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General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama admin
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Message started by Eegore on 01/04/19 at 07:07:20

Title: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama admin
Post by Eegore on 01/04/19 at 07:07:20

There's a lot of reporting about the immigrant child that died in US custody, and in response the information about the 18 children that died in custody during the Obama administration.

The most interesting part about the reports is the ages of the 18 immigrants who died in custody during that time, all aged between 24 and 49 years old.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/07/07/us-deaths-immigration-detention#

https://www.aclu.org/report/fatal-neglect-how-ice-ignores-death-detention

"Children" must be a loose term now. Anyone 49 and under is a child if in custody of ICE or CBP.

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by WebsterMark on 01/04/19 at 08:09:53

...or the illegals and smugglers who assist them didn't hit upon the idea of using children as essentially human shields and dragging them along.

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by Eegore on 01/04/19 at 08:50:20

I don't understand the connection.

People are reporting that 18 illegal immigrant children died while in CBP/ICE custody, but those 18 dead were clearly adults.

What do children in the custody of illegals or smugglers have to do with claims that children dies while in US custody?

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by WebsterMark on 01/04/19 at 08:54:23

I read your post incorrectly, my bad.

I don't know the answer.

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by WebsterMark on 01/04/19 at 08:57:05

Whose reporting 18 children died in custody?

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by Eegore on 01/04/19 at 09:01:13

"Reporting" may be the wrong word.

Its a trending topic in social media I found interesting due to how fast it spread, and how many people are bringing it up where I am.

How are children in the custody of smugglers and illegals connected to children in US custody?

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by WebsterMark on 01/04/19 at 09:03:28

How are children in the custody of smugglers and illegals connected to children in US custody?

If you found that other topic on social media you certainly already know the answer to that question.

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by Eegore on 01/04/19 at 09:16:28

"If you found that other topic on social media you certainly already know the answer to that question. "

I do not.

To clarify: Recent trending articles have been utilized in arguments regarding illegal immigration specifically about the recent underage death of an immigrant in CBP/ICE custody.

Those trending articles, tweets, posts, shares etc. claim 18 "children" died in ICE/CBP custody during the Obama Administration.

This information is incorrect unless "child" is anyone under the age of 49, as the 18 deaths were ages 24-49. These are specific to immigrants in US custody and not under the custody of any other organization, persons, country, or entity.

I do not see how the inaccurate labeling of adults specifically in ICE/CBP custody is connected to children accurately or inaccurately labeled while in the custody of anyone other that ICE or CBP.

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by WebsterMark on 01/04/19 at 09:30:19

It was mostly likely a single tweet or article that was wrong about the deaths and it took on a life of its own. Not like that's not happened before. One quick Google Search revealed its been 10 years between deaths.

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by WebsterMark on 01/04/19 at 09:39:30

This is an article from 2014. Imagine if a wall protected the border along with the magic electronic surveillance I keep hearing about. The laws of supply and demand would stop this. But a simple question needs to be asked but probably would be impossible to answer and that is how many children die (killed?) in the journey? With the promise of the new Congress stopping the wall, how many smugglers are using this to increase their business? Because of these two deaths, the Feds are promising medical care for any child they capture. Of course, they've probably always done this, but not it's taken on the nature of a political statement. Make it to the border, get across someone and the US will take care of you. This is not an act of compassion. This is an act of foolishness.

Who Is Smuggling Immigrant Children Across The Border?

John Burnett

Child detainees in a holding cell at a Border Patrol facility in Brownsville, Texas. Some human smugglers who bring children across the Rio Grande make sure to treat their clients well.

"They call me the Wolf," said the 25-year-old human smuggler sitting in front of me, sipping a Coke and stepping away for frequent cellphone calls.

"Everybody says we're the problem, but it's the reverse. The gringos don't want to get their hands dirty. So I bring them the Mexicans and Central Americans to do the dirty work for them," he says, smiling.

U.S. authorities claim that human smugglers like El Lobo (the wolf) are at the heart of the current border crisis because they have facilitated the travels of the 57,000 unaccompanied immigrant children who've been apprehended in South Texas since October.

"We cross them in inner tubes. If they're 3 or 4 years old, I have to cross them myself. I can't let them drown," he says.

The Wolf wears Reeboks with pink soles, a black polo shirt and a thin mustache. He's handsome in a bad-boy sort of way. We sit in an open-air lunchroom on a back street in Matamoros, across the river from Brownsville, Texas. He's explaining his rates: $2,500 from Chetumal, Mexico, all the way to Matamoros — 1,200 miles. The actual river crossing is another $500 to $1,000, "depending on the size of the kid."

The Wolf says he used to smuggle adults, but now he specializes in children because it's easier and just as profitable. First, his organization can take a group of Central American children in a bus through Mexico and more easily evade Mexican authorities, who are looking for adult immigrants to deport.

Second, once he crosses the Rio Grande he doesn't have to continue with the group to San Antonio or Houston — the most perilous part of the journey. "Children just give themselves up [to the Border Patrol]," he explains. "Adults have to flee."

In low tones, he confides that he is not part of the Gulf Cartel or Los Zetas, which control all river access on the Mexican side of the lower Rio Grande Valley. Like all freelance smugglers, to use the river he has to pay the cartel un derecho de piso, a user's fee, of 10 percent of the contract.

Federal border authorities demonize coyotes as ruthless criminals who kidnap, rape and abandon their clients. But it's more complicated than that. There are, to be sure, bad coyotes who do abuse their clients. But, as in any business, not everyone is the same.

Five years ago, I interviewed a petite, 29-year-old female coyote who worked out of Piedras Negras, Mexico, who was in high demand for her considerate treatment of her clients. This came to me from a local priest, who counted her among his congregation.

"Being known in the communities and having a good reputation matters," says David Spener, a sociologist at Trinity University in San Antonio, who has studied human smuggling networks along the U.S.-Mexico border. "I mean, would any parent in their right mind want to leave their child in the hands of Los Zetas?"

I ask El Lobo about the terrible reputation coyotes have in the media.

"We specialize in smuggling young kids — 13 and below," he explains. "The youngest we've smuggled was 2 years old. We have to make sure nothing happens to them, that they eat, that they're protected and they arrive well."

He continues, "We try to treat our clients well, and this helps to get us repeat business. If you have a good reputation, you get more work."

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by Eegore on 01/04/19 at 10:31:45

That article accurately represents children as those under 18 and not 24 to 49.

The information I am hearing represents adults as children.

I find it interesting that humans have been circumventing physical walls for centuries but somehow this one will stop people faster. But as you made clear cost is no issue, manpower to maintain a wall is no issue so by that logic a physical wall is a solution. I don't share that logic as I do think cost should be part of any equation that uses American tax resources.

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by WebsterMark on 01/04/19 at 10:54:30

Israel has a wall, Hungary has a wall. We have a wall on part of border now. Berlin had a wall. The Vatican has a big wall.

The idea walls don’t work is ridiculous.

You lock your doors at home and your car knowing full well a determined few can circumvent your “wall” but you do it knowing it prevents widespread abuse.

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by MnSpring on 01/04/19 at 11:09:03

Here is a Idea.
All those that believe a ‘wall/surveillance’ is worthless.
PM me your address.

When I get a bunch, (have a place to Stay in Ajo AZ)
I’ll go to Tombstone, visit some Turquoise mines in Bisbee.
Then while their, will toss your address,
in some of the Arroyos,
saying you have no walls or fences,
and do not lock your doors.

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by Serowbot on 01/04/19 at 11:38:16

a wise man once said... ;D

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oP8H9nQKT4[/media]

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by Eegore on 01/04/19 at 13:22:19

"The idea walls don’t work is ridiculous."

I agree. I have not said walls don't work. I have said in certain situations an geographical locations a wall is less effective per dollar than alternative methods.

Since cost is not an issue according to you then any amount of money can be spent to make sure a wall is present in a high-cost low result location. I understand the logic, but I don't agree that taxpayer money should be used in less efficient methods.

"You lock your doors at home and your car knowing full well a determined few can circumvent your “wall” but you do it knowing it prevents widespread abuse."

Sort of. I do not spend triple the amount of my current lock on my door to install more physical locks on every door on my property. I spend less to add motion sensor lights hooked to cameras that alert direct to my phone and central security program, all with battery back-up.

So I don't add more locks and walls and fences, I compliment them with more effective methods because I get more reliable security for less investment.

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by Eegore on 01/04/19 at 13:24:25

"Here is a Idea.
All those that believe a ‘wall/surveillance’ is worthless.
PM me your address.

When I get a bunch, (have a place to Stay in Ajo AZ)
I’ll go to Tombstone, visit some Turquoise mines in Bisbee.
Then while their, will toss your address,
in some of the Arroyos,
saying you have no walls or fences,
and do not lock your doors."

Here's an idea.
Lets pretend that anybody here is actually saying that there should be no walls, fences or border control of any kind so your idea makes sense.

Title: Re: 18 children died in CBP custody during Obama a
Post by LostArtist on 01/04/19 at 14:01:28

a rope might work, I mean, illegal immigration is down significantly but sure, let's waste money on a wall....