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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Well look here, I amend it.... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1540934919 Message started by raydawg on 10/30/18 at 14:28:39 |
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Title: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by raydawg on 10/30/18 at 14:28:39 Ok, I will put this out for debate. Fix the constitution to remove citizenship by mere birth in our nation. Yes? Fix the constitution to clarify what kind of firearms are legal to own without certain restrictions, yes? Both are viable and ripe, neither right granted then applies in the same manner as when enacted. Show me your stubbornness [ch128523] |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/30/18 at 14:37:31 Fix the constitution to remove citizenship by mere birth in our nation. Yes? Nothing needs fixed. It doesn't do that now. Unless you CHOOSE to pretend it says something it doesn't say. |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by LostArtist on 10/30/18 at 14:49:17 um...it's the first sentence of the 14th amendment " All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by T And T Garage on 10/30/18 at 14:54:11 Amend the Second, leave the Fourteenth. "Leave the gun... take the cannoli" |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by verslagen1 on 10/30/18 at 15:01:45 A number of scifi movies/shows have poised the point. Earn citizenship by serving in some manner or buying it? It suggests that every person is not equal and will create at least a 2 or 3 class system. Not to say we don't have it already, but even the poorest at birth can with enough money be president. |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/30/18 at 17:41:20 and subject to the jurisdiction thereof That's the part that causes illegals and tourists to be able to take them home. America has no right or obligation to children of foreign citizens. |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by Eegore on 10/31/18 at 08:25:22 "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" Can you clarify further? As it has been applied this means anyone who US law applies to. For instance Diplomatic Immunity considered under the 14th's structure, by not having them subject to jurisdiction they can have children here and the US can consider them foreign. Are illegal immigrants not subject to the jurisdiction of US law? |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by LostArtist on 10/31/18 at 08:49:45 746B6D6A7770417141796B672C1E0 wrote:
um, that's not how that works.... because the second sentence says: " No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." person, not citizen, it clearly says citizen in the first part of the sentence, so it knows the difference and makes a distinction here. do we not prosecute illegal criminals HERE if they commit crimes here, like murder? so are they or are they not under our jurisdiction if they are here? now that is why we deny diplomats that right, they have diplomatic immunity and therefor are NOT under our jurisdiction, and people can take their kids anywhere they want What constitutional rights do undocumented immigrants have? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-constitutional-rights-do-undocumented-immigrants-have |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by Serowbot on 10/31/18 at 09:04:04 Conservatives carry around pocket Constitutions with 1 amendment they like, and 26 they don't... ;D |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by WebsterMark on 10/31/18 at 11:22:31 Read articles about the debates at the time. This is just like the 2nd Amendment. There was no misunderstanding what the Amendment meant. Senator Howard’s brief introduction of his amendment confirmed its plain meaning: “Mr. HOWARD. … This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.”[21] |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by LostArtist on 10/31/18 at 12:14:57 6E5C5B4A4D5C4B74584B52390 wrote:
and yet, we have a century of court cases, including supreme court cases that confirm that if you are born here, you are a citizen here. |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/31/18 at 14:13:25 Which demonstrates that the supreme court has been Wrong. A kid passing eighth grade English knows better. |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by WebsterMark on 10/31/18 at 14:21:58 I heard something else today I need to read up on some more. Leftist like to paint this picture about the Statue of Liberty, Ellis Island etc... how we opened our arms welcoming all.....Give us your huddled masses....blah blah blah... I didn't know this but before any potential immigrant got on a boat coming here, they had to pass a couple health test one of which was were they physically able to work hard enough to support themselves. Another was some eye test to detect some communicable disease. Once they got here, they had to take more test and if found lacking, they were sent back at the ship's expense. Which is why many were rejected before they even got on the boat. |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by LostArtist on 10/31/18 at 14:30:27 46595F5845427343734B59551E2C0 wrote:
if it had just been one time, sure, but it has been tested over time, and from even BEFORE the 14th amendment was passed Supreme Court set clear precedent on birthright citizenship https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/414032-supreme-court-set-clear-precedent-on-birthright-citizenship and you're right the supreme court can be wrong, and has, many times, this however, isn't one of them. from the Wiki: "Original meaning During the original debate over the 14th Amendment Senator Jacob M. Howard of Michigan—the sponsor of the Citizenship Clause—described the clause as having the same content, despite different wording, as the earlier Civil Rights Act of 1866, namely, that it excludes American Indians who maintain their tribal ties and "persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."[58] Others also agreed that the children of ambassadors and foreign ministers were to be excluded.[59][60] However, concerning the children born in the United States to parents who are not U.S. citizens (and not foreign diplomats), three senators, including Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lyman Trumbull, the author of the Civil Rights Act, as well as President Andrew Johnson, asserted that both the Civil Rights Act and the 14th Amendment would confer citizenship on them at birth, and no senator offered a contrary opinion.[61][62][63]" |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by LostArtist on 10/31/18 at 14:31:58 043631202736211E322138530 wrote:
you're right, there was no misunderstanding: From the Wiki: "Original meaning During the original debate over the 14th Amendment Senator Jacob M. Howard of Michigan—the sponsor of the Citizenship Clause—described the clause as having the same content, despite different wording, as the earlier Civil Rights Act of 1866, namely, that it excludes American Indians who maintain their tribal ties and "persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."[58] Others also agreed that the children of ambassadors and foreign ministers were to be excluded.[59][60] However, concerning the children born in the United States to parents who are not U.S. citizens (and not foreign diplomats), three senators, including Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lyman Trumbull, the author of the Civil Rights Act, as well as President Andrew Johnson, asserted that both the Civil Rights Act and the 14th Amendment would confer citizenship on them at birth, and no senator offered a contrary opinion.[61][62][63]" |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by LostArtist on 10/31/18 at 15:16:52 so, this is an interested debate, and I do agree that there is some debate to be had here, now I feel it's pretty clear, but I understand that there language is interpreted by us all differently, so I intend to do some research, but far better people than me have challenged and debated this before, under law, in Court, over more than a century.... and thus the default logic is what is, and sure, that can be wrong, hence the research... now I'd love to see if we can keep this from degrading into name calling or otherwise degrading each other by calling each other stupid... |
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Title: Re: Well look here, I amend it.... Post by LostArtist on 10/31/18 at 15:45:51 found a great YouTube on it from Yale: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsg6kSPK3aQ[/media] I'm not through it all yet, but it seems good |
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