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Message started by Keifer on 10/28/19 at 13:44:45

Title: Carb cleaning
Post by Keifer on 10/28/19 at 13:44:45

Hi, I have been using this site as well as Clymers. I'm disassembling the carb to give it a cleaning.

I have found the Main jet is a 155, and the pilot jet says 47.5 on the side. This is a 93 Canadian bike, from the specs listed on this site that probably is stock. The pilot air jet says 230 for whatever that's worth. I'm at sea level, cold weather riding, should I leave the settings alone? FWIW I have to get a new pilot jet anyway since I damaged it getting it out..

I cannot get the main needle jet out(?)...I removed the main jet, and the washer, but I'm afraid of damaging the needle jet. It should remove inside towards the carb throat right? Not towards the bowl? Does it screw out or just push out?

Also someone else stripped the screws holding the plate in the way of removing the choke pull. The choke seems clean and works, will I be sorry if I don't try and get it out after all to clean it?

Thanks for any advice..

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by stewmills on 10/28/19 at 13:52:34

The jet should screw out towards the bowl side. Nothing I am aware of comes out in the main carb throat.

On the choke...if it ain't broke don't fix it. Noting in there worth fooling with at the risk of breaking things worse. Cleaning the jets and slide are the most important here. DO NOT use carb cleaner on the float needle or rubber diaphragm. Carb cleaner is bad for plastics and rubber. WD40 or other similar sprays are best for plastic stuff. Just make certain to wipe off any "residue" from the slide and carb body so the oil is not collecting dirt causing the slide to stick. These need to be nice and smooth and cleaned with a clean lint free cloth before final install.

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by verslagen1 on 10/28/19 at 14:00:35

111607150F0B0E0E11620 wrote:

The jet should screw out towards the bowl side. Nothing I am aware of comes out in the main carb throat.

Nope, the needle jet pushes up away from the bowl.

The main jet unscrews towards the bowl.

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by Keifer on 10/28/19 at 14:00:41

Thanks for the input!

I was able to remove the main jet (it screws out as you mention) but the needle jet inside seems to be stuck. ..

And roger with the no carb cleaner on the rubber/plastic... I didn't notice the float needle was plastic but it does have a black tapered end. I will use dish soap on the diaphragms (read that elsewhere here)

What should I use to lube the slide? WD40 will clean, but should anything be put on the slide after so it doesn't stick?

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by verslagen1 on 10/28/19 at 14:04:28

406E626D6E793D3E3B0B0 wrote:

What should I use to lube the slide? WD40 will clean, but should anything be put on the slide after so it doesn't stick?

Generally nothing as the black coating is dry lube, although I use injector cleaner in the gas and last time I took it out it was wet with it.
So when I put it back in, I just applied a couple of drops and wiped it around.

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by ohiomoto on 10/28/19 at 16:43:27

446A66696A7D393A3F0F0 wrote:

I'm at sea level, cold weather riding, should I leave the settings alone?

-----------------------

If you are happy with the bike the way it runs now, then you should leave it alone.

Why are you cleaning the carb? Were you having any issues?

IMO, if the bike runs well, the carb shouldn't be "cleaned". Most people do more harm than good when "cleaning" the carb. Same goes for "jetting" the carb because the internet says to jet the carb.

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by Keifer on 11/17/19 at 11:29:50

I bought it as a project, it had been sitting outside for some time. It would run, but not idle. Had to constantly feather the throttle, and it backfires. So I've never had it 'running' enough to see if it needs jetting. I will just replace the jets with the same sizes... once its cleaned (hopefully I don't screw it up) and see from there. I finally got the parts in the mail...

In the below photo... what is this hole's function? It is completely plugged.

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by Keifer on 11/18/19 at 08:54:53

Hole 2

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by Keifer on 11/18/19 at 08:55:35

Hole 3. Just need to know if these should be free and clear...

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/18/19 at 09:58:23

That orifice in the carb throat is part of the idle circuit. That would explain why the bike doesn't idle. Gummout carb cleaner is your friend here. Try to soak the clogged passages for a few hours and then use compressed air to blow them out. When you think you have it right, put the red wand on the can of cleaner and squirt some cleaner into the orifice to ensure that the fluid comes out somewhere else. Avoid sticking stuff into the holes as you can create bigger problems than you started with.

You should assemble the carb dry. A few of my bikes have advanced carbs (Keihin MX Flat-side) that have o-rings and diaphragms that I dab with grease to keep things in place while I reassemble, but the S40 carb is a simple device. If it makes you happy, you can lightly coat the float bowl gasket and the needle-valve o-ring with a little oil to ensure they don't slip as you reassemble.

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by DragBikeMike on 11/19/19 at 01:09:37

I believe that hole in the throat of the carburetor (hole #1) is your main air bleed jet. I'm sorry to disagree with you Gary, but I don't think it's part of the idle circuit.

The Main Air Bleed affects your mixture at higher throttle positions. It works in conjunction with the Main Jet. A larger air bleed will delay the onset of the main circuit and also lean out the mixture by admitting more air to the emulsion tube (needle jet). Larger air bleed, leaner mixture; smaller air bleed, richer mixture; plugged air bleed, super-rich mixture.

If it is completely obstructed, you must clean it out. It is a fixed jet (i.e. pressed into the carburetor body) so you can't remove it. Gary is right to caution you about poking stuff in that jet. But alas, sometimes there's just no other way. If you can't clear the obstruction with carb cleaner, you may have to resort to mechanical cleaning.

The main air bleed is .024" (.6mm). That is equivalent to a #73 drill bit. I know, I know, drill bits can be real bad news for a jet. But if its plugged with hard crud, you may have no other choice but to resort to some sort of hard implement. If you have to clear it mechanically, I suggest you use the back end of a #74 or a #73 drill bit. Not the pointed side, the blunt side. As long as you don't use anything larger than a #73, you shouldn't enlarge the jet. You just have to be careful. You don't wanna remove metal, you just wanna remove crud. BTW, I have found that PineSol softens up old fuel crud quite nicely. I know that sounds crazy but it actually works. Note that micro-drills are wire gage, so a #73 (.0240") is larger in diameter than a #74 (.0225").

Keep in mind that when you push the crud out of that air bleed, it's gonna go into the air passage behind the jet. That passage leads to the cavity that surrounds the needle jet (AKA emulsion tube). You should remove the needle jet before you clear the air bleed. That way, when you break the crud loose it has a path for exit from the carb body. Flush it good with carb cleaner, spraying through the air bleed from the inlet side of the carb towards the throttle plate.

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by DragBikeMike on 11/19/19 at 01:26:32

Hole #2 (there are actually three) provides the fuel & air emulsion to your enrichment circuit. The fuel enrichment jet is a fixed jet pressed into your float bowl. The brass tube with three small holes that you show in your picture is situated in a cavity in the float bowl. At the bottom of that cavity, there is a brass jet. That brass jet is your enrichment fuel supply. It's a very small jet and very susceptible to plugging up with crud because it is located at the bottom of the float bowl.

If the hole you are showing in your picture is plugged, then the other two holes in the brass tube are also probably plugged, and the enrichment fuel jet (in the float bowl) is also probably plugged. If you want your enricher to function, you have to clean all those holes out. The holes in the brass tube are straight forward and should be pretty easy to clean out. That jet in the bottom of the float bowl is another story. You can check to see if its plugged by inserting the plastic tube on the carb cleaner down into the hole in the float bowl and spraying through the jet. You should observe cleaner exiting out the adjoining hole in the bottom of the bowl. This picture shows the holes in question.

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by DragBikeMike on 11/19/19 at 01:35:37

Hole #3 is a mystery hole. It is factory-plugged with a brass rod. It appears to me to be a feature of the manufacturing process. You will see plugs in various other areas on the carburetor. They drill passages that intersect at different angles, then plug an opening where the drill entered or exited. It looks to me like they drilled a passage and then plugged it with a brass rod. You have probably noticed the brass rod running up & down through the venturi of your carburetor. Its actually a plug.

Look familiar?

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by DragBikeMike on 11/19/19 at 01:40:40

Good luck Keifer. I hope I've been of some assistance. Don't rule out the PineSol. It really does work. You have to let it soak for a day or two, but it softens up the petrified fuel deposits pretty good, and then when you give it a good squirt of Gumout the crud is more like soft tar than concrete, so the Gumout has a fighting chance of blasting the goo away. 8-)

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by ohiomoto on 11/19/19 at 06:26:46

517F737C7F682C2F2A1A0 wrote:

-----------------------

If the bike is stock, then I would make sure the jets currently installed are still stock or close to stock. The reason being is that you know the bike should run reasonably well with stock jetting. This lets you focus on the things that might be causing it to run poorly (like your clogged passages).

I mention this because you never know what someone else did to the bike before you got it and you have no idea how well it ran when they parked it. Stock jetting is a nice place to start unless the bike has a lot of performance mods.

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by Keifer on 11/20/19 at 12:38:12

Really good info thanks a ton! Lots of knowledge there. I will try the chemical method before I start poking holes as a last resort. I bought oem pilots from suzuki so there's no aftermarket quality issues.

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by Keifer on 04/02/20 at 13:39:42

Okay, super happy that my carb cleaning efforts over the winter went great! I just put it back on after the weather warmed up, a little fresh gas, and it's running great! At least as far as idling, and with the choke in/out, and various speeds while stationary. Have yet to get it on the road. Oil/filter was changed as well now that it runs properly.

Next up, another question for the experts--

The front forks seem way too soft, I suspect water has entered and contaminated the fluid, or the level is now off, or the insides are toast (one of the dust cover seals has rust) but the stanchions are very clean.

Anyway, to remove the front fork tubes, Clymers says the handlebars must come off, is that true? It seems like I can just jack up the front, remove wheel/caliper/fender, and the tubes should just slide down after loosening the appropriate bolts. Is there anything else to it? I was planning on just emptying and filling the tubes with the correct amount of fluid. If they need to be rebuilt, well that may be beyond me but first steps first.

Thanks for the help again!

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by LANCER on 04/02/20 at 14:10:22

During the 2nd year I had my Savage I decided I needed to check my fork fluid as part of regular maintenance. What I found was wet tubes but virtually no measurable fluid. I got the bike new so the factory shipped them empty and the dealer did not check them during assembly.
Surprised the heck out of me, but it pays to check things.

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by Keifer on 04/02/20 at 14:20:14

I double checked the tech section. It appears I can remove the tubes without removing handlebars. The bike sat outside, so rust is literally eating the dust cover, likely the circlip(?) underneath. Will I need to disassemble to replace the dust seals?

One other thing. I have been reading about the special tool required to disassemble and loosen the allen on the bottom. I don’t understand the trick in the clymers--that bolt can be loosened before the top cap is removed? It only needs to be loosened if rebuilding correct? Not just adding oil?

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by verslagen1 on 04/02/20 at 14:34:57

yes, remove the wheel, fender, caliper, caps and loosen the clamp and drop the tube.

to drain the fluid invert it and pump it a couple times.

I forgot whether the bottom bolt has to come out to pull the tube out.

the dust shields are just pressed in, the lower seal will require the clip to be removed and pull the tube out to get the seal out. the seal is in there pretty tight. it'll take several blows to come out.

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/02/20 at 16:44:47

Pro tip: crack the top cap a 1/2 turn before you loosen the lower triple clamp pinch bolt.

Title: Re: Carb cleaning
Post by LANCER on 04/03/20 at 12:49:48

When I bought a RYCA kit years ago it came with a piece of pipe with 2 notches cut in one end, to be used for removing the damper rod. Most everything else comes out except the damper rod and the big Allen head bolt on the bottom of the fork. The tool holds the inside in place so the Allen head bolt can be removed.