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Message started by T And T Garage on 08/19/18 at 11:44:43

Title: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/19/18 at 11:44:43
This is our orange leader's council.

He actually said this on national TV:
“Look, I’m not going to be rushed into having [Trump] testify so that he gets trapped into perjury,” Giuliani told Todd. “When you tell me that... he should testify because he’s going to tell the truth and he shouldn’t worry. Well, that’s so silly, because it’s somebody’s version of the truth [ch8213] not the truth.”

How can this be defended?  How can anyone think this is OK?

Is there a nation-wide gas leak????

Is the entire republican party on drugs???

Wake the F up!

http://www.yahoo.com/news/rudy-giuliani-stuns-nbc-apos-151901947.html

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by thumperclone on 08/19/18 at 12:57:30
Orwellian

the truth is what they say it is..

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/19/18 at 14:32:32

5448554D504552434C4F4E45200 wrote:
Orwellian

the truth is what they say it is..



Sad and scary, isn't it?

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/20/18 at 05:28:21
Yea cause no one's ever been convicted of perjury for telling the truth.......(what is the appropriate font to show sarcasm?....)

This is another statement similar to Rumsfeld's "known knowns" comments which was 100% correct and insightful but beyond the comprehension of liberal 'news' media.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by raydawg on 08/20/18 at 05:47:08

1B292E3F38293E012D3E274C0 wrote:
Yea cause no one's ever been convicted of perjury for telling the truth.......(what is the appropriate font to show sarcasm?....)

This is another statement similar to Rumsfeld's "known knowns" comments which was 100% correct and insightful but beyond the comprehension of liberal 'news' media.


Right up there with Russia being a JV team.....
That beat them  ;D

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by Eegore on 08/20/18 at 05:54:32

 Have you ever had to testify in court?

 A portion of your pre-trial prep is making sure you don't accidentally commit perjury based on how you make statements/answer questions.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/18 at 06:08:20
Ahh, so, it IS possible to be trapped.
If it's part of preparing to study how not to accidentally perjure yourself,I wonder if the team that hates you would look for ways to help you step into that trap...
Naaah, surely Not.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 06:11:37

073532232435221D31223B500 wrote:
Yea cause no one's ever been convicted of perjury for telling the truth.......(what is the appropriate font to show sarcasm?....)

This is another statement similar to Rumsfeld's "known knowns" comments which was 100% correct and insightful but beyond the comprehension of liberal 'news' media.


What??  You can defend that rumsfeld meandering mess??  Too funny!

I suppose deficits don't matter either (only when democrats are in power)
But I digress...

C'mon mark, just listen to this idiot try to defend the indefensible.  rudy has gone off the rails.  He's doing it in plain sight.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 06:13:01

4E6E6C64796E0B0 wrote:
 Have you ever had to testify in court?

 A portion of your pre-trial prep is making sure you don't accidentally commit perjury based on how you make statements/answer questions.


Though that may be true, we've never had a president that has lied as blatantly or as frequently as this one.  The trump tower meeting is just one example of hundreds.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 06:16:45

332C2A2D30370636063E2C206B590 wrote:
Ahh, so, it IS possible to be trapped.

Wait, I thought you said that trump is a master at negotiations and he's the "best president in your lifetime"? (or was that mark?)

If it's part of preparing to study how not to accidentally perjure yourself,I wonder if the team that hates you would look for ways to help you step into that trap...
Naaah, surely Not.

It's all part of the job jog.  You take the chair, you take everything that goes with it.  No mercy.  In fact, I think I made a comment about the president being held to a greater scrutiny that any other.

Maybe he should shut his orange mouth once in a while and stop tweeting.  But we know that will never happen.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 06:18:00

697A627F7A6C7C1B0 wrote:
[quote author=1B292E3F38293E012D3E274C0 link=1534704283/0#3 date=1534768101]Yea cause no one's ever been convicted of perjury for telling the truth.......(what is the appropriate font to show sarcasm?....)

This is another statement similar to Rumsfeld's "known knowns" comments which was 100% correct and insightful but beyond the comprehension of liberal 'news' media.


Right up there with Russia being a JV team.....
That beat them  ;D
[/quote]
So you admit that russia has "beat the dems"?


I digress - this thread is about rudy talking like an idiot (again).

Try to stay on track.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/20/18 at 06:52:20

4666646C7166030 wrote:
 Have you ever had to testify in court?

 A portion of your pre-trial prep is making sure you don't accidentally commit perjury based on how you make statements/answer questions.


Never court but numerous depositions.

Rudy might have done a poor job explaining his point but of course you can get 'trapped' in a question and answer session. Lawyers thrive on confusing the agreed to definition of a 'truthful' testimony.

Regarding Rumsfeld, like I said, he was 100% correct in his comments. Poorly communicated perhaps, perhaps not, but no one can argue against the validity of his comments.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/20/18 at 06:54:39

‘There are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.’

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by Serowbot on 08/20/18 at 07:39:49
John Keats...

Quote:
   There is an unknown known, and there is a known unknown. The unknown known is the philosophy of savagery; the known unknown is the philosophy of civilization. In those stages of culture that we call savagery and barbarism, all things are known — supposed to be known; but when at last something is known, understood, explained, then to those who have that knowledge in full comprehension all other things become unknown. Then is ushered in the era of investigation and discovery; then science is born; then is the beginning of civilization. The philosophy of savagery is complete; the philosophy of civilization fragmentary. Ye men of science, ye wise fools, ye have discovered the law of gravity, but ye cannot tell what gravity is. But savagery has a cause and a method for all things; nothing is left unexplained.



In short, the savage is free to imagine anything; the civilized man is constrained by evidence. The known unknown “ushers in the era of investigation and discovery;” the unknown known is the savage’s false belief that he can explain everything.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/20/18 at 08:14:22

In short, the savage is free to imagine anything; the civilized man is constrained by evidence.

Isn't imagining 'anything', the very essence of discovery and exploration?  

Being constrained by evidence would result in us never reaching beyond what's in front of us. There was no evidence that lead Einstein. He had a clue something was incomplete. He didn't know what it was exactly and there was no evidence for it. It fact, it would be years before physical evidence validated his mathematical claims.

I think these Keats lines confirm rather than refute what Rumsfeld was trying to say which is there are surprises out there we could never even imagine and we need to acknowledge their existence even if they are beyond our imagination.

Actually,  I think you are trying to squeeze a round peg into your "I hate all conservatives" square hole.


Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 08:22:38

744641505746516E425148230 wrote:
In short, the savage is free to imagine anything; the civilized man is constrained by evidence.

Isn't imagining 'anything', the very essence of discovery and exploration?  

Being constrained by evidence would result in us never reaching beyond what's in front of us. There was no evidence that lead Einstein. He had a clue something was incomplete. He didn't know what it was exactly and there was no evidence for it. It fact, it would be years before physical evidence validated his mathematical claims.

I think these Keats lines confirm rather than refute what Rumsfeld was trying to say which is there are surprises out there we could never even imagine and we need to acknowledge their existence even if they are beyond our imagination.

Actually,  I think you are trying to squeeze a round peg into your "I hate all conservatives" square hole.

Actually,  I think you are trying to squeeze a round peg into your "I hate all democrats" square hole.


See how easy that is to do?

Everyone knows that rumsfeld's quote was his way of justifying the invasion of Iraq.

Once again, it's about the CONTEXT.  Why do conservatives conveniently forget that?

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/20/18 at 08:40:49
Everyone knows that rumsfeld's quote was his way of justifying the invasion of Iraq.

Once again, it's about the CONTEXT.  Why do conservatives conveniently forget that?

The context doesn't alter the validity of the quote.

And the lines from Keats poem do not really apply here. Sew was looking for support from a source that carried some perceived authority and he misapplied them.

Context huh? What you're saying is context alters the meaning of words and phrases?

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 08:46:58

122027363120370824372E450 wrote:
Everyone knows that rumsfeld's quote was his way of justifying the invasion of Iraq.

Once again, it's about the CONTEXT.  Why do conservatives conveniently forget that?

The context doesn't alter the validity of the quote.

Yes it does!  He was trying to defend the invasion of Iraq!  Saying that the "unknown unknowns" were the missing WMDs.  It was back peddling 101.  Besides the fact that it's pretty obvious that, yeah, there are things we don't know....

And the lines from Keats poem do not really apply here. Sew was looking for support from a source that carried some perceived authority and he misapplied them.

Context huh? What you're saying is context alters the meaning of words and phrases?


Phrases, yes.  Just like the context of Obama's "you didn't build that" quote that has been taken out of context by the right.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/20/18 at 09:00:56
Phrases, yes.  Just like the context of Obama's "you didn't build that" quote that has been taken out of context by the right.

So in the hands of an authority figure like a prosecutor or judge, context could be used to alter the meaning, or another way to put that would be truth,  of a phrase or statement.

which was Rudy's poorly worded point about how easy it would be to commit perjury especially when confronting a hostile judge or in this case, partisan special prosecutor.

so it appears we finally agree on one thing. two melted snowballs in hell this week....

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 09:25:33

754740515647506F435049220 wrote:
Phrases, yes.  Just like the context of Obama's "you didn't build that" quote that has been taken out of context by the right.

So in the hands of an authority figure like a prosecutor or judge, context could be used to alter the meaning, or another way to put that would be truth,  of a phrase or statement.

which was Rudy's poorly worded point about how easy it would be to commit perjury especially when confronting a hostile judge or in this case, partisan special prosecutor.

Hostile judge?  Partisan prosecutor?  You seem to assume a lot.

That not withstanding, the truth is the truth.  It can't be made a lie by context.

Our president and his staff lied about the trump tower meeting.  There's nothing about the context.  He said one thing, then he said another.  There are literally hundreds of examples of lies told by our president on twitter and other public statements.  Context doesn't enter into it.

so it appears we finally agree on one thing. two melted snowballs in hell this week....


No, I'm afraid we don't.  

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/20/18 at 09:37:52
Yea, I think we do. It's okay to admit it.

That not withstanding, the truth is the truth.  It can't be made a lie by context.

If the one who decides what constitutes truth is not virtuous, of course that person can use context to turn 'truth' into a lie.

You make a correct statement that truth is truth. It is an absolute. However, truth is not always known (perhaps a majority of the time in fact) and sometimes is completely unknowable.  

As far as 'hundreds of lies on twitter and context doesn't enter into it' is evidence of your partisanship, not truthfulness.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 09:46:15

043631202736211E322138530 wrote:
Yea, I think we do. It's okay to admit it.

That not withstanding, the truth is the truth.  It can't be made a lie by context.

If the one who decides what constitutes truth is not virtuous, of course that person can use context to turn 'truth' into a lie.

To repeat: Our president and his staff lied about the trump tower meeting.  There's nothing about the context.

You make a correct statement that truth is truth. It is an absolute. However, truth is not always known (perhaps a majority of the time in fact) and sometimes is completely unknowable.  

As far as 'hundreds of lies on twitter and context doesn't enter into it' is evidence of your partisanship, not truthfulness.

No, that actually shows your blind faith in a man that is a serial liar.

"California wildfires are being magnified & made so much worse by the bad environmental laws which aren’t allowing massive amount of readily available water to be properly utilized. It is being diverted into the Pacific Ocean."

"U.S. Steel just announced that they are building six new steel mills."

"Wow, highest Poll Numbers in the history of the Republican Party. That includes Honest Abe Lincoln and Ronald Reagan."

"The Electoral College is much more advantageous for Democrats."

"The servers of the Pakistani gentleman that worked on the DNC" are "missing."

"I have watched ICE liberate towns from the grasp of MS-13."

"Watch those GDP numbers. We started off at a very low number, and right now we hit a 3.2 (percent). Nobody thought that was possible."

"The European Union … they send us Mercedes, they send us -- by the millions -- the BMWs -- cars by the millions."

That's just July of this year....

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/20/18 at 10:08:09
You're operating under some kind of delusion that you are going to tell me something about Trump I don't already know and all of a sudden I'll flip.

As I've said, I support Trump because he was the only one willing to carry the flag into the battle against leftist who are destroying this country.  

He has too many flaws to mention, but none of those flaws take away his ability to do the job I hired him to do.

If I were shown Trump was only out for himself or was traitorous towards the US, I'd flip on him instantly. But nothing I've seen shows that.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/18 at 11:01:34

6B595E4F48594E715D4E573C0 wrote:
You're operating under some kind of delusion that you are going to tell me something about Trump I don't already know and all of a sudden I'll flip.

As I've said, I support Trump because he was the only one willing to carry the flag into the battle against leftist who are destroying this country.  

He has too many flaws to mention, but none of those flaws take away his ability to do the job I hired him to do.

If I were shown Trump was only out for himself or was traitorous towards the US, I'd flip on him instantly. But nothing I've seen showsh that.



That's what Trump supporters are.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 11:14:19

645651404756417E524158330 wrote:
You're operating under some kind of delusion that you are going to tell me something about Trump I don't already know and all of a sudden I'll flip.

Not at all.  I don't, nor would I ever suspect that you would.  I just like shining a light on hypocrisy, that's all.

You say it's partisan, I can prove that it's not.  A lie is a lie.  Partisanship doesn't enter into it.

As I've said, I support Trump because he was the only one willing to carry the flag into the battle against leftist who are destroying this country.  

How can anyone take that statement seriously?  Are you saying that the same liberalism that gave us public schools, Medicare and a 40 hour work week is somehow "destroying" this country?

I think not.

He has too many flaws to mention, but none of those flaws take away his ability to do the job I hired him to do.

Yes, they actually do.  One only needs to look at what he did FOR North Korea.  He came away with nothing.  NK came away with a meeting with the world's most powerful country.

If I were shown Trump was only out for himself or was traitorous towards the US, I'd flip on him instantly. But nothing I've seen shows that.

Then you haven't been watching very closely.  On his mara lago property alone, he's making millions just for being president.

How many time do you have to hear the man say "I will do such and such"?

He is a textbook narcissist.  An autocrat of the highest order.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 11:14:59

392620273A3D0C3C0C34262A61530 wrote:
[quote author=6B595E4F48594E715D4E573C0 link=1534704283/15#22 date=1534784889]You're operating under some kind of delusion that you are going to tell me something about Trump I don't already know and all of a sudden I'll flip.

As I've said, I support Trump because he was the only one willing to carry the flag into the battle against leftist who are destroying this country.  

He has too many flaws to mention, but none of those flaws take away his ability to do the job I hired him to do.

If I were shown Trump was only out for himself or was traitorous towards the US, I'd flip on him instantly. But nothing I've seen showsh that.



That's what Trump supporters are.[/quote]

See my post above to mark.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/20/18 at 11:59:21
Then you haven't been watching very closely.  On his mara lago property alone, he's making millions just for being president.

How many time do you have to hear the man say "I will do such and such"?

He is a textbook narcissist.  An autocrat of the highest order.

Well then, I can honestly say then you are a fool. You are useful for humor purposes and to remind myself what must be overcome for this nation to continue on. Also reminder what horrors await when you eventually take over which you will. I've told Sew this for years. His side (and yours) will eventually win. You will destroy this nation. Everything comes to an end and is usually destroyed from within and that's likely our fate. But for now, I'll enjoy what freedoms I have until you and yours snatch them.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 12:09:17

5A686F7E79687F406C7F660D0 wrote:
Then you haven't been watching very closely.  On his mara lago property alone, he's making millions just for being president.

How many time do you have to hear the man say "I will do such and such"?

He is a textbook narcissist.  An autocrat of the highest order.

Well then, I can honestly say then you are a fool. You are useful for humor purposes and to remind myself what must be overcome for this nation to continue on. Also reminder what horrors await when you eventually take over which you will. I've told Sew this for years. His side (and yours) will eventually win. You will destroy this nation. Everything comes to an end and is usually destroyed from within and that's likely our fate. But for now, I'll enjoy what freedoms I have until you and yours snatch them.


Your words, not mine: If I were shown Trump was only out for himself or was traitorous towards the US, I'd flip on him instantly.

What's it going to take?  If it's not mara lago, then what?  His money laundering for russian oligarchs?  His (admitted) collusion with russia?  How can you not see that he's ONLY out for himself.  The man's never held public office.  He is literally a reality TV show host.

If this were a dem, you conservatives would be all over him.  It just reeks of blatant hypocrisy.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/20/18 at 12:56:22

What's it going to take?  If it's not mara lago, then what?

You think Trump ran for President to make money off Mara Lago? Seriously? That's hilarious.  

His (admitted) collusion with russia?
Hasn't he repeatedly said no collusion? Or are  you expanding the definition of collusion. I can't recall who but didn't I just read somewhere someone said context is everything.....

How can you not see that he's ONLY out for himself.
Without admitting he's is or isn't, isn't every politician out for himself? Couldn't I just as easily say Obama ran for office because that was the only way he was ever going to get wealthy? I'm not saying he did, I'm just using your logic.

And Trump's lost a lot. He loves golf but the snowflakes that run some tournaments drop his courses. He was the absolute darling of Hollywood liberals until he ran and then he was dropped. You know how much many of these B list celebs who trash him all day now would have given to be on his show?

The man's never held public office.  He is literally a reality TV show host.
He ran numerous business' and created an entire empire. doesn't that perspective and business experience count for anything?


Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 13:25:17

1F2D2A3B3C2D3A05293A23480 wrote:
What's it going to take?  If it's not mara lago, then what?

You think Trump ran for President to make money off Mara Lago? Seriously? That's hilarious.  

No, but he certainly didn't do it to serve the country - he's in it for one guy only - himself.

His (admitted) collusion with russia?
Hasn't he repeatedly said no collusion? Or are  you expanding the definition of collusion. I can't recall who but didn't I just read somewhere someone said context is everything.....

No, I'm referring to him saying "collusion is not a crime".  Further, the meeting at trump tower is collusion.

How can you not see that he's ONLY out for himself.
Without admitting he's is or isn't, isn't every politician out for himself?

No.  They are public servants.  Their job is to serve the public.  To represent the public.

Couldn't I just as easily say Obama ran for office because that was the only way he was ever going to get wealthy? I'm not saying he did, I'm just using your logic.

No, because his history prior to his presidency doesn't point to that.  Obama served the public.  I'm not saying he didn't get rich after the fact, but while he was in office, he sure as heck didn't make million on all his properties.  Gee, I wonder who did?

And Trump's lost a lot. He loves golf (yeah, we know, he's played more at this point in his presidency than pretty much any other president) but the snowflakes that run some tournaments drop his courses. He was the absolute darling of Hollywood liberals until he ran and then he was dropped. You know how much many of these B list celebs who trash him all day now would have given to be on his show?

"Be on his show"?  That right there says pretty much everything.

The man's never held public office.  He is literally a reality TV show host.
He ran numerous business' and created an entire empire. doesn't that perspective and business experience count for anything?

No, because he really didn't.  The man you consider a "great businessman" bankrupted a casino... how does anyone even do that?  How can you call a guy who bankrupts several times a success?

Had he kept his daddy's money in a mutual fund, he would have amassed more of a fortune.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/20/18 at 14:02:21
You think Trump ran for President to make money off Mara Lago? Seriously? That's hilarious.  

No, but he certainly didn't do it to serve the country - he's in it for one guy only - himself.

You've given nothing to support that, just a partisan position.

No, I'm referring to him saying "collusion is not a crime".  Further, the meeting at trump tower is collusion.

I have a feeling your definition of context will come into play here... Didn't Trump say Hilary colluded with the Russians and she should be investigated? Yes, I believe he did say that many times so isn't he acknowledging that collusion as a crime? Or did he mean something else? You know, that context thing again....
The Trump meeting is collusion?! Really? You can make that statement?! Your history of predictions on what is and isn't going to happen is pretty abysmal so saying that meeting was collusion is pretty flimsy...

Without admitting he's is or isn't, isn't every politician out for himself?
No.  They are public servants.  Their job is to serve the public.  To represent the public.  

Okay, no one believes that. Every politician is narcissistic, Trump in that regards is no different. Again, your foolishness is on display with that answer. I'll give you a mulligan and let you off the hook on that stupid answer.

Couldn't I just as easily say Obama ran for office because that was the only way he was ever going to get wealthy? I'm not saying he did, I'm just using your logic.

No, because his history prior to his presidency doesn't point to that.  Obama served the public.  I'm not saying he didn't get rich after the fact, but while he was in office, he sure as heck didn't make million on all his properties.  Gee, I wonder who did?

Okay, again, couldn't I say his prior work was designed with only one goal in mind? And once in office, he knew he'd never, ever worry about anything again. He knew he was an instant multi-millionaire.  

He ran numerous business' and created an entire empire. doesn't that perspective and business experience count for anything?

No, because he really didn't.  The man you consider a "great businessman" bankrupted a casino... how does anyone even do that?  How can you call a guy who bankrupts several times a success?

Casinos go bankrupt. Quite a few went out of business in Atlantic City.
Below is just a couple lines from one article I found about that. Do you think casinos are always money makers? Are you that inept? Seriously, you've made it clear before in other answers from the past you don't know anything about business, but it would take a 4th grader to say casinos don't go bankrupt.   Again, you're a funny little guy and you've been amusing on this rare day when I'm home. Thanks TT!


Three of the four recently shuttered casinos have gone through bankruptcy: Revel filed for bankruptcy for the second time on June 19; Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino, owned by Trump Entertainment Resorts, filed its latest Chapter 11 petition on Sept. 9; and the Atlantic Club Casino Hotel filed on Nov. 6, 2013. Showboat Atlantic City, owned by Caesars Entertainment Operating Co., closed shop before the gaming company's voluntary Jan. 15 Chapter 11 filing.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 14:35:54

4C7E79686F7E69567A69701B0 wrote:
You think Trump ran for President to make money off Mara Lago? Seriously? That's hilarious.  

No, but he certainly didn't do it to serve the country - he's in it for one guy only - himself.

You've given nothing to support that, just a partisan position.

How about the fact that he continues to run his businesses?  How about the fact that his hotel in DC is first in the listing for official guests of the president?

I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

No, I'm referring to him saying "collusion is not a crime".  Further, the meeting at trump tower is collusion.

I have a feeling your definition of context will come into play here... Didn't Trump say Hilary colluded with the Russians and she should be investigated?  

No, because her actions were above board - her's was actual opposition research that can be tracked via the law firm.  His (and more to the point, his son's) were not.

Further, both trumps lied about the meeting more than once.

Yes, I believe he did say that many times so isn't he acknowledging that collusion as a crime? Or did he mean something else? You know, that context thing again....
The Trump meeting is collusion?! Really? You can make that statement?!

See my statement above.

Your history of predictions on what is and isn't going to happen is pretty abysmal so saying that meeting was collusion is pretty flimsy...

My "history" is not borne out yet.  We're not even to the 2 year mark yet and look at the dirt on this president!  His "swamp draining" has actually led to a bigger swamp!

Without admitting he's is or isn't, isn't every politician out for himself?
No.  They are public servants.  Their job is to serve the public.  To represent the public.  

Okay, no one believes that.

No one?  I wouldn't be so sure.  Just because you're a cynic.

Every politician is narcissistic, Trump in that regards is no different. Again, your foolishness is on display with that answer. I'll give you a mulligan and let you off the hook on that stupid answer.

Thanks, but I don't need or want your charity.

Couldn't I just as easily say Obama ran for office because that was the only way he was ever going to get wealthy? I'm not saying he did, I'm just using your logic.

No, because his history prior to his presidency doesn't point to that.  Obama served the public.  I'm not saying he didn't get rich after the fact, but while he was in office, he sure as heck didn't make million on all his properties.  Gee, I wonder who did?

Okay, again, couldn't I say his prior work was designed with only one goal in mind? And once in office, he knew he'd never, ever worry about anything again. He knew he was an instant multi-millionaire.  

No, you couldn't compare the two.

He ran numerous business' and created an entire empire. doesn't that perspective and business experience count for anything?

No, because he really didn't.  The man you consider a "great businessman" bankrupted a casino... how does anyone even do that?  How can you call a guy who bankrupts several times a success?

Casinos go bankrupt. Quite a few went out of business in Atlantic City.
Below is just a couple lines from one article I found about that. Do you think casinos are always money makers? Are you that inept?

No, I'm not that inept, because I've never bankrupted a casino.  Look to your orange leader for that.

Seriously, you've made it clear before in other answers from the past you don't know anything about business, but it would take a 4th grader to say casinos don't go bankrupt.   Again, you're a funny little guy and you've been amusing on this rare day when I'm home. Thanks TT!

Yeah, bring on the personal insults, that doesn't show that you're struggling at all!

Three of the four recently shuttered casinos have gone through bankruptcy: Revel filed for bankruptcy for the second time on June 19; Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino, owned by Trump Entertainment Resorts, filed its latest Chapter 11 petition on Sept. 9; and the Atlantic Club Casino Hotel filed on Nov. 6, 2013. Showboat Atlantic City, owned by Caesars Entertainment Operating Co., closed shop before the gaming company's voluntary Jan. 15 Chapter 11 filing.


Well then, if our president was such a "great businessman", then how could he possibly be like all those other "losers"?

Now, suddenly it's OK to be an "average" businessman?  Why do you lower your standards?

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/20/18 at 15:46:27
Ha ha! Talk about spin!

Look, if you didn't know casinos go bankrupt sometimes and in particular the casinos in Atlantic City, that demonstrates you're not well informed other than what you watch on Comedy Central.
If you did know and still said that, you're lying....again.

So which is it? Liar or inept?

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by MnSpring on 08/20/18 at 16:18:03

1C2E29383F2E39062A39204B0 wrote:
Ha ha! Talk about spin!  Look, if you didn't know casinos go bankrupt sometimes and in particular the casinos in Atlantic City, that demonstrates you're not well informed other than what you watch on Comedy Central.  If you did know and still said that, you're lying....again.  
So which is it? Liar or inept?

So which is it? Liar or inept?

WOW, you just Cough a  Whopper.

The Troll will  SPIN,
Cause NO way will the Troll admit he/she is Inept.
And NO  Way is, he/she is going to admit he/she Lied.

So get Ready for the, SPIN.

;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D  

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/18 at 16:22:15
He can't be wrong.
He's a liar.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by raydawg on 08/20/18 at 17:05:16

0A151314090E3F0F3F07151952600 wrote:
He can't be wrong.
He's a liar.


That is hilarious  ;D

"And that's why I said TT was nothing short of a self serving spinner, thief, and liar.
didn't mean that he committed this acts. But it was a term that I used, nothing short of spinner, thief, and liar" he said.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 17:42:57

6D5F58494E5F48775B48513A0 wrote:
Ha ha! Talk about spin!

Look, if you didn't know casinos go bankrupt sometimes and in particular the casinos in Atlantic City, that demonstrates you're not well informed other than what you watch on Comedy Central.

No mark, I realize that any business can go out of business.  However, what I find unusual is that any "great businessman" would let that happen.  Are you avoiding that fact?  If trump is as great as you say he is, this would have never of happened.

If you did know and still said that, you're lying....again.

So which is it? Liar or inept?


Neither.  I'm not the president.
;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 17:43:22

302F292E33340535053D2F23685A0 wrote:
He can't be wrong.
He's a liar.



Got any proof?

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 17:47:17

5C4F574A4F59492E0 wrote:
[quote author=0A151314090E3F0F3F07151952600 link=1534704283/30#34 date=1534807335]He can't be wrong.
He's a liar.


That is hilarious  ;D

"And that's why I said TT was nothing short of a self serving spinner, thief, and liar.
didn't mean that he committed this acts. But it was a term that I used, nothing short of spinner, thief, and liar" he said.[/quote]

Oh no.  Now "everyone" is turning against me....

Whatever will I do?

Hey, have you four noticed how defensive you all have gotten?

I find that hilarious and of no surprise.

Keep up the great work fellas.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by MnSpring on 08/20/18 at 17:54:00
 See, the  SPIN

;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

LOLOOLOLOOL

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 18:01:15

684B7655574C4B42250 wrote:
 See, the  SPIN

;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

LOLOOLOLOOL



[smiley=lolk.gif]

Very witty mn.  I didn't even see ray's lips move on that one!

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/18 at 18:29:51
Hey, have you four noticed how defensive you all have gotten?


Big difference between defensive and sick of you and your crap.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 18:31:06

67787E7964635262526A78743F0D0 wrote:
Hey, have you four noticed how defensive you all have gotten?


Big difference between defensive and sick of you and your crap.


No one's holding a gun at your head to comment.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/18 at 19:30:25
non se·qui·tur
[ch716]nän [ch712]sekw[ch601]d[ch601]r]
NOUN
a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.

Try to make sense.
Who said anything about that?

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/20/18 at 19:34:55
Which is it?

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 19:47:35

594640475A5D6C5C6C54464A01330 wrote:
non se·qui·tur
[ch716]nän [ch712]sekw[ch601]d[ch601]r]
NOUN
a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.

Try to make sense.
Who said anything about that?


Well... to review, here's what was said:

Me - Hey, have you four noticed how defensive you all have gotten?


You - Big difference between defensive and sick of you and your crap.


Me - No one's holding a gun at your head to comment.



The meaning is, your posts are defensive.  You don't have to comment, yet you do.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 19:48:01

132126373021360925362F440 wrote:
Which is it?



Which is what?

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/18 at 20:00:39
meaning is, your posts are defensive.  You don't have to comment, yet you

Your opinion. Based on your history of twisting and lying and choosing to fail to grasp the obvious, I'm not surprised that you see it that way.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/20/18 at 20:02:55

617E787F62655464546C7E72390B0 wrote:
meaning is, your posts are defensive.  You don't have to comment, yet you

Your opinion. Based on your history of twisting and lying and choosing to fail to grasp the obvious, I'm not surprised that you see it that way.


Whatever jog.  Suffice it to say, you don't always have to post a response, you choose to.

If you don't like the outcome, that's on you, not me.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/21/18 at 06:07:49
Let's summarize this and move on before Sew locks this thread. Another way to say that is open his skirts so someone can run and hide behind them.

The same person said both statements.

1) The man you consider a "great businessman" bankrupted a casino... how does anyone even do that?  How can you call a guy who bankrupts several times a success?

2) No mark, I realize that any business can go out of business.

Now, it could be statement number one was an exaggerated claim to make a point. (or as the liberal 'news' media call it, a lie. )

Or it could be an acknowledgment that he really doesn't know much about the world of business or news for that matter outside of what Noah or that English guy pass off as comedy on Comedy Central.

Or he is well informed, intelligent etc and knowingly passed along false information which is the definition of a lie.

Statement number 2 came after the realization he just did the exact same thing he gets his panties in a bunch over when Trump does it. (I wonder if his hair is orange too....)

So, my question stands; which is it.
Are you inept?  (i-nept] ADJECTIVE having or showing no skill; clumsy.

or did you really know casinos go out of business like you said in statement number 2 which means you were lying in statement number 1?

So answer quick so we can get on with it. Answer and I will never mention it again. Never. It will be as if it never happened. The ultimate Mulligan.  

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/21/18 at 06:29:41

596B6C7D7A6B7C436F7C650E0 wrote:
Let's summarize this and move on before Sew locks this thread. Another way to say that is open his skirts so someone can run and hide behind them.

The same person said both statements.

1) The man you consider a "great businessman" bankrupted a casino... how does anyone even do that?  How can you call a guy who bankrupts several times a success?

2) No mark, I realize that any business can go out of business.

Now, it could be statement number one was an exaggerated claim to make a point. (or as the liberal 'news' media call it, a lie. )

Or it could be an acknowledgment that he really doesn't know much about the world of business or news for that matter outside of what Noah or that English guy pass off as comedy on Comedy Central.

Or he is well informed, intelligent etc and knowingly passed along false information which is the definition of a lie.

Statement number 2 came after the realization he just did the exact same thing he gets his panties in a bunch over when Trump does it. (I wonder if his hair is orange too....)

So, my question stands; which is it.
Are you inept?  (i-nept] ADJECTIVE having or showing no skill; clumsy.

or did you really know casinos go out of business like you said in statement number 2 which means you were lying in statement number 1?

So answer quick so we can get on with it. Answer and I will never mention it again. Never. It will be as if it never happened. The ultimate Mulligan.  



Seems you miss the point completely mark.  It makes no difference what I do or don't know about bankrupting a casino.

The point is - you defend our president as a "great businessman".  My question is simple - how can a great businessman bankrupt a casino?

Yes, it is surely possible, especially in trump's case I guess - trump casino properties filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection four times — in 1991, 1992, 2004, and 2009.

So, to get back on track - I'll admit that I know noting about running a casino - that's why I don't.  However, it's common knowledge that when run by a great businessman, they thrive (see steve wynn).

You proclaim that one of the largest qualifications of trump being president is that he's a "great businessman".  I have yet to see that "greatness".

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/21/18 at 07:08:31
Nope. You either lied or are inept. It's not a case of not knowing about bankrupting a casino. I'm judging you using your well known and frequent standards.

Did you make a wild claim about how could anyone be so dumb as to bankrupt a casino because everyone knows casinos never go bankrupt and you'd have to be a moron to do that.....or.....did you know that just like other companies, they go bankrupt due to forces beyond their control and you said that anyway to make Trump look bad, meaning you lied.
Which one?

FYI; I'm not sure I proclaimed Trump to be a great businessman. Don't recall saying that. Maybe I did, but I'd have to see the CONTEXT.

But...is he a great businessman? I'll say this as an answer. You have known the name Donald Trump for most of your adult life. His name is on buildings and properties across the globe. Most major politicians got down on their knees and kissed his behind. Hilary included. They all took his money and their pictures with him. Here's the biggest point however, before he announced he was running for President, anyone in the world would have taken his call 2 years ago excited at the prospect. Anyone.
So, would you say he's a great businessman?

Now you can answer two questions for me.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by MnSpring on 08/21/18 at 07:44:11

695B5C4D4A5B4C735F4C553E0 wrote:
Let's summarize this and move on before Sew locks this thread. Another way to say that is
open his skirts so someone can run and hide behind them.  ..."

First TT says:
“…  how does anyone even do that? …”
Concerning a person going bankrupt.
When that was said,  people didn’t know, if TT was a Lier or Inept.

It is the second statement that TT said:
“… I realize that any business can go out of business …”
That proved TT was lying.

The the Beauty Part.
TT said: “… Run away and don’t answer the question…”
When TT does not answer questions that are asked of him.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/21/18 at 08:34:57

1B292E3F38293E012D3E274C0 wrote:
Nope. You either lied or are inept. It's not a case of not knowing about bankrupting a casino. I'm judging you using your well known and frequent standards.

Did you make a wild claim about how could anyone be so dumb as to bankrupt a casino because everyone knows casinos never go bankrupt and you'd have to be a moron to do that.....or.....did you know that just like other companies, they go bankrupt due to forces beyond their control and you said that anyway to make Trump look bad, meaning you lied.
Which one?

Well mark, a "great businessman" wouldn't let those forces prevail, now would they?

FYI; I'm not sure I proclaimed Trump to be a great businessman. Don't recall saying that. Maybe I did, but I'd have to see the CONTEXT.

Fair enough:

Me-The man's never held public office.  He is literally a reality TV show host.
You - He ran numerous business' and created an entire empire. doesn't that perspective and business experience count for anything?


But...is he a great businessman? I'll say this as an answer. You have known the name Donald Trump for most of your adult life. His name is on buildings and properties across the globe. Most major politicians got down on their knees and kissed his behind. Hilary included. They all took his money and their pictures with him. Here's the biggest point however, before he announced he was running for President, anyone in the world would have taken his call 2 years ago excited at the prospect. Anyone.

So not true (you're nearly lying, but I'll let it go) - not one single US bank was lending him money.  His TV show was sinking in the ratings and he was being fed cash by the russain mafia.

So, would you say he's a great businessman?

No, he's not.  He's a self-promoter that has far more failures than successes - business wise.  His properties are propped up by the russians - just ask eric trump.  He got his start with his daddy's money and made nothing on his own.  Just like the presidency, he woke up on third base and called it a home run.

Now you can answer two questions for me.


See above.

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/21/18 at 08:36:50

42615C7F7D6661680F0 wrote:
[quote author=695B5C4D4A5B4C735F4C553E0 link=1534704283/45#49 date=1534856869]Let's summarize this and move on before Sew locks this thread. Another way to say that is
open his skirts so someone can run and hide behind them.  ..."

First TT says:
“…  how does anyone even do that? …”
Concerning a person going bankrupt.
When that was said,  people didn’t know, if TT was a Lier or Inept.

It is the second statement that TT said:
“… I realize that any business can go out of business …”
That proved TT was lying.

The the Beauty Part.
TT said: “… Run away and don’t answer the question…”
When TT does not answer questions that are asked of him.
[/quote]

If you would actually read my responses, you'd see mn.

The way I see it, only a poor businessman could bankrupt multiple casinos.  That's what trump did.  He's not a "great businessman".

Understand?

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by Serowbot on 08/21/18 at 14:52:56

556760717667704F637069020 wrote:
If I were shown Trump was only out for himself or was traitorous towards the US, I'd flip on him instantly. But nothing I've seen shows that.


I'm going to hold you to that.

If,... it is proven that Trump knew about the Russians hacking the DNC and election precincts,.. would you qualify that as treasonous?...
... or only if Democrats did it?... ;D

I assume revoking security clearances for political reasons is not.
I assume lying about his son's meeting with Russians is not.
Lying about spending the night in a Russian hotel during the Miss Universe Pageant is not.
Lying about trying to negotiate a deal with Putin to build the tallest building in Russia during the election campaign is not.

One more,... if it comes out that Trump paid off a woman he got pregnant and she very soon after aborted the child,... would that change your mind?
That would be somewhat equivalent, by your standards, to killing someone in Times square.
Correct?...

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by WebsterMark on 08/21/18 at 15:07:52

2234233E26333E25510 wrote:
[quote author=556760717667704F637069020 link=1534704283/15#22 date=1534784889]
If I were shown Trump was only out for himself or was traitorous towards the US, I'd flip on him instantly. But nothing I've seen shows that.


I'm going to hold you to that.

If,... it is proven that Trump knew about the Russians hacking the DNC and election precincts,.. would you qualify that as treasonous?...
... or only if Democrats did it?... ;D

Need specifics. who hacked election precincts? That happened?
I assume revoking security clearances for political reasons is not.
No way to prove that so No.
I assume lying about his son's meeting with Russians is not.
No.
Lying about spending the night in a Russian hotel during the Miss Universe Pageant is not.
Honestly, never heard that before.
Lying about trying to negotiate a deal with Putin to build the tallest building in Russia during the election campaign is not.
Never heard that before either but if he did, is that a problem? Am I missing something?

One more,... if it comes out that Trump paid off a woman he got pregnant and she very soon after aborted the child,... would that change your mind?
Are you making stuff up now?
but no, that's not traitorous.
That would be somewhat equivalent, by your standards, to killing someone in Times square.
Correct?...[/quote]

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by MnSpring on 08/21/18 at 15:41:37

3B252A2B263B203D4F0 wrote:
Well... to review, here's what was said:
Me - Hey, have you four noticed how defensive you all have gotten?
You - Big difference between defensive and sick of you and your crap.
Me - No one's holding a gun at your head to comment.
The meaning is, your posts are defensive.  You don't have to comment, yet you do.


Really. REALLY ?
So when you, post something,
then in the next post,
Counter it.
Why do you NOT, admit you are Lying ?

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by Serowbot on 08/21/18 at 16:07:19

576562737465724D61726B000 wrote:
[quote author=2234233E26333E25510 link=1534704283/45#55 date=1534888376][quote author=556760717667704F637069020 link=1534704283/15#22 date=1534784889]
If I were shown Trump was only out for himself or was traitorous towards the US, I'd flip on him instantly. But nothing I've seen shows that.




I'm going to hold you to that.

If,... it is proven that Trump knew about the Russians hacking the DNC and election precincts,.. would you qualify that as treasonous?...
... or only if Democrats did it?... ;D

Need specifics. who hacked election precincts? That happened?
I assume revoking security clearances for political reasons is not.
No way to prove that so No.
I assume lying about his son's meeting with Russians is not.
No.
Lying about spending the night in a Russian hotel during the Miss Universe Pageant is not.
Honestly, never heard that before.
Lying about trying to negotiate a deal with Putin to build the tallest building in Russia during the election campaign is not.
Never heard that before either but if he did, is that a problem? Am I missing something?

One more,... if it comes out that Trump paid off a woman he got pregnant and she very soon after aborted the child,... would that change your mind?
Are you making stuff up now?
but no, that's not traitorous.
That would be somewhat equivalent, by your standards, to killing someone in Times square.
Correct?...[/quote]
[/quote]

Flight records show Trump spent night in Russia, contradicting what he told Comey
Lying to a federal prosecutor...
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/384461-flight-records-show-trump-spent-night-in-russia-contradicting-what-he

Trump signed letter of intent for Russian tower during campaign, lawyer says
He said he had no dealings with Russia during the campaign.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-knew-moscow-tower-proposal-campaign-lawyer/story?id=49472342

...just a theory, I know... but Cohen even used the same pseudonyms, David Dennison and Peggy Peterson in the NDA...
David Dennison is famously an alias Trump has used in the past.
Here’s a Theory About That $1.6 Million Payout From a GOP Official to a Playboy Model
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/theory-playboy-model-had-affair-with-trump-not-broidy.html

Title: Re: What?  Did He...?  I Mean, WHAT??
Post by T And T Garage on 08/21/18 at 17:34:45

63407D5E5C4740492E0 wrote:
[quote author=3B252A2B263B203D4F0 link=1534704283/45#45 date=1534819655]Well... to review, here's what was said:
Me - Hey, have you four noticed how defensive you all have gotten?
You - Big difference between defensive and sick of you and your crap.
Me - No one's holding a gun at your head to comment.
The meaning is, your posts are defensive.  You don't have to comment, yet you do.


Really. REALLY ?
So when you, post something,
then in the next post,
Counter it.
Why do you NOT, admit you are Lying ?
[/quote]


Simple mn - because I'm not lying.

If you have proof of me lying, then please - post it.

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