SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> I Think This Is Why They Left
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1548290136

Message started by T And T Garage on 01/23/19 at 16:35:36

Title: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by T And T Garage on 01/23/19 at 16:35:36

It's just not defensible anymore.

The conservatives simply can't continue to defend this man anymore.

So sad that they'd rather abandon ship (on the Tall Table) than just accept reality. They're only lying to themselves. It's fitting, I suppose, that they're acting just like trump himself.

Overall, 65 percent of adults surveyed in a new AP-NORC poll said they disapproved of Trump’s job performance, while just 34 percent said they approved. Just one month earlier, before Trump made his demand that Congress approve $5.7 billion for partial construction of a border barrier, 56 percent of Americans polled by AP-NORC said they disapproved of Trump’s job performance, while 42 percent said they approved.

Among the worrisome findings for Trump and Republicans in the AP-NORC poll: 71 percent of independents, 71 percent of women and 76 percent of college graduates said they disapproved of Trump’s job performance. Trump’s disapproval rate jumped by double digits with each of those three groups when compared with the results of December’s poll.

On Jan. 10, a Gallup poll found disapproval of Trump had reached 59 percent, while 37 percent of those surveyed said they approved of his job performance.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-disapproval-grows-shutdown-drags-onward-225159693.html

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by Eegore on 01/24/19 at 05:30:00

Maybe it's because adult conversation hasn't been around for about a year.

How many times have we had the "lets be civil" post followed with "I know I'm part of the problem" only to go back to insults while blaming other people for what we choose to type.

More than there should have been.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by T And T Garage on 01/24/19 at 05:39:37

4666646C7166030 wrote:

Maybe it's because adult conversation hasn't been around for about a year.

You're probably right. I confess to being badgering at the very least.

How many times have we had the "lets be civil" post followed with "I know I'm part of the problem" only to go back to insults while blaming other people for what we choose to type.

More than there should have been.

True. I guess it's a matter of where do we go from here...?

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by Eegore on 01/24/19 at 05:58:59

If history was to be taken into account I would say right back to insulting each other as soon as there is a disagreement.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by T And T Garage on 01/24/19 at 08:07:25

6747454D5047220 wrote:

If history was to be taken into account I would say right back to insulting each other as soon as there is a disagreement.

Well, let's hope not.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by LostArtist on 01/24/19 at 13:35:37

79595B534E593C0 wrote:

it's been way way way more than a year

oh, and it takes buy in from both sides to make the civility thing work, until then it's just a fight to win, and when one side feels justified and celebrates being anti "PC"

and yes, I have a lot of work to do, but at least I admit it. that's step one.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by Eegore on 01/24/19 at 16:16:33

"oh, and it takes buy in from both sides to make the civility thing work"

I don't believe that.

I require zero participation on your part for me to treat you civilly and with respect here. I have zero expectation that you do the same to me, I am not dependent in any way upon your behavior in this forum.

All I have to do is be civil and my problem is solved.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by Trippah on 01/24/19 at 16:29:01

I left sick of the crap the so called conservatives were applying to non civil discourse. Name calling, etc. Said I'd be back when I did my income taxes to post what the new tax code has done for or to me.

I grew up a conservative and generally am still one - with health care the major leftish turn in my philosophy..and that is because I hate pain and hate to see people in pain.

The fact that the Trumpeteers refused to actually answer a question is consistent with their leader, so while not an excusable behavior is at least understandable. Alas, what it really meant is that they would not listen to anything but the voice in their head, making discourse useless.

and least anyone think I would never say anything good about the Lying Sack of S**t that is Trump, at least there is movement in the Korean Peninsula issue.(The only positive thing possibly I've seen so far). The stock market growth is based on raping the nation's finances so while it is a temporary plus, in the end it will be another Love Canal.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by LostArtist on 01/24/19 at 18:26:55

624240485542270 wrote:

what problem?

seriously, look at my behavior here, yeah, sometimes I END the insults with worse insults, but I don't start out that way.

I'm not starting threads laughing at conservatives, I'm not starting threads making fun of political figures, I'm not using funny spelling and syntax to hide the insults and disrespect...

heck, half the time I agree with at least some aspect of the conservative argument on here, but because I'm not 100% on my hands and knees following their every whim they start sh!t

so, excuse me if I'm not on a high horse and actually indulge in real human conversation, you can keep lecturing from your stoic robot microphone podium and pretend you're better than me , and maybe you are......

sorry I haven't mastered your Vulcan emotionalessism

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by Eegore on 01/24/19 at 19:40:21

"what problem?"

The perception that in order to be civil on a forum one must be treated civil, to me that's a problem as it creates a stipulation that is completely beyond my control: that others act a specific way.

As such if I maintain the idea that civility requires two people then I always have an excuse to stop acting civil myself. I justify the inappropriate behavior through others. Once I negate the need for others to act in a way I feel is correct, then any actions I take are 100% my own.

I just don't agree that civility requires two people.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by LostArtist on 01/24/19 at 19:52:20

5676747C6176130 wrote:

how is treating others they way they are treating you inappropriate?

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by Eegore on 01/24/19 at 20:01:22

"how is treating others they way they are treating you inappropriate?"

For me it is inappropriate to act in a way that is not conducive to my goals as a person interacting among others.

If a woman punches me I do not punch her back, if a 5 year old hits me in the testicles I do not hit him back, if a man drunk and unable to defend himself punches me I do not punch him back, I just use superior methods to diffuse and disengage.

Verbal interactions are less of an issue. Beyond causing a safety issue among others I could care less what people say to or about me as it does nothing to me. Someone calling me an idiot just doesn't do anything, I have no measurable way to justify it's impact upon my life.

Digital interactions are the furthest from my concern, as the typed interactions are literally 100% my choice to log in and read, so everything told to me on here is because I consent to it. So to me digital insults are essentially meaningless.

As such returning interactions enacted upon me in the same manner are inappropriate, for me, as I have no investment to my or others safety or well-being since the digital insults have zero actual effect upon the world around me.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by LostArtist on 01/24/19 at 20:12:17

4060626A7760050 wrote:

well, I'm sorry I don't measure up to you. you are far superior to me

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by MnSpring on 01/25/19 at 12:13:24

435D52535E435845370 wrote:

I Think This Is Why They Left

Can’t speak for others,

For myself, I have just spent several weeks,
listening to the same, ‘sky is falling’, crap,
propagated by the broadcast Tucson AZ, ’’’’News’’’’, Stations.
(Which Ajo gets)
So I understand better where Bot’s POV comes from.

Always knew tt’s POV, comes from, what-ever, TyT, ’’’reports’’’’.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by MShipley on 01/25/19 at 12:57:33

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by T And T Garage on 01/25/19 at 13:10:16

785B6645475C5B52350 wrote:

[quote author=435D52535E435845370 link=1548290136/0#0 date=1548290136] I Think This Is Why They Left

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by T And T Garage on 01/25/19 at 13:39:21

435D66677E626B770E0 wrote:

TT starts this post by saying people have left because we can't defend Trump. Everything goes to Trump, Everything is Trumps fault. Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. Trump has been in office for 2 years. But ALL THE PROBLEMS THIS COUNTRY FACES are his fault. The HATE is just.... sad.... there is NO conversation about anything on this forum... it is simply a testimony to everything that is wrong in our culture.

Here's a reminder of what this particular forum is about:

Politics, Religion (Tall Table)

This is an Loosely-Moderated Section. This means that you are responsible for you own behaviour and the content and tone of your discussions, but also the future of this Forum. While we will not actively moderate this forum, abusive behaviour and illegal activity will be shut down.

I come and read this stuff sometimes and sit and ask God, Please do not allow me to ever be so blind and filled with hate.

Well m, that's your prerogative. However, if you look at the history of this forum, you'd see that the likes of jog, pg, webstermark (and even yourself to some degree) have been doing the same thing on this forum. When Obama was in office, there was a non-stop beration of that man. In my opinion, it was unjustified.

But you'd be lying to yourself if you say that Obama had more scandal in his administration than trump. It's simply a fact that trump is lousy with scandal - both in his campaign and administration.

You cannot tell me that the blatant hypocrisy of the right doesn't exist. How many vacations to mar a lago has trump had? How many games of golf?

So you want to talk about something else than our president being corrupt? Be my guest.

But the truth is, there's pretty much nothing going on with the democrats that's not outshined by the right in terms of negativity. The GOP is in dire straits - which is why I think the majority of the conservatives have posted so much less lately. There isn't anything they can point to on the left that isn't far worse on the right.

If you dislike my posts - good for you - that's your right.

But in the future, maybe try to address me directly - talking about me in the third person is as rude as it is childish.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by MShipley on 01/25/19 at 14:02:51

Thank you again for proving my point true, the monotony is mind numbing.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by T And T Garage on 01/25/19 at 14:10:41

6D734849504C4559200 wrote:

Thank you again for proving my point true, the monotony is mind numbing.

You're welcome. Thank you for not disagreeing that you and the other conservatives are just as guilty.

If you want to see something other than the atrocities of trump - then post it.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by thumperclone on 01/25/19 at 16:25:17

when you don't lower yourself to their childish antics they get bored and find other venues for their rants
stay on the high ground
don't let them drag you into the sty they occupy
be civil and articulate your point without the foul language and name calling
then MAYBE we can have some intelligent debates

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by MnSpring on 01/25/19 at 17:24:27

504E41404D504B56240 wrote:

You cannot tell me that the blatant hypocrisy of the right doesn't exist.
If you want to see something other than the atrocities of trump - then post it.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by eau de sauvage on 01/25/19 at 18:21:37

4E505F5E534E55483A0 wrote:

...
So sad that they'd rather abandon ship (on the Tall Table) than just accept reality. ...

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by Eegore on 01/25/19 at 19:42:30

The funny thing is that we fought the good fight to stop the forum abuse, in the end Trump's supporters got their way and we just accept that personal abuse is all they got to offer. Then after winning this great forum victory they all fcuk off.

I don't think it was exclusively Trump supporters that used personal abuse as a communication method here.

I for one don't know why it's so heated here. It's just a motorcycle forum.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by T And T Garage on 01/25/19 at 20:01:54

5D7E436062797E77100 wrote:

[quote author=504E41404D504B56240 link=1548290136/15#16 date=1548452361] You cannot tell me that the blatant hypocrisy of the right doesn't exist.
If you want to see something other than the atrocities of trump - then post it.

(This is NOT about Trump)
So what do ‘you’ think about Pelosi’s Wall ?

If some people, breached her wall,
set up tents and sleeping bags in the middle of her vineyard.
And when her security came to kick them out,
they all demanded, food, housing, healthcare, and asylum.

What do you think, She, would do ?

(Remember now, this is not about Trump)[/quote]

Nice try, but that's a strawman. Pelosi's house/property is not the same as the border of our country. A private citizen is not the same as an entire country. She as a private citizen within our country cannot have sovereignty (meaning she doesn't run a country).

So to link the two situations together is silly.

Whether you like it or not, the fact is that nancy and all of Congress serve us. The represent us. In doing that, nancy is listening to the majority of her constituents and doing what we want her to.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by eau de sauvage on 01/26/19 at 00:49:20

735351594453360 wrote:

I don't think it was exclusively Trump supporters that used personal abuse as a communication method here.

I for one don't know why it's so heated here. It's just a motorcycle forum.

My experience here which is relatively recently was that I dropped in without any preconceptions or previous form at all. I was surprised at the consistent personal abuse and rather puerile posts from what turned out to be die hard trump supporters, or trolls, it's not really possible to tell. It's not unlikely that any or all of Mn, JoG, WM, and any I've missed, may just be having a larf.

Nevertheless if I take it seriously then it appears to me that like Trump himself, his avid supporters (and seriously why would anyone support a moron like that even if they agreed with his policies generally) do not have any rational arguments because even if Trump is right then he'll make it wrong. For example border security is perfectly legitimate but turning the entire complex issue into a frickin wall or no wall is idiotic.

What I meant was not to point a finger even though I've just done that but rather to say that in spite of all the above I made an attempt to drop the past and lets just cut the personal abuse. Oh how naive I was back in those days I chuckle to myself. Anyhoo I also noticed that others tried to cut the abuse unilaterally.

It mattered not. Because the bottom frickin line is that it's up to a moderator at some level to moderate. I proposed everyone agreeing to some mutually acceptable set of agreed behaviour code or whatever. Again looking back and what I now know it was a ridiculous notion.

But it appears to have evolved by itself because as the GOP have lost control as Trump has has his ability to bully, removed, so they have become less inclined to repeat Trump's bellicose, monotonous, twitter rantings. Which is I guess what this thread is about.

Trump allowed the worst aspects, the darker side of society the chance to be seen in public. It was not pretty. Can't wait to see how this lunacy ends.

Back to the abuse, it has just come to the point where no one really cares about JoG's MnSpring's WM etc, childish taunts because they're well they're just boring and childish and we've been there and done it to death.

http://https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by Trippah on 01/26/19 at 07:12:55

Wouldn't it be nice to have a sensible discussion about daca and her wall?

Can you imagine if the government suddenly decided the Ellis Island passway was really illegal and thus all of us we illegally brought in by our parents? I do not think the children should be punished; therefor they should be granted citizenship.

Now, perhaps this is rewarding illegal behavior so why not a restricted citizenship - the right to vote will be earned by either successful military service (age 18) or no criminal record till the age of 21 at which time voting rights will have been earned.

Children born in the US are citizens (full), and those brought into the nation already born are daca's.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by Trippah on 01/26/19 at 07:35:03

The migration of people fleeing civil wars, climate "change" etc is a difficult issue. We are not the only nation facing this with the depopulation of Syria, the decades old Palestinian camps, the Burma destruction of a minority. Brazil is getting hammered. The globe is full of pain and suffering.

What should we do. It may be time to shift our military adventurism from supporting global drug and oil monies and perhaps focus on establishing governments in central and south America that support their people. (sort of a more benign United Fruit from the 50's foreign policy). But through the OAS so all the lands including usa are following the same script. :o

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by Trippah on 01/26/19 at 07:37:39

I think this was the genius behind NAFTA - it allowed Mexico to build a more modern industrial base and the population shifted from going to the US and became going back to Mexico.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by MnSpring on 01/26/19 at 16:50:50

362827262B362D30420 wrote:

If you want to see something other than the atrocities of trump - then post it.

Rather apparent, YOU, actually don’t, “… want to see something other than the atrocities of trump…”

Because a post was made about a person that has totally reversed her opinion on a subject.
And YOU, made it about Trump.

Oh well, if tt says something is not correct,
no way can it be Right.

Title: Re: I Think This Is Why They Left
Post by T And T Garage on 01/26/19 at 17:33:36

6A497457554E4940270 wrote:

[quote author=362827262B362D30420 link=1548290136/15#18 date=1548454241]If you want to see something other than the atrocities of trump - then post it.

Rather apparent, YOU, actually don’t, “… want to see something other than the atrocities of trump…”

What someone else posts, doesn't matter to me.

Because a post was made about a person that has totally reversed her opinion on a subject.
And YOU, made it about Trump.

Did I? Tell me - where did I in the response to your post? Look at post #23 to refresh your memory.

I'd appreciate it if you'd stop lying about me.

Oh well, if tt says something is not correct,
no way can it be Right.
[/quote]
I'm flattered you're so fixated on me.
;D