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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> democrats turn socialist /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1539988326 Message started by MnSpring on 10/19/18 at 15:32:06 |
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Title: democrats turn socialist Post by MnSpring on 10/19/18 at 15:32:06 This statement is so telling, it needs to be restated. Do NOT let the water get hotter. Take Rep. Maxine Waters, an influential Democrat who had this to say about civility toward the political opposition: "If you see anybody from that (Trump) Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd and you push back on them, and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere." "In addition to embracing violence and the denial of such basic constitutional rights as free speech, freedom of religion and the right to protect oneself, much of the Democratic Party now embraces a spate of far-left ideas. These include such winners as open borders, Medicare for all (single-payer health care), unrestricted abortion, special "gender" rights, free tuition, government controlled housing, deep and dangerous defense cuts, a job-killing $15-an-hour minimum wage, a “guaranteed income" for all, and ever-higher welfare spending. Meanwhile, the party's socialist-progressive wing, which now dominates, love-hugs all these ideas. And it’s actively anti-capitalist.” https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/democrats-turn-socialist/ |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by Eegore on 10/19/18 at 15:50:12 I wonder if someone is going to dig up some article about a Trump Supporter saying something similar and expect the conversation to go somewhere different than it has been for the past year. |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by LostArtist on 10/19/18 at 16:17:53 so, you're juxtaposing a statement by Maxine, which I disagree with, for the most part, leave people in peace, but at the same time you have the right to protest if you want, to a statement of policy ideas that YOU ascribe to ALL democrats.... you are quite the troll MN SPRINGS HOT AIR A LOT.... And you're stirring up the "lefties are violent" propaganda that we just put down here on this board for the sake of trying civil discussion... (at least that's what I think we did... ) if you want to talk the policies fine, let's talk, if you want to go down the "lefties are violent" road again, we've been doing that plenty for the last few days and you're just trolling, cause as Eegore says, we could go through all the statements YOUR LEADER, not just a representative said and says at his rallies and everywhere else and we'd just get nowhere, do you like that dead horse that much.... hope you're wearing a condom..... (yes, I'm saying you're the kind of person who would f u c k a dead horse) . |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by thumperclone on 10/19/18 at 16:37:54 aw yes the myna bird party |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by MnSpring on 10/19/18 at 16:39:26 LOST SAID: And you're stirring up the "lefties are violent" propaganda that we just put down here Guess you missed reading the: "...In addition to embracing violence ..." Which the second paragraph had other things in it. (Guess you decided to, 'miss', that) OK, you said: "if you want to talk the policies fine, let's talk," So, you agree with the things stated in the second paragraph ? |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/19/18 at 19:11:26 When influential lefties promote violence instead of condemn it, idiots follow. Finding some goofball redneck hollering for violence isn't the same. |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by LostArtist on 10/20/18 at 10:04:40 67787E7964635262526A78743F0D0 wrote:
so a goofball redneck isn't the same as an idiot??? if you can dismiss one, then you can dismiss the other |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by LostArtist on 10/20/18 at 11:19:33 1B380526243F3831560 wrote:
I agree with a few things, universal healthcare, I think the minimum wage is tricky (I'd like to see it linked to the inflation rate somehow), abortion until viability (or for the life of the mother,her choice), Tuition, maybe, at least some measures to reduce it's crazy rate of increase, and I'm open to free market ways of doing that that the government could encourage, so I'm not 100% on board with that but it's favorable to me, I think our military is already quite HUGE enough, I totally support our troops and think we should divert money from weapons into taking care of our veterans a LOT better, it'd be great to get out of a few wars while we're at it, on the borders.... idk, I'm kinda thinking we should give them all tax numbers and let them in, no, they don't get to be citizens, but they can work here legally, pay taxes like the rest of us (including medicare and SS that for them, might go into a separate account, idk, that is a bit tricky) but I'm not going to vilify them because they want a better, safer life for themselves and their family, as far as the "drug war" maybe legalizing that and taxing it would help, jailing millions of people for a little pot is a waste of resources. as far as a universal income.... as technology advances and robots and automation replace truck drivers, factory workers, waitresses, stock clerks, cashiers, etc.... we might have to rethink how we "earn" a living but that's a ways off and idk, I wouldn't die on that hill you know oh and some of these ideas would ideally reduce welfare spending or replace some of it, ideally, if the details are all worked out in the right way, I hope anyway and as I've stated before on SS I'm open to the full benefit age going up to 70 and eliminating the income cap on collecting payroll tax And no, I'm not anti capitalism. companies are going to need an educated, healthy workforce, one that can afford to buy products and participate in consumer activities to keep capitalism healthy. sure, there might have been a ton of democratic policies that screwed up healthcare and college, idk, it's possible, but let's focus on how to make a better world for us and our future instead of playing the whataboutism/ blame game. |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/18 at 15:40:40 0724383F0A393F22383F4B0 wrote:
so a goofball redneck isn't the same as an idiot??? if you can dismiss one, then you can dismiss the other[/quote] Maybe you can. The difference is Elected OFFICIALS have followers. One ignorant redneck doesn't. |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by LostArtist on 10/20/18 at 20:57:51 233C3A3D20271626162E3C307B490 wrote:
so a goofball redneck isn't the same as an idiot??? if you can dismiss one, then you can dismiss the other[/quote] Maybe you can. The difference is Elected OFFICIALS have followers. One ignorant redneck doesn't. [/quote] sometimes that one ignorant redneck has a TV show about duck calls, or a church leader, families, and some are business owners, ignorance is not exclusive to loner losers |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by MnSpring on 10/21/18 at 07:13:41 50736F685D6E68756F681C0 wrote:
I agree with a few things, universal healthcare, I think the minimum wage is tricky (I'd like to see it linked to the inflation rate somehow), abortion until viability (or for the life of the mother,her choice), So, ‘one size fits all’, kina person. Where a 50 year old overweight, smoking and drinking person, who has very frequent problems, and sees a doctor every 2-3 weeks. pays the SAME, as a 60 year old person, who is ’normal’ weight, does not smoke drink, eats healthy, and is not a, ‘couch potato’, and sees a doctor every 2-3 months. Sounds like universal healthcare to me. Make the ’symptom’ feel better, instead of fixing the, ‘problem’. When HC Insurances compete, and are NOT ALLOWED a Monopoly, (Like they are Now), they will lower prices. When they lower premiums, they will pay less to the the HC providers, then the HC Providers will stop charging $9.00 for a aspirin. “… abortion until viability…” So the description of, viability, is living outside the womb. So Abortion like it is now, where late term, the baby is turned, then pulled out, with Just the head inside the Womb, THEN IT IS KILLED. Simply because it is not, ‘born’ yet, so therefore it is, NOT, ‘viable’. I was brought up, that is NOT a act of War, so it is, MURDER. Tuition, maybe, at least some measures to reduce it's crazy rate of increase, and I'm open to free market ways of doing that that the government could encourage, so I'm not 100% on board with that but it’s favorable to me, AWSUM, FREE Collage Degree ! So then a medical doctor should get 15.00 a hour, because his/her education was FREE. A skyscraper engineer should get 15.00 a hour, because his/her education is FREE ? Ya get the point. Again the UL’s want to, ‘fix’ the symptom, instead of the ‘problem’. And the Problem is the schools that want more money, to pay for the assistant secretary, to the principals assistant secretary, who needs a assistant secretary. They are NOT, paying to TEACH. They are paying outrageous salaries to professors who are ’tenured’, and teach one hour a week. I think our military is already quite HUGE enough, I totally support our troops and think we should divert money from weapons into taking care of our veterans a LOT better, it'd be great to get out of a few wars while we’re at it, Symptom, not Problem. Problem: WE, the USA, are ‘Protecting’, all those, ‘Civilized’ countries, so they don’t have to spend money on Defense. they can spend it on, free eye glasses. (etc) Fix problem: Spend money on US, Not the rest, then the Defense budget will go down. on the borders.... idk, I'm kinda thinking we should give them all tax numbers and let them in, no, they don't get to be citizens, but they can work here legally, pay taxes like the rest of us (including medicare and SS that for them, might go into a separate account, idk, that is a bit tricky) but I'm not going to vilify them because they want a better, safer life for themselves and their family, as far as the "drug war" maybe legalizing that and taxing it would help, jailing millions of people for a little pot is a waste of resources. Legal Immigrants, are totally different than, Illegal Immigrants. Yet the UL’s constantly LIE. Legal Immigrants are what built this country. Illegal Immigrants, are tearing it apart. No need for a, ‘wall’ just a piece of string, with a sign on it. “War on Drugs’, how’s that working ? Tax Drugs. OK, then what to do with the dealers on the street corners, who, DO NOT pay the tax ? Solution, round up, punish, deport, (deport the majority), of drug sellers. But the Socialistic UL Fairy Dust Sprinklers, Cry about it. So it is not done. (It could be very easily) Legalizing pot. Yea, many States have done it. The result, that, ‘company’, will pay tax to the State. That industry will blossom, and independent resellers will, (in that State) hire/pay tax. And the Rest of the States, can get THC filled ‘gummy bears’, out of a trunk, all day long. And those people, do NOT pay taxes. as far as a universal income.... as technology advances and robots and automation replace truck drivers, factory workers, waitresses, stock clerks, cashiers, etc.... we might have to rethink how we "earn" a living but that’s a ways off and idk, I wouldn't die on that hill you know Yep, the Brain Surgeon and the Garbage hauler, each get 15.00 a hour. What, you say it’s not fair ? Why not ? Remember you said, FREE Education. So the Garbage Hauler, would make more money, after all he Worked and got Paid for 10 Years. While the Brain Surgeon had to go the FREE school. oh and some of these ideas would ideally reduce welfare spending or replace some of it, ideally, if the details are all worked out in the right way, I hope anyway Got-a-ol-big-bag of, ‘Fairy Dust’ ? and as I've stated before on SS I'm open to the full benefit age going up to 70 and eliminating the income cap on collecting payroll tax So, ‘Forced’ Saving. That is what SS is. So you are, ‘Forced’, to pay 6% of your income, up to 130,000 into a fund, you have to wait until you are 62 to get ’some’ back, or to 66 to get, ’some’ more back. You are NOT, allowed to create your Own, ’saving fund to replace the, ‘Forced’ fund. Yet if you make over 130,000 a year, (today, the earning caps and age caps, have changed several times), everyone, ’supposes’, you are smart enough to make a, additional, ’saving/retirement, fund. You think that, someone making 130,000.00 and up a year, also need to put in 6% in the ‘forced’ saving fund? That, could be very interesting, and the Politicians would REALLY salivate over that pile of money. No telling what ‘pork’ projects could be funded. And no, I'm not anti capitalism. companies are going to need an educated, healthy workforce, one that can afford to buy products and participate in consumer activities to keep capitalism healthy. This can happen with FREE Education ? (and if something is Free, what is it worth ?) And ‘universal’ healthcare, where their is absolutely NO incentive for a person to do anything, which will benefit long term. It is ONLY, live for the Moment. Remember that, when you were a Kid ? (Just like the UL’s Socialists want you to continue to do) sure, there might have been a ton of democratic policies that screwed up healthcare and college, idk, it's possible, but let's focus on how to make a better world for us and our future instead of playing the whataboutism/ blame game. “…might have been a ton of democratic policies…” MIGHT have been ????? They exist, that is why they Need to be Fixed. The, adults are trying to FIX them. But the UL Socialist, Fairy Dust Sprinkling kids, are in the way. Standing in the street and Crying ! |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by LostArtist on 10/21/18 at 09:22:05 1F3C0122203B3C35520 wrote:
I agree with a few things, universal healthcare, I think the minimum wage is tricky (I'd like to see it linked to the inflation rate somehow), abortion until viability (or for the life of the mother,her choice), So, ‘one size fits all’, kina person. Where a 50 year old overweight, smoking and drinking person, who has very frequent problems, and sees a doctor every 2-3 weeks. pays the SAME, as a 60 year old person, who is ’normal’ weight, does not smoke drink, eats healthy, and is not a, ‘couch potato’, and sees a doctor every 2-3 months. Sounds like universal healthcare to me. Make the ’symptom’ feel better, instead of fixing the, ‘problem’. When HC Insurances compete, and are NOT ALLOWED a Monopoly, (Like they are Now), they will lower prices. When they lower premiums, they will pay less to the the HC providers, then the HC Providers will stop charging $9.00 for a aspirin. okay, ONE AT A TIME cause that's just too long to deal with so, you are jumping to a HUGE conclusion here. as you do. you make it into the worst case scenario just to make your argument sound the least bit reasonable. and you continue to repeat that pattern on ALL of these issues. so it's useless to debate you because to you, everything is black and white, extreme of everything, i say I'd like some education attached to guns for sale, you say I want to confiscate and ban all guns and think people don't deserve to protect themselves... and now all this ... so, depending on how you respond to my response here, will determine if I bother doing the others. I'm going to start with your second point first, cause we have some agreement on that. so you agree that the current, or well, before the ACA, private insurance status wasn't working. I wasn't opposed to opening the state lines for insurance companies, but most studies say that wouldn't have really done enough. And there were a few states that allowed that already and there was no statistically relevant difference in the cost of care there. the biggest problem with insurance, of all kinds, is that it's model is innately flawed. Insurance makes money when you ,the customer, doesn't get what you paid for. They make money when they don't have to pay the doctor, the auto repair place, the roofer, etc... currently they use a "risk pool" to cover expenses when they have to make them. this starts to address your first point, So to get a real average and baseline for America, let's expand that risk pool out to everyone. Then we can get a realistic baseline to recommend for people, but, no, no one is forcing anyone to go to the doctor or anything like that so there's still going to be some inaccuracy. And then private insurance can still be bought to fill out the extra care some people need over others. I'd love to see the ability to shop for care be a ton more transparent, like the other services or products in our society. I want a price tag beside and MRI BEFORE I buy it, I want the ability to wave off tests BEFORE the doctor does them, if 3 stitches is going to cost $2000, I'll try to $1 superglue first okay... but we don't have that with today's insurance or doctors. that marketplace isn't working because people can't make decisions like that, the costs are hidden. and a final question to you, does a rich person deserve to live more than a poor person? Do we continue to let people die because they can't pay? and before you jump on me for using extremes against you like I claimed you did against me, remember who started that. so, I'm open to trying to figure this out, like really figuring it out, and I don't mind paying taxes to help someone else get healthcare, I pay insurance premiums to help someone else get healthcare. and if the government can do it with a 5% administrative overhead vs the insurance companies 30% administrative cost not to mention marketing and other crap.. then let's figure out a way to do it and keep it reasonable and accountable. I don't have all the answers or anything, but those that support the pre-ACA insurance crap, sorry, can't trust them |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/21/18 at 09:42:42 1E3D21261320263B2126520 wrote:
so a goofball redneck isn't the same as an idiot??? if you can dismiss one, then you can dismiss the other[/quote] Maybe you can. The difference is Elected OFFICIALS have followers. One ignorant redneck doesn't. [/quote] sometimes that one ignorant redneck has a TV show about duck calls, or a church leader, families, and some are business owners, ignorance is not exclusive to loner losers [/quote] You're totally ignorant about the Robertson family. Truth is Upper level democrats are telling people to be aggressive. |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by MnSpring on 10/21/18 at 10:54:07 4F6C70774271776A7077030 wrote:
And I see it is useless to debate you. Cause ya just don’t understand how things work in real life. Example: “…were a few states that allowed that already and there was no statistically relevant difference…” Ya, and, WHO, told you that ? But that’s OK, Competition, will NOT Lower prices, just cause you say so. And I see it is useless to debate you. Cause ya just don’t understand how things work in real life. “…people can’t make decisions like that, the costs are hidden…” Unless it is a emergency, and the HC giver, RAPES you, while they are healing you. You ASK !!!!! And I see it is useless to debate you. Cause ya just don’t understand how things work in real life. “… i say I’d like some education attached to guns for sale, you say I want to confiscate and ban all guns…” Gee, last time you bought a MC or Car, did the seller tell you to drive with your eyes open ????????? I’m guessing, you should move to So Calf. More people their that think like you. "...cause that's just too long to deal with..." |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by LostArtist on 10/21/18 at 20:15:24 382721263B3C0D3D0D35272B60520 wrote:
so a goofball redneck isn't the same as an idiot??? if you can dismiss one, then you can dismiss the other[/quote] Maybe you can. The difference is Elected OFFICIALS have followers. One ignorant redneck doesn't. [/quote] sometimes that one ignorant redneck has a TV show about duck calls, or a church leader, families, and some are business owners, ignorance is not exclusive to loner losers [/quote] You're totally ignorant about the Robertson family. Truth is Upper level democrats are telling people to be aggressive. [/quote] and the president is cheering on body slamming reporters and looking the other way as the Saudi's kill reporters, the president urged people at a rally to be aggressive and rough up protesters there, Ted Nugent caraictured raping Clinton with a gun...., and the President mocked and makes fun of victims, being aggressive vocally is totally within your first amendment rights, you have the right to tell our elected leaders and those they appoint what you think, or maybe you son't really support the first amendment... |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by LostArtist on 10/21/18 at 20:32:51 2F0C3112100B0C05620 wrote:
And I see it is useless to debate you. Cause ya just don’t understand how things work in real life. Example: “…were a few states that allowed that already and there was no statistically relevant difference…” Ya, and, WHO, told you that ? But that’s OK, Competition, will NOT Lower prices, just cause you say so. then why is that the cry of the republicans? again and again and again I hear we must protect our capitalist system because competition lowers prices and the profit motive makes better products... This is what YOUR SIDE says to me, and I agree, the high cost of healthcare is much much more complicated than just competition, which is why Obama rejected the whole buying over state lines proposal of the republicans And I see it is useless to debate you. Cause ya just don’t understand how things work in real life. “…people can’t make decisions like that, the costs are hidden…” Unless it is a emergency, and the HC giver, RAPES you, while they are healing you. You ASK !!!!! talking about not understanding how things work, you can ask all you want but they won't actually tell you, cause they don't know, they have to send it out to get negogiated on via insurance this and insurance that and this lab and this network, and I'm trapped in a network that my company chose regardless of my own individual desires. and the doctor doesn't know the prices of prescriptions or any of that stuff either. I know my co-pay, but I don't know what the actual bill is that the my doctor sends to my ins company, and whether I should shop around for a cheaper doctor, and then if I do, how many choices should I look at, how many copies of my medical records do I need, and how much will that cost me? so please don't tell me that the price of everything for healthcare is transparent and easy to find out. And I see it is useless to debate you. Cause ya just don’t understand how things work in real life. “… i say I’d like some education attached to guns for sale, you say I want to confiscate and ban all guns…” Gee, last time you bought a MC or Car, did the seller tell you to drive with your eyes open ????????? first, you have to have a motorcycle or driver's license to operate a vehicle, so it's your responsibility to have those skills educated into you BEFORE you go driving, so that education is mandated before you get legal permission to ride or drive. and I know it's a common discussion among motorcycle dealers about not letting that new 18 year old kid get on a 1000 cc supersport bike and there's often a discussion about whether they are ready for it or not while they are showing them the bike, I've seen this I’m guessing, you should move to So Calf. More people their that think like you. "...cause that's just too long to deal with..." [/quote] listen, there are only so many hours in the day and I actually usually have better things to do |
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Title: Re: democrats turn socialist Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/22/18 at 10:21:14 that’s OK, Competition, will NOT Lower prices, just cause you say so. Do you understand WHY laws exist to keep monopolies from existing? Do you remember what a telephone cost before they broke up AT AND T? This is probably the DUMBEST statement I've seen here. Competition doesn't necessarily lower prices. That's IGNERNT. If you had a product to sell, wouldn't you rather be the sole source of that? Yes, you would. Because nobody would be competing for customers. |
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