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Message started by philthymike on 06/02/19 at 16:21:12

Title: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by philthymike on 06/02/19 at 16:21:12

I saw this here
https://bikebrewers.com/suzuki-ls650-scrambler/

Anyone know the gory details about swapping the gixxer front end onto an ls650?

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by Armen on 06/02/19 at 19:19:28

An outfit named Cognito Moto makes steering stems to put Gixxer front ends on almost any bike. They used to have a CB350 on their site with a Gixxer front end.
I'm using their stuff on my Airhead BMW project. Only grief is that the Gixxer forks are about 3" shorter than the BMW ones.
And they make a billet front hub in either 36 or 40 spoke that can take the original Gixxer brake rotors and mate to the Gixxer front forks.
They make some pretty cool stuff.

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by batman on 06/02/19 at 19:23:54

Great forks, but what's keeping the swingarm (stock ?) aligned ? I don't think the bearings on the pivot shaft will be long lived, the added weight of the large tire and the added metal disks wont help. the chain is bone tight, and the swingarm isn't even level (where the chain is stretched to it's max) , one good speed bump and your in trouble! A straight pipe exhaust doesn't do it for me either . It's just another all show, no go, custom. I guess that's why they build bikes to sell rather than keep. It's to dangerous to even test ride.

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by philthymike on 06/02/19 at 19:45:48

794A555D56380 wrote:

Good info sir! Yeah this is some very cool stuff.
https://cognitomoto.com/collections/all-products/custom

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by Dave on 06/03/19 at 03:33:32

If you look at the fork yokes for the Gixer - you will see that the fork tubes are very close to the steering stem.....there is very little offset.

The Savage on the other hand has a very significant offset, and the fork tubes are significantly forward in the yokes.

When I was building my Cafe', I used yokes from a Suzuki RM250, as the fork tubes were the same diameter and top yoke had a clamp that would allow me to drop the tubes to lower the front end without installing the RYCA spacers that limit fork travel. It seemed like a good idea at the time - however it affected the steering in a very bad way.......reducing the offset increases the trail, and makes the bike steer like a truck! It tracked fine and went around corners well - but when you got to a corner and needed to turn....the bike took a large amount of pressure on the handlebars to get the turn started. MMRanch rode my bike and when he got off he said that entering the turns - "Felt like he was trying to bend a board!".

Here is a photo that shows the stock yoke and the RM250 yoke.
http://i45.tinypic.com/9kowag.jpg

The sport bikes have much steeper fork angles and work great with the small offset - the Savage with the cruiser styling and shallower fork angle needs the larger offset to steer well - and I would expect that using the GIXXER fork yokes without changing the angle of the steering head is going to make for a very stiff steering motorcycle.

The "custom" Savage that you linked is most likely pushed around a lot to get to the shows......and they may actually never ride it (it doesn't have a license plate, turns signals, mirrors or any noticeable wear on the tires). I would love to see a Motorcycle magazine do road tests on some of these "show bikes", and comment on how well they do (or likely don't) ride.

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by ohiomoto on 06/03/19 at 07:05:16

That build was posted on this site BTW.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1494544603/15

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1496156564/10#10

http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/droog.jpg

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by ohiomoto on 06/03/19 at 07:21:29

You might be interested in this as well...Ducati Hypermotard fork...
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1495634152/0
http://i64.tinypic.com/2ynow0w.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/23tksxk.jpg
http://i68.tinypic.com/w82mtd.jpg

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by badwolf on 06/03/19 at 10:09:00

I don't want to cut down anyone elses build, to each his own, BUT I see a few things on that bike I would not like.
No rear fender? Looks cool but NOT practical if you want to really ride it.
Super small rear turn signals? Might be legal? But I perfer people see mine BEFORE they hit me.
Notice the red rag tween the tank and fork? That tells me they hit. Some new stoppers could be put on to limit travel, but then you lose your turn radis.
I have no issue with someone building a bike just for show, or nice Sunday rides. I just hope they know they will be limited. Everyone rides a little different. I take trips on my bikes and live in S. Fl. so no rear fender or cargo abilty is not a option.
I have a friend that built and judged big-time show bikes, when he showed his last bike to me it was PRETTY, but 3 years old and never been ridden.
Again, TO EACH HIS OWN!

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by ohiomoto on 06/03/19 at 10:47:42

I updated that post with pictures of the finished bike (with rag removed). Looks like the owner enjoying his creation. MORE POWER TO 'EM!

Can't wait to see what philthymike does if he decides to go with a new front end. He has a Ducati at his disposal....haha.

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by philthymike on 06/03/19 at 14:23:36

595E5F595B594259360 wrote:

Crap now I can’t unsee it. That thing is hotness. And I just learned today that every scrap of electronics in my Ducati is fried :-/

But the reason I’m inquiring about this is because I’ve been contemplating putting the Marauder front end on Thumpy but there’s a nagging voice in my head that keeps saying it’s alot of work for non-adjustable forks I may or may not like.
Same deal with my Ducati’s forks. My Hyperstrada differs from the Hypermotard in having forks with no adjustments. I’d been thinking about putting HM forks on my HS but now I might just be parting it out.

In any case I think I should put adjustable forks on Thumpy if I’m gonna do All the work.

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by verslagen1 on 06/03/19 at 15:04:53

Marauder forks are springless, are double clamping and have cartridge type damping.

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by philthymike on 06/03/19 at 17:29:11

A bit off topic but wanted to post it here just in case.
Custom fork tubes. Lists the LS650 too!
http://franksforks.com/products/suzuki-fork-tubes/

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by philthymike on 06/03/19 at 20:22:49

213225243B3630323966570 wrote:

Marauder forks are springless, are double clamping and have cartridge type damping.

The specs say coil spring forks.

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by verslagen1 on 06/03/19 at 20:47:31

273F3E3B233F2E3A3E3C32570 wrote:

[quote author=213225243B3630323966570 link=1559517672/0#10 date=1559599493]Marauder forks are springless, are double clamping and have cartridge type damping.

The specs say coil spring forks. [/quote]
depends on year. I bought 02, might be 97-04
also those years have a triple tree with similar offset and stops like the savage.

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by Armen on 06/04/19 at 02:53:23

Cognito Moto will make custom triple clamps to whatever specs you want. No, they aren't free :-0

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by philthymike on 06/04/19 at 10:34:03

Just wanted to share some good news! Turns out that the electronics failures on my Duck are covered by a recall and Ducati is paying for the $4k worth of parts that bike needs.
So much for cannibalizing its front end >:(

Leaves me with more money to mod Thumpy now 8-)

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by batman on 06/04/19 at 13:11:57

$4K worth of parts? that's scary ! my Savage only cost $ 4,400 new. Kind of makes me remember why I only buy Japanese bikes, and my Savage is the best of all . If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's an electrical problem ;D

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by Dave on 06/04/19 at 14:32:25

2E3637322A36273337353B5E0 wrote:

Turns out that the electronics failures on my Duck are covered by a recall and Ducati is paying for the $4k worth of parts that bike needs.

That is the one thing that really scares me about all this modern computer stuff in cars/trucks/motorcycles. Way back in the 70's they started adding computer ignition systems in cars....and I can remember when the computer went out people would have to pay $1,000 for a new computer. And similarly they had some weird carbs with electric controls run by some kind of processor - another costly item. As the 80's came along they seemed to get the engine computers and fuel injection systems to be very reliable, and we really didn't have a choice as cars/trucks all have electronic ignition and fuel injection....only in bikes could we still get carbs.

We are now in an era where the entire dashboard in cars/trucks is computer based - the climate control system, gear shifting, engine starting, windows, lights, air bags, engine monitoring.....and even the status of your light bulbs (Canbus) are monitored! Most of the modern motorcycles are following the trend - the fuel injection, ignition, speedometer and entire dashboard are all computer controlled. Just like happened in the 70's when the computers first showed up - we are at the mercy of the manufacturer and likely cannot repair what becomes broken when the "white smoke" comes out of the wiring. Maybe they have these things pretty bulletproof and the "Disco Lights of Death" are not going to be a common theme - but it is a bit intimidating to know a voltage spike can turn a low mileage motorcycle into a parts bike in a millisecond.

(I am going to go out and do some chatting with the electronic bits on my motorcycles - give them a nice pep talk). ;)

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by philthymike on 06/04/19 at 18:12:14

Yeah there’s something to be said about dinosaurs. One reason I drove a 1967 Econoline between 91 and 06 was because I could fix just about anything that went wrong with it. It was such a simple machine it wasn’t much more than a horse wagon with an engine.

I imagine that if we got hit with a strategic EMP attack the old LS650 would be among the few modern bikes that we could make run again. Retrofit some points and a couple old selenium rectifiers and you’d be one of them post apocalyptic bikers from Mad Max stealing gas anywhere you could find it.

On the bright side having the Duck back on the road means my plans for Thumpy can carry on. I couldn’t have both bikes off the road.

Anyway as for gixxer forks it’s looking really pricey and short on information in regards to swapping.
The VZ800 fork swap is known and documented enough to be a fork swapping for dummies (like me) book.
So I’m gonna go with them. I’ll be ordering a set this week.

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by batman on 06/04/19 at 19:11:41

I'd be buying the whole bike, not just the forks, and sending the Duck down the road. the factory won't fix it forever.

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by Dave on 06/06/19 at 04:27:04

Since this topic has been dragged off a bit.....I might as well post what I found out last night about Ducati from my local Old Biker Trash dinner last night. These guys have owned and still own a stable full of Euro bikes, and when we arrive there are always Triumph, Norton, Ducati, BMW, Guzzi and Ural bikes....and some other really unique bikes that include what may be the only Yamaha MT01 in the United States (brought into the US by a Canadian in the military who brought it with him when he moved to the US).

The fellow that currently has a late model Ducati Multi-Strada has been experiencing fuel sender issues ever since the bike was new. Evidently the sender uses a plastic float that slides up/down on a rod with sensors that identify the height of the float. The float is made out of nylon, and the ethanol fuel causes it to swell and get stuck on the sensor rod....and ultimately it starts sending out error codes and lights up the dash. The dealer has replaced 3 of them, and now it has happened again and Ducati won't replace it this time. Evidently there is a new sender that is made in Japan that will resolve the problem - but the dealer stock is still the old model that creates the problem. He loves the bike - but not the dealer or Ducati, and although he currently owns 2 Ducati's he said he was not likely to buy another one.

The other fellow has a Ducati Scrambler....and it has been trouble free and a joy to ride - it is his choice when he needs to ride in downtown areas as it is pretty light and nimble. He has no negative experiences with Ducati.

If you already own one.....I am not sure if you will have a lot of luck trading in or selling it at anywhere close to what you paid for it - it might be a bike you just need to keep and own and ride until it can't be economically maintained anymore (or you just begin to hate it).

Title: Re: GSX-R 750 front end?
Post by philthymike on 06/06/19 at 15:47:45

In all fairness this electronics problem has been the only breakdown the bikes had ruling out flat tires. Since I didn’t get any maintenance history from the previous owner I decided better safe than sorry and had a couple big ticket maintenance items done just for my peace of mind.
What my research has found regarding the current issues is that Ducati had a QC problem with their ignition coils which they buy from a manufacturer in Spain. The coils had a tendency to short out. When they did it caused a huge voltage spike that fries all of the sensitive electronics. So a $44 part causes a cascade failure that brings down thousands of dollars worth of parts elsewhere.
They issued a recall to add a protection device that would suppress the spike should it occur.
Unfortunately I never got the notice. Last year I scheduled for an appointment at the shop to have them check that the bike has had all of its recall work done. The day of the appointment was all thunderstorms so I cancelled and went back on the waiting list. Before another appointment came up the shop went out of business. Soon after the bike blew up.
Luck of the draw I suppose.

But to ride that Ducati is a thing of wonder. The people who designed the bike were absolute geniuses. I can’t really put words to the experience of it. It’s like Slim Pickens riding a nuclear bomb and waving his cowboy hat while doing it. It’s engineered with a singular focus and that focus is performance. And Ducati knows it well. And unlike many other brands of bikes, their bikes have lots of personality. Tons of it. This last is what attracted me to the thing.