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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Bike died on the way to work this morning /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1561775094 Message started by springman on 06/28/19 at 19:24:54 |
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Title: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 06/28/19 at 19:24:54 Bike died this morning just as I was turning into the HOV entrance ramp. I realized immediately that power was gone but it took me a few seconds, as I was searching for neutral, to realize that all electric power was gone. I am assuming the battery died, as that is basically what happened when the previous battery died. It is really annoying that there is no warning, the battery appears to be working just fine, and suddenly it is dead. :( |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by batman on 06/28/19 at 19:40:44 Charge the battery, let sit overnight, and check the voltage ,if it exceeds about 12.5 or more ,its time to test the stator, or regulator/rectifier . You have to remember that once the voltage of your battery drops below about 10 volts ,the bike 's ignition fails and will not produce a spark, and that your headlight uses nearly half the power produced by the generating system. I just replaced my reg/rectifier ( two days ago) for the same reason . They suffer a lot of abuse from the power they have to shed in the form of heat when the battery is fully charged and temperatures are high, because the stator puts out a constant amount of power (depending on rpm) all the time . Mine lasted 24 years but I'm in N.Y. not the heat of Texas. Your statement that all power was gone (my bike acted the same way) leads me to think the generating system failed and the bike ran until the battery voltage was pulled down to around 10 volts and nothing worked not even the lights. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 06/28/19 at 20:06:32 Thanks Batman. I'll give it a shot. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by batman on 06/28/19 at 20:17:49 If you charge the battery and unplug the three wire plug going to the reg/rec (the vellow? wires) and the bike starts and runs, you'll know to check the gen. system. Most people don't realize that running a lot of LED"s compounds the heat load that has to be shed, smaller batteries may also have some effect. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by Dave on 06/29/19 at 04:19:21 I think it is a bit odd the battery died while the bike is running......every battery that has died on me was when I went to start the bike. The charging system normally keeps things going once the engine is running, and the problem shows up when you shut the bike off (or stall it) and you can't get it started again. I suppose it is possible that your battery shorted out and killed everything - but that is a unique way for the battery to croak. Once you charge and check your battery, I would be tempted to install a voltmeter so you can monitor your system voltage while you ride. If you see the voltage drop as you ride......you will need to look at the charging system on the bike and see why the bike isn't charging properly. This would not have to be a permanent installation and you can get digital voltmeters for less than $10 on eBay - you could temporarily hook it into the running light connector in the headlight bucket and you would not need to run wires back to the ignition switch....this would provide an accurate enough reading for you to monitor the ups and downs of the voltage as you ride. I used this one on my little Ninja, it worked great and you can mount it with the little metal bracket they make for cigarette lighter power sockets. The blue is too bright for night riding.....red is a better color for the bike dash. https://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-Digital-Display-Voltmeter-Car-Motorcycle-Voltage-Volt-Gauge-Panel-Meter-12V/382624102408?hash=item59162c7808:m:mjOteNyJ32wi3AcLHzv4Mzw |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by raydawg on 06/29/19 at 07:39:28 A loose wire? ::) |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by philthymike on 06/29/19 at 07:57:59 Did you check the fuses? |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 06/29/19 at 11:58:32 Thanks all. I did not get a chance to look at it last night and right now it is raining cats and dogs. I will be looking at all the suggestions mentioned and may even get the voltage meter Dave recommended. Thanks. I'll post what I find. Of course the tank is full as I had just stopped to fill up prior to the bike dying. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/29/19 at 13:12:21 362E2F2A322E3F2B2F2D23460 wrote:
That's where to start. And before you charge a battery Make sure it needs it. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 06/29/19 at 19:21:03 OK. The rain cooled things off a bit so I removed the battery and some accessory lights I had. I put the battery on my charger and it indicated charged. One of my multi meters has a load tester so I tested the battery and it tested fine. At this point I have only removed the seat and not the tank. All the wires look fine and nothing smells burned. I do not see any fuses so I have to figure out where they are (probably under the tank). |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/29/19 at 21:44:14 Eyeballeable ,, Under the right side of the seat. You can touch them, you might get one out,, I did, but couldn't stuff it back in. Pop the seat, it's just easier. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 06/30/19 at 13:06:43 Back from church and after church lunch. Food has digested and it is relatively cool so I went to look for the fuses. Yep easy to find once you have an idea of where to look. One of the 20 amp fuses is blown. So, heading to O'reilly to buy some fuses. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 06/30/19 at 13:39:42 OK. Now to find where the short is. I installed the fuse and as soon as I turned the key to the on position the fuse blew out. I guess I will have to take the tank off after all. >:( |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by raydawg on 06/30/19 at 14:29:50 Pull the switch apart - and I remember I had a issue with the starter button before, I forget exactly, but I pulled it apart ( the handle assembly) cleaned it all up, and put it back together, it worked.... You don't hang a lot of keys on your ring do you, that can damage a switch too. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/30/19 at 15:02:21 I'd pull the tank and seats, disconnect every connector, and certainly the ignition module, turn the key on and check the fuse, plug in a connector, check the fuse, and keep going until it popped. Start connecting working away from the ignition switch. The problem is in the part of the circuit you just connected. Look at the wires that run close to the steering stop. Have you worked on anything before this started? Remove a turn signal? |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 06/30/19 at 16:03:14 Thanks guys. The tank is off. I just replaced spark plug while I was there. I will inspect the wire one more time and if I do not find a bad wire I will disconnect and reconnect one by one. I keep my bike key separate so it is basically just the key that goes into the switch. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 06/30/19 at 17:01:31 Help. I used JOG's method and found that the red wire shown on the picture currently disconnected is the one that blows the fuse. Preliminary examination does not show the issue. Recommendations gladly accepted. It will be getting dark soon so I will probably call it quits for today shortly. Thanks for the help guys. Thanks JOG. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 06/30/19 at 17:26:00 Well, I give up for tonight. I think the snow cone place closes at 8 which means I better get my butt in gear for my Bahama Mama. :) |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by pg on 06/30/19 at 18:23:30 This is just general info; however, if it were me I would get out my Clymer manual and start review the circuit patterns. I would also look for rub sports on wires, rust / corrosion on connectors, so on. I would give attention to the kill switch circuit and the wires going to the ignition coil. I can't remember off the top of my head, other than the side stand are their any other safety features on an S40? Good luck. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by verslagen1 on 06/30/19 at 19:35:08 I think that big red wire is the main battery coming off the starter relay. Yep, pull that and short problems are over. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 06/30/19 at 19:47:14 Thanks pg. I do not have the Clymer manual. I looked for cuts of frays in the wire but did not see anything. I think once I get back to it I will work from the battery up. If the problem is not between the battery and the starter solenoid it looks like I will have to cut the tape holding the wires together so I can follow that wire. Not looking forward to that. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by Dave on 07/01/19 at 03:26:02 Here is the wiring diagram. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1294779818 I believe the red wire with the connector carries the power forward on the bike....the red wire to the relay does not have a connector (just terminal ends). I would disconnect the wiring connectors under the tank, then plug the red wire back in and see if the fuse blows. If not....start plugging them back in and until you find the one that blows the fuse. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by pg on 07/01/19 at 04:00:38 Springman, I wouldn't open up any of the wrapped wires just yet. My suggestion is a means to start trouble shooting anything that doesn't look appropriate. A little corrosion in a connector can cause some significant problems, a pinched wire a can do some funny things as well. I'm afraid it is not an easy task to find the problem. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/01/19 at 04:13:36 Don't do anything radical yet. Work forward with disconnecting and as someone else said, plug the red wire back together, Did you check out the wires near the steering stop Have you done ANY work on the bike recently, before this started? |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 07/01/19 at 09:51:25 Yep, that wire is coming from the starter relay. I see the error of my ways. I will disconnect all connectors again, and connect the red wire connector first (this was my mistake, that was not the first one I connected) and keep connecting things until fuse blows. I guess I better pick up some more fuses as I only have 2 left out of the pack of 5. Dave, I did find the diagrams last night and pored over them for a while. I am not sure I understand just how to read the diagram (actually I am concerned that I do understand it and if so I could have a real mess on my hands). I won't do anything radical yet. I will probably look for a primer on youtube on how to read electrical diagrams. Thanks all! |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by verslagen1 on 07/01/19 at 10:00:40 There's a cheaper way to do this. Take a 12v light and hook it up to where the fuse goes. When the light is lit, you have current rather than a burnt fuse. Harbor freight also has a meter that plugs in the fuse receptacle. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 07/01/19 at 11:24:23 Versy, the light will tell me there is current, but it won't tell me if it exceeds 20 amps. Or am I not understanding? |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 07/01/19 at 11:39:34 quick question. On the diagram, when 2 wires are connected by a black dot, does that mean those 2 wires are connected at that point? Actually if I look at diagram more closely it says just that, so nevermind. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by verslagen1 on 07/01/19 at 12:03:57 393A3823242D272B244A0 wrote:
It would if it burned brightly. I haven't read thru, but several places where wires get abused. the headlight were the wires run thru the hole. the pigtail that connects the tank. wires along the frame under the tank. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 07/01/19 at 12:14:28 Thanks Versy. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by MMRanch on 07/01/19 at 19:18:59 Springman , That thing Dave said , about unplugging everything and see when Verseys light "lights-up" as you replug things. O - yea ... check for green fuzzy stuff in the connectors while your there. So , is it the red feeder to the switch or is it the one going to the starter relay ? :) Does it only plow fuses with the switch in the "ON" position ? As much moisture as ya'll get I can envision green fussy stuff growing inside the main switch ??? :-? wait a minute ... the big one going to the relay don't have a fuse , but it does have a disconnect don't it. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 07/01/19 at 20:27:29 Hello MM. When I connect the connector of the 2 red wires, one coming from the starter solenoid, and the other red wire going into the harness, and I switch the key to the on position, that is when the fuse blows. I intend to disconnect all connectors again and start by just connecting the the connector of the 2 red wires and see what happens then. I suspect though I probably won't be able to get to it until Thursday or Friday. I know exactly what you are talking about when you say "green fuzzy stuff" and I have not seen any of it yet. It is a shame the bike is down. These last couple of days have been great riding days. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by MMRanch on 07/01/19 at 20:51:33 I wish I was there to help ya "Trouble-shoot" it . Lancer had a lot of electrical problems with REX but it was running GREAT last spring so don't give up ! I'll bet its something really simple when ya find it ... Mine had a smashed wire between the seat and frame once :-[ |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/01/19 at 20:55:50 First rule of fixing stuff Visual inspection |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by batman on 07/01/19 at 21:14:43 If you have VOLT/OHM METER , you could use the ohms setting to check the wiring ,without the power on, and a test light or fuses would not be needed . |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by verslagen1 on 07/01/19 at 21:43:33 I had a definite 2 volt drop from the battery to the TCI. I cleaned all the contacts with deoxit and it's good as new. https://www.amazon.com/DeoxIT%C2%AE-Gold-Electronic-Maintenance-Caig/dp/B00E1QZ01S/ref=sr_1_17?gclid=Cj0KCQjw3uboBRDCARIsAO2XcYD-i5Toj9L6CwzCGgvdXxjLcvsxnTMjeJFsc9lV-YNsyn5phZeGfpsaAhC7EALw_wcB&hvadid=241646607487&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9052191&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5105008372203975101&hvtargid=kwd-286456768&hydadcr=26611_9892148&keywords=deoxit&qid=1562042411&s=gateway&sr=8-17 |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by MMRanch on 07/01/19 at 22:27:51 That's that $ stuff . but if it works and last a long time ... .............................. I wonder if you disconnect the switch the fuse might stop blowing ... if it don't then good its pin-pointed. but reconnecting the switch one wire at a time would put ya on the right you know the first thing to look at is any accessory's you have added on . ********** I've got it ! Springman , pull them running light blubs out and look into the socket or better yet ... get inside the head light and un-plug the both of them and the headlight for good measure. I have seen the light-bulb-plug-ins loose a wire and that would go strait to ground and blow fuses just like your experiencing . same thing on the tail light wires. Let me know if that is it and I'll keep on thinking what else it could be . You eliminate the lights out then there ain't nothing left but the coil , and switches. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 07/02/19 at 08:15:38 Thanks guys. If I get home early enough I will try to tinker with it some more. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/02/19 at 14:50:25 I could understand it a lot easier if it did that on a Monday. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 07/02/19 at 17:29:31 Only one connector left to connect and the fuse is still intact. And you probably guessed it, the connector at the very front that takes power to the lights and electronics on handle bar is the one that is yet to be connected. I will take a look at the light connections first and hopefully find the issue there. If not, then I will proceed to the electronics on the handle bar. Hopefully I will have it resolved soon. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by Dave on 07/03/19 at 08:16:37 One of the "fuse popper" things that can happen, is if the previous owner replaced the screws that hold the turn signal shafts together and used screws that are too long. The longer screw can dig into the wiring that is inside the shaft and create a ground. If you have to open up the headlight....the first thing I would do is unhook the running light and turn signal wires. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 07/03/19 at 12:45:09 Thanks Dave, I will look. This examination of the bike revealed a few things I had never noticed. For one, I actually have a pigtail for a battery tender, it was just sort of hidden. Second, there is actually some sort of rubber cover for the starter solenoid, it just was not on the solenoid but rather between it and part of the frame. Ahhh, the things you find when you bother to look. :o |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 07/03/19 at 19:25:54 And the culprit is .... right front blinker. Have not had a chance to take it off the bike to look at it but hopefully will do so tomorrow. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/03/19 at 23:53:25 Check the wires where they pass by the screw that holds the stalk onto the black part. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/03/19 at 23:55:14 Definitely not#2 Phillips screws. JIS tips required. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 07/04/19 at 10:11:13 Will do. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 07/04/19 at 17:14:52 Issue resolved. There were was only one wire that looked bad, it was inside of the turn signal fixture. I peeled to see if it was broken but it was not. I taped it up and taped just about every other wire that goes inside the head light and problem appears to be resolved. I will carry fuses with me just in case and if it happens again somewhere I may just disconnect that turn signal in order to make it home. I wanted to take care of some other things while I've got the tank off but I may wait a week or so as I gashed a couple of my fingers last night while preparing a brisket. The fingers are a little sore and the one that took the brunt of the knife hit starts bleeding if I use any strength in the finger. We'll see how the fingers feel tomorrow. Brisket was good!!! |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by raydawg on 07/05/19 at 11:42:28 From short, to sharp..... :-? ;D |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 07/05/19 at 13:50:58 I guess I haven't finished. I just adjusted the valves. 2 were good and 2 were too tight. I was about to put the tank back on when I remembered I also need to install the raptor petcock. So, time to take a break cause it is too hot. Will try to install the petcock later in the evening. |
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Title: Re: Bike died on the way to work this morning Post by springman on 07/05/19 at 19:32:32 Petcock and new fuel hose installed. Also new breather hose? Hose that goes from the cylinder head to the air box. And new oil and filter. Took a quick, short ride and smells different. I guess it is the hoses. Anyway, as Raydawg said, "It's a wrap"! |
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