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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Oh......but I thought???? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1535514315 Message started by raydawg on 08/28/18 at 20:45:15 |
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Title: Oh......but I thought???? Post by raydawg on 08/28/18 at 20:45:15 :(What do you think of this? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/24/AR2008012403383.html It’s 3 pages long, mercy. Here is the leading: Aide Helped Controversial Russian Meet McCain Russian billionaire Oleg Deripaska has been suspected of having ties to organized crime. Russian billionaire Oleg Deripaska has been suspected of having ties to organized crime. (By Dmitry Beliakov -- Bloomberg News) By Jeffrey H. Birnbaum and John Solomon Washington Post Staff Writers Friday, January 25, 2008 A top political adviser in Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign helped arrange an introduction in 2006 between McCain and a Russian billionaire whose suspected links to anti-democratic and organized-crime figures are so controversial that the U.S. government revoked his visa. Rick Davis, who is now McCain's campaign manager, helped set up the encounter between McCain and Russian aluminum magnate Oleg Deripaska in Switzerland during an international economic conference. At the time, Davis was working for a lobbying firm and seeking to do business with the billionaire. There is no evidence that McCain did anything for Deripaska after they met at a social gathering over drinks and dinner. Deripaska was grateful for the introduction, writing a thank-you note to Davis and his partner and offering to assist them in a subsequent business deal, according to a copy of the note obtained by The Washington Post BTW, Rick Davis was working with Paul Manafort’s lobbying firm :o |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/28/18 at 21:05:05 Well, since this was stated in your post: There is no evidence that McCain did anything for Deripaska after they met at a social gathering over drinks and dinner. There's no 'there' there regarding McCain. Now in the case of our "wonderful" orange leader.... that's another story. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 04:53:50 The key point left put of this article is the FBI warned McCain. They didn't warn the Trump campaign who Manafort was dealing with. They began spying. And they did that because of the political bias of FBI leadership at the time and seems plausible Obama knew. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/29/18 at 07:12:42 786669686578637E0C0 wrote:
Obviously, look at the indictment.. Ohhh, wait.. Not one.. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 08:07:40 162423323524330C20332A410 wrote:
You can't say that. There is simply no basis to it or proof of it. The FBI opened up the can of worms that was hillary's email server. A hillary supporter could then say the exact same thing about the FBI. The fact is, the FBI began investigating (not spying on) the trump campaign after they saw how far down the rabbit hole trump went with the russians. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 08:09:28 2D3234332E2918281820323E75470 wrote:
Obviously, look at the indictment.. Ohhh, wait.. Not one.. [/quote] a Very true jog. Not yet But how many related to his campaign? Gee, I lost count!! Oh, and remind me again how many indictments in the hillary email "scandal" and "Benghazi"? |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/29/18 at 08:12:27 If you are honest you'll note that she was protected. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 08:25:24 The reason they didn't warn the trump campaign because the trump meeting wasn't sanctioned. What does sanctioned mean in this context? |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 08:26:23 293630372A2D1C2C1C24363A71430 wrote:
LOL - once again, there's always that. If she was that protected, then how come she lost the election? If she is indeed some sort of "mastermind", then winning the presidency would have been a minor formality. If it's so obvious that she actually did something wrong, then why is it only conspiracy theorists can see it and no one else can? What's she got cooking up right now? Yeah, that whole "sinister insider" angle played itself out on info wars. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 08:27:18 093B3C2D2A3B2C133F2C355E0 wrote:
The McCain meeting was above board. It was public knowledge before it happened. The trump tower meeting wasn't . |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 08:56:08 The McCain meeting was above board. How do you know that? How would you know that? It was public knowledge before it happened. Are you sure? Also, is it a crime for someone affiliated with a campaign to take a meeting with someone who is affiliated with a foreign government who sets up the meeting to pass along what they consider to be potentially damaging information on a political opponent when in fact they had no damaging information, but rather they set the meeting up to discuss another matter they wanted addressed; a recent law passed regarding Russian adoptions? |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 09:59:27 7B494E5F58495E614D5E472C0 wrote:
If you believe that, then that's on you. If you read the email to jr, you'd know exactly why there's a problem with it. But it makes you wonder why they lied about it in the first place. Well, it makes me wonder. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 10:07:46 Also, is it a crime for someone affiliated with a campaign to take a meeting with someone who is affiliated with a foreign government who sets up the meeting to pass along what they consider to be potentially damaging information on a political opponent when in fact they had no damaging information, but rather they set the meeting up to discuss another matter they wanted addressed; a recent law passed regarding Russian adoptions? If you believe that, then that's on you. Believe what? |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 11:01:36 The bottom line to what takes up to 75 of the conversations on here, deal with situations in which we do not have all the facts. All we have are what we read and watch from numerous resources, all of which have their own political bias to one degree or another. Isn't it correct that of all the charges and guilty pleas brought so far, only two have anything to do with Trump and the 2016 election? And those two are based on a prosecutor's interpretation of an election law? Nothing's been adjudicated by a jury or judge. So this is a back and forth based on our opinions and bias based on unreliable and often times proven to be false information, correct? |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 11:08:22 605255444352457A56455C370 wrote:
If you believe that the trump tower meeting was about russian adoptions. It wasn't and the email to jr proves it. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 11:11:24 What email? |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 11:20:33 112324353223340B27342D460 wrote:
Let's be real for one moment mark. You know darn well- if this was an email to hillary - the right would have gone bonkers. Or had it been unearthed on Obama while he was president, there would have been impeachment hearings faster than you can blink. I'll keep saying it - this isn't about me hating trump - this is about showing the hypocrisy that is obvious to everyone but him and his followers. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 11:30:26 Perhaps, but in this case (trump tower meeting) all the facts are out there on the table. It was lied about, plain and simple. The invite to jr was taken by him to get dirt on hillary. From gladstone: "This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin." From jr (20 mins later): "Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing next week when I am back?" Yea, I've read this. And the woman had nothing and wanted to talk about some Russian adoption law instead. He to.d all tnis and turned over these emails to Congress or some other investigation. When the NY Times ask him, he told them the meeting was about a Russian adoption law and said nothing about what e thought the meeting was about. Is this what you're talking about? |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 11:32:48 real for one moment mark. You know darn well- if this was an email to hillary - the right would have gone bonkers. Yep. So? |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 11:36:24 023037262130271834273E550 wrote:
Yes... this is what I'm talking about. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 11:37:16 and we would have had one network "on our side" , not 7....NBC, CBs, ABC, PBS, BBC, CNN, MsNBC.... And do you the DeNiro would be accepting awards with a "F Obama" intro to wild applause? Would virtually the entire entertainment culture have united against Hilary? No. The issue would have died. Like Fast and Furious for example. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by raydawg on 08/29/18 at 11:38:29 Web, you read the whole article? This part: Davis's firm provided political advice to a pro-Russian party in Ukraine during the parliamentary elections of 2006. McCain, on the other hand, backed President Viktor Yushchenko, a Western-oriented reformer who led 2004's Orange Revolution, which overturned what he and his allies considered an election stolen by the party helped by Davis's firm. McCain visited Ukraine to boost Yushchenko after he won a new election and even nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize. Is that meddling in politics of another country? And again, this is Paul Manafort firm. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 11:43:02 Yeah, he was lying. Not hard to believe that a trump would lie. Is this what you're talking about? Yes... this is what I'm talking about. Wait....... all this is about not telling a reporter the details of a private and confidential meeting?!!!!!! Seriously? That's it? I thought you had something I didn't know about. Who gives a crap what Ttump Jr tells the press about a private meeting. That's not a lie. He told the investigators what really happened and gave them the email chain. I'm a bit surprised you and apparently CNN think this is significant. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by raydawg on 08/29/18 at 11:47:06 Got dirt? Gee, wasn’t that the purpose of the Dossier from Steele? |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 11:53:47 0B393E2F28392E113D2E375C0 wrote:
And you don't? I wonder, had this been a hillary meeting, how would you have reacted? If this had been uncovered on Obama while he was president, I wonder what would have happened? Like I said, keep it real. The intent of the email is as plain as orange nose on trump's face. What was said in the meeting will never be known. jr acted on the invite to get dirt on clinton from a russian national. But yeah, since it's trump, you're ok with it. I understand. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 11:56:01 53405845405646210 wrote:
Yes, it was. But it was executed via a third party and not covered up/lied about. hillary was working above board. the trumpsters weren't. Huge difference ray. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 11:57:30 526067767160774864776E050 wrote:
So what's good for one is not for the other? Pretty much the definition of hypocrisy. But at least you admit it. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 12:12:15 Wait....... all this is about not telling a reporter the details of a private and confidential meeting?!!!!!! Seriously? That's it? That's not enough?? No! Are you under the impression politicians don't withhold information from reporters? And are you saying withholding that information is lying? And that 'lie' is actionable in a court of law? |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 12:13:16 312F20212C312A37450 wrote:
Yes, it was. But it was executed via a third party and not covered up/lied about. hillary was working above board. the trumpsters weren't. Huge difference ray.[/quote] Nobody lied. Not tell the press all the details is not a lie. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 12:17:00 1B292E3F38293E012D3E274C0 wrote:
Yes, it was. But it was executed via a third party and not covered up/lied about. hillary was working above board. the trumpsters weren't. Huge difference ray.[/quote] Nobody lied. Not tell the press all the details is not a lie. [/quote] How can you say nobody lied when there is no way the public will ever know what was discussed in that meeting? The only thing we have to go on that is concrete is the email exchange. What was said or not said is impossible to prove. You're only fooling yourself here mark. There's probably a good reason they covered it up in the first place. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 12:21:19 605255444352457A56455C370 wrote:
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 12:22:01 How can you say nobody lied when there is no way the public will ever know what was discussed in that meeting? The only thing we have to go on that is concrete is the email exchange. What was said or not said is impossible to prove. You're only fooling yourself here mark. There's probably a good reason they covered it up in the first place. How do you know what anyone spoke about in a private meeting? Seriously, you've judged him guilty because you don't like his father. You have nothing to go on. In fact, what you have to go one, his testimony to the congressional investigators, you are totally ignoring. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 12:31:46 5D6F68797E6F78476B78610A0 wrote:
No, again, it's not about his testimony. He could be lying, he could be telling the truth. The only rock-solid piece of this whole thing is the email exchange between him and gladstone. It shows intent. Nothing more, nothing less. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by verslagen1 on 08/29/18 at 12:53:02 7D636C6D607D667B090 wrote:
Yes, it was. But it was executed via a third party and not covered up/lied about. hillary was working above board. the trumpsters weren't. Huge difference ray.[/quote] If it was so above ground then why disguise the payments as legal services? |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 13:03:20 No, again, it's not about his testimony. He could be lying, he could be telling the truth. The only rock-solid piece of this whole thing is the email exchange between him and gladstone. It shows intent. Nothing more, nothing less. Intent for a legal activity. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 13:25:47 6B786F6E717C7A78732C1D0 wrote:
Yes, it was. But it was executed via a third party and not covered up/lied about. hillary was working above board. the trumpsters weren't. Huge difference ray.[/quote] If it was so above ground then why disguise the payments as legal services?[/quote] It wasn't. It was called opposition research and the clinton campaign hired Marc Elias for it. In April 2016, Elias hired Fusion GPS to perform opposition research on trump. It's a convoluted story for sure. But suffice it to say, one was out in public, the other (trump) was being done in secret. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 13:27:56 576562737465724D61726B000 wrote:
That remains to be seen. Is collusion legal? And again, not to beat a dead horse - but if this were a dem, you think there'd be no outrage? |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 14:04:53 That remains to be seen. Is collusion legal? Collusion has a legal definition that I would think varies according to the circumstance. I had a job once for a non-profit credit organization. Industry groups (truck rental companies, furniture rentals, tux rental industries for example) would get together and share information on business scams they were seeing, new current credit card scams, and even specific individual names and/or company names who had ripped them off. The idea is if some crook figures out how to steal money using fake names, that info is passed along to the group so they know what to watch for. Now, since everyone in the group is in the same industry, the temptation to 'collude' in various ways is always present. Price fixing, directing the market in one direction etc...My role in those meetings was to remind everyone in the beginning about the specific anti-trust regulations in effect at the time. This is going back a long time, but you may recall price fixing charges brought against ADM... My job was to attend these meetings, observe and listen. They were mostly at lunch so I got a lot of great free food! The point is collusion, in and of itself, is not illegal. At these meetings, companies could 'collude' in the sense they spoke in detail about their experiences collecting past due money and developed procedures they all put into effect in order to reduce fraud within the industry. So no, collusion in and of itself, is not illegal. And again, not to beat a dead horse - but if this were a dem, you think there'd be no outrage? And you wouldn't be saying a word. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by WebsterMark on 08/29/18 at 14:12:14 Oh and by the way, I don't think you can charge the President with obstruction and I'm not sure if you charge him with collusion. The story about no man being above the law isn't necessarily true. The President is. He can't be charged with crimes you and I could be. He can however be impeached. That's the remedy. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 14:25:49 0A383F2E29382F103C2F365D0 wrote:
I guess we'll never know. But you'll never see me defending hillary either. So there's that. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 14:27:58 1E2C2B3A3D2C3B04283B22490 wrote:
And if the midterms go they way they seem to be - it's very likely that he'll be impeached. That or he'll resign. It like the summer of '74 when the party started to turn on nixon. They saw the coming bloodbath of the midterms and wanted him gone. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by raydawg on 08/29/18 at 15:46:49 584B5C5D424F494B401F2E0 wrote:
Yes, it was. But it was executed via a third party and not covered up/lied about. hillary was working above board. the trumpsters weren't. Huge difference ray.[/quote] If it was so above ground then why disguise the payments as legal services?[/quote] Versy, it was no conflict, look: Investigators are also probing Ohr’s relationship with Simpson. Ohr’s wife Nellie worked at Fusion as a Russian specialist and did research that formed part of the dossier. Government officials are not allowed to take actions in their official capacity that financially benefit family members, and Nellie was understood to be receiving significant income from Fusion GPS. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/29/18 at 16:42:29 covered up/lied about. hillary was working above board. the trump Yep, that's why she used a law firm to pay the liars. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by raydawg on 08/29/18 at 17:29:50 495650574A4D7C4C7C44565A11230 wrote:
And let’s remember the server too ;D That was sooooooo apparent and open :( |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 19:24:39 2B343235282F1E2E1E26343873410 wrote:
Liars? That remains to be seen. But at least she didn't do it in secret. She at least followed a traceable protocol. |
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Title: Re: Oh......but I thought???? Post by T And T Garage on 08/29/18 at 19:26:15 66756D70756373140 wrote:
And let’s remember the server too ;D That was sooooooo apparent and open :([/quote] Well ray, care to remind us how many indictments were made with the whole "server controversy"? Oh yeah - none. |
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