules where rewards are handed out based on good deeds out-weighing bad deeds seems more logical.

But Christianity is not logical. Putting it into practice means trying to follow logic, but as you've often pointed out, that fails often. You only have to look at the history of the Catholic Church to prove that.

But the Passion is not based on logic. It's supernatural, spiritual; unable to be easily pinned down.

That's the best I can describe.

Title: Re: Overturning Rowe v Wade
Post by MShipley on 07/05/18 at 11:27:59

7D5B4059594841290 wrote:

and you think the Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and the Jones Bros weren't doctored to meet the perceived needs of their times? How is the gullibility channel these days?

It seems to me the gullibility channel is doing just fine when I hear statements like this. The gospels are the most scrutinized books in history, in fact the entire bible is. It is the most documented piece of literature in all antiquity.