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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Security clearance revoked by President Trump /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1534459698 Message started by Eegore on 08/16/18 at 15:48:18 |
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Title: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by Eegore on 08/16/18 at 15:48:18 What do you guys think about the term "erratic" being used as a primary reason for revoking a security clearance? This particular case is unprecedented as the individual in question has been charged with nothing, and other than exclusively using the term "erratic" and "increasingly frenzied commentary,” there has been no indication of any violation in the terms of holding such a clearance. I find it interesting as I hold security clearance and have had it during periods of time between jobs, I am very aware of what's involved. I can't find anything that points to this decision being anything more than a warning to others to not speak negatively. Has anyone else? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/15/us/politics/john-brennan-security-clearance.html "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” — Theodore Roosevelt |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by Serowbot on 08/16/18 at 16:04:14 Trump is trying to revoke Teddy's security clearance as we speak... ;D Bin Laden raid commander to Trump: revoke my security clearance too [AFP] https://www.yahoo.com/news/bin-laden-raid-commander-trump-revoke-security-clearance-195909346.html ""Few Americans have done more to protect this country than John," McRaven said. "He is a man of unparalleled integrity, whose honesty and character have never been in question, except by those who don't know him." "Therefore, I would consider it an honor if you would revoke my security clearance as well, so I can add my name to the list of men and women who have spoken up against your presidency," he said." |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by MnSpring on 08/16/18 at 16:11:01 2 things. If, indeed it is, ’silencing/punishing’, for speaking out against him. It is a bad thing. Just as bad, as when Obama, sent the IRS, on people who did not believe in him. (Yet not nearly as public, and very, hushed up) If it it not a violation of the 1st, than a, ‘Clue’, is the accusers, using the word, ‘Clue’, in talking about possibilities of why it was done. Which is it, to early to tell. We know 80+% of the media will blow this up. I believe it is better to find out the truth. And, nytimes.com, is NOT well known for telling the Truth ! |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by Serowbot on 08/16/18 at 16:19:04 6D4E735052494E47200 wrote:
He's already put out an "enemies list" of people he's threatening to revoke security clearances from. You need more?... If it were Obama you wouldn't. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by MnSpring on 08/16/18 at 16:34:09 2A3C2B362E3B362D590 wrote:
(T&T will be proud I used the word, “…Proof…” !) Where is your, “Proof’, that Trump has called a list, a, “enemies list” ? And, if it is, targeting, exactly HOW, is that worse, than Obama doing the Same Thing, when he used the IRS ? I’ll wait until the spinning media gets tired of this story, or until another one comes along. (Maybe a he/she called TT will publish a Manifesto on how to reduce 70% of elect production in the US) Then I will see what falls out. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by T And T Garage on 08/16/18 at 17:09:23 7C5F624143585F56310 wrote:
(T&T will be proud I used the word, “…Proof…” !) Where is your, “Proof’, that Trump has called a list, a, “enemies list” ? And, if it is, targeting, exactly HOW, is that worse, than Obama doing the Same Thing, when he used the IRS ? I’ll wait until the spinning media gets tired of this story, or until another one comes along. (Maybe a he/she called TT will publish a Manifesto on how to reduce 70% of elect production in the US) Then I will see what falls out. [/quote] Why do you feel the need to call me out on other threads? What's this thread got to do with "elect production"? |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/16/18 at 18:00:29 Why does America need people who are no longer part of the government to continue to have such clearances? |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by T And T Garage on 08/16/18 at 19:14:54 504F494E53546555655D4F43083A0 wrote:
In the private sector, a high security clearance is a golden ticket. Defense companies pay out the nose for people like that. Our president is just being petty (as usual) and hobbling former administration staff is just par for the course. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by Eegore on 08/16/18 at 19:38:30 "Why does America need people who are no longer part of the government to continue to have such clearances?" Depends on the clearance. A lot of people will be called back in over the years for deposition, consult and similar. Many will do this voluntarily. To pull a clearance immediately upon retirement means a full re-issue must commence if they are ever asked to testify, look at, or in any way use any of the information they had access to over their career. I have been called in to consult on activities that took place as far back as 2002. The time and cost of re-issue is not worth it as there are already legal ramifications for abuse. The issue here is that there is no abuse claimed by anyone, even the White House indicates that it has to do with personal statements and not crime. The President just doesn't like the guy's personal opinions and is using it as leverage from what I can tell from his personal statements on the issue. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/16/18 at 20:20:26 I don't know enough about it to really have much of an opinion. Questions, yeah.. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by WebsterMark on 08/17/18 at 10:19:11 If you have high level security, you get to keep it for a while in case the new administration needs information from you to continue a course of action. However, when an ex CIA chief goes on talk shows sounding like Rachael Maddow, you clearly can’t be trusted to give sound council so you lose clearance. Pretty simple. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by LostArtist on 08/17/18 at 12:34:25 546661707766714E627168030 wrote:
-------- and there you go, partisan tripe.... Cause Fox News has shows 100 times worse |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by Eegore on 08/17/18 at 14:08:38 What part of acting like Rachel Maddow reduces ones ability to testify of the job they did when they were employed as CIA director? What advantage does threatening other staff have from a national security level? Not supporting the President is not a national security issue. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/17/18 at 15:34:37 Not supporting Versus Working to undermine.. Some difference |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by Eegore on 08/17/18 at 16:27:16 I agree but the WH will not use those terms, I imagine because in order to do so they must define how. Undermine is not what they are saying, they are saying erratic. What is he doing that is illegal, or a security risk? |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by Serowbot on 08/17/18 at 16:43:12 58787A726F781D0 wrote:
Nothing... That's the point. Quote:
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by LostArtist on 08/18/18 at 00:23:52 587B4665677C7B72150 wrote:
too early to tell?? have you no judge of character? He's outwardly attacked EVERY critic of his from the podium of his rallies AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, when Obama criticized Fox News it was with very measured tones, with Trump it's "FAKE NEWS" "ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE" all the while praising Putin who KILLS journalists.... You've got to be kidding me if for one instance you think this is at ALL acceptable.. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by LostArtist on 08/18/18 at 00:35:26 495650574A4D7C4C7C44565A11230 wrote:
---------- so should Conservative critics of Obama have been punished for their work to undermine Obama, the birthers, the crazy right wing radio show hosts, FOX NEWS all worked day in and day out to discredit and undermine Obama's administration to the point they made fun of Obama's clothing... They also criticized Obama as being and egomaniac and a communist and a myriad of other LIES just to get attention from people LIKE YOU... Did Obama take action against the FBI agents when Guliani went on Fox News time and time again saying he had FBI agents telling him secret things about how Obama was messing up?? and don't give me your conspiracy theory BS about Obama phone tapping a Fox News' reporter https://apnews.com/b89a121c72794bcfbfcc92e9299d7e0f "But Rosen, during a Fox appearance Sunday, corrected his own anchor, saying phones he used for reporting were not eavesdropped upon. Rather, Holder sought and got a judge’s permission to look through records of Rosen’s phone calls and emails from 2009 as the government sought to identify the leaker for a Rosen story about North Korea." Sounds like due process was used there... |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by WebsterMark on 08/18/18 at 04:31:14 4D6D6F677A6D080 wrote:
Okay here, if you went on talk shows and started talking like Sean Hannity, you deserve to lose your security clearance. I believe both statements are true. I picked Maddow cause Brennan was sounding just like her. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by WebsterMark on 08/18/18 at 04:34:52 ......and maybe be Obama should have revoked security status of some of those people. The reality is, Obama wouldn't be asking Michale Flynn's opinion (remember him?) anymore than Trump would ask for Brennan's opinion. This is not a serious or major issue other than for news shows. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by Serowbot on 08/18/18 at 07:00:09 All of these actions Trump is taking, only serve to support the case that he is interfering in investigations and prosecutions... |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by Eegore on 08/18/18 at 08:37:19 "Okay here, if you went on talk shows and started talking like Sean Hannity, you deserve to lose your security clearance. I believe both statements are true." That's not true. I have held a security clearance for 18 years, and I can talk like Sean Hannity all I want unless I disclose or compromise the information I have access to, or jeopardize national security. SC's are about access and intel, not about your political stance. Just because I make you angry doesn't mean you can use me as an example to others, and that's what this looks like. Its an issue because this has never been done before. Taking away a resource as leverage against spoken opinion is not what the revocation of SC is for. "The reality is, Obama wouldn't be asking Michale Flynn's opinion (remember him?) anymore than Trump would ask for Brennan's opinion." SC is not about providing opinions exclusively to the President, national offices utilize intel across the spectrum, and deposing staff years later is not uncommon. Taking away intel resources because you specifically don't like those people is a potential risk, or at a minimum additional taxpayer cost, and petty. This isn't as compartmentalized and simple as saying the President won't call people in for opinions. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by WebsterMark on 08/19/18 at 05:39:43 5147504D55404D56220 wrote:
That's one view. The other is he is not. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by raydawg on 08/19/18 at 08:35:29 340601101706112E021108630 wrote:
That's one view. The other is he is not. [/quote] Really, fine...... Then all of Hillary’s actions of scrubbing emails, etc, Bill meeting with the AG who WAS investigating the matter, who had to recuse herself, means Hillary was guilty then, fine. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by Eegore on 08/19/18 at 08:52:14 Lets not forget Nixon if we are going to always bring up other people to compare to Trump since that somehow changes how we are to perceive his actions today. If I am late to work and I say Hillary is late to work more than me, that doesn't make me less late to work. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by raydawg on 08/19/18 at 09:05:55 No, however, the rule of law, or what constitutes behavior, needs to be consistent. Referencing past actions had always been accepted practice. You want to hold one to a standard of suspicion based on actions, then it should be the same for everyone, if not, why? |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by raydawg on 08/19/18 at 09:26:29 6646444C5146230 wrote:
And lets not lose sight of the FACT it was Hillary's opposition research who spawned this whole investigation, so YES, she is relevant to this comparison AND discussion..... Not to even mention Breenen is a fool who BELIEVED Trump when he joking said the Russians could find her emails. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by faffi on 08/19/18 at 13:21:09 Trump can tell jokes? I strongly doubt that ;D |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by T And T Garage on 08/19/18 at 14:32:55 2E292E2E21480 wrote:
That's the problem, because he tweets like a 14 year old girl, you never know what's a "joke" and what's not. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by MnSpring on 08/19/18 at 14:51:32 I’m not on twitter, don’t read it, nor do I intend to join. So, I have absolutely no idea how someone posts. How do you know who is posting ? It it experience ? 475956575A475C41330 wrote:
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by raydawg on 08/19/18 at 16:01:47 3D232C2D203D263B490 wrote:
That's the problem, because he tweets like a 14 year old girl, you never know what's a "joke" and what's not.[/quote] Yeah, hard to tell who around here is a liar too, not. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 06:05:49 283B233E3B2D3D5A0 wrote:
That's the problem, because he tweets like a 14 year old girl, you never know what's a "joke" and what's not.[/quote] Yeah, hard to tell who around here is a liar too, not. [/quote] I dunno, I can tell in some cases... |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by MnSpring on 08/20/18 at 08:23:35 485659585548534E3C0 wrote:
Please outline your experience, in knowing, exactaly how a 14 year old girl tweets like. So you can say the POTUS, sounds just like them. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 08:47:51 694A7754564D4A43240 wrote:
Please outline your experience, in knowing, exactaly how a 14 year old girl tweets like. So you can say the POTUS, sounds just like them. [/quote] Go look at Twitter. Find out for yourself mn. I'm not here to teach you what Twitter is. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by Eegore on 08/20/18 at 14:11:45 Trumps tweets are documented and regularly compared across a spectrum of other tweets in fields such as profession, region, age, gender and education levels. Comparative results show he does impulsively tweet and impulse communications in electronic mediums are typically attributed to teenagers when considering only the US as the parameters for geographical location. Still I'm wondering what Brennan did that can be legally challenged about his SC. |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 14:37:39 6545474F5245200 wrote:
Eegore - you're a better man than I! Well put. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Security clearance revoked by President Trump Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/18 at 15:15:14 I am not in a position to know. |
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