|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Has Trump broken a law with the alleged bribery? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1574994230 Message started by DesertCat on 11/28/19 at 18:23:50 |
|
Title: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged bribery? Post by DesertCat on 11/28/19 at 18:23:50 Has Trump broken an actual law, federal or international, with his alleged bribery of the Ukraine government? If so, what is this law and where can I read about it? If Trump did try to bribe a foreign government then I agree that that is pretty scummy and unethical but not necessarily illegal. BTW, I'm not picking a side here. Just asking a question about possible illegality. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by Eegore on 11/28/19 at 19:47:51 "Has Trump broken an actual law, federal or international, with his alleged bribery of the Ukraine government? If so, what is this law and where can I read about it?" Yes and No, depending on how people interpret the "law", in this case it would be Campaign Finance Law that was broken. It can be referenced here: https://www.fec.gov/regulations/110-20/2019-annual-110#110-20 It wasn't technically "bribery" by definition to begin with, its more like "solicitation" which is addressed in the above referenced law. The most important thing is that impeachment isn't the enforcement of criminal law. Law is used as reference, but the process is not one that reflects the US Judicial System. This means to be impeached the US President doesn't actually have to break any written law. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by DesertCat on 11/29/19 at 04:32:46 5474767E6374110 wrote:
========================================= Yes, I keep forgetting this. Thanks. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by WebsterMark on 11/29/19 at 05:51:16 Bribery was substituted for the phrase quid pro quo because it polled better. The President is the one person who actually is above the law in certain aspects so impeachment is the political solution to that necessary quandary. It makes perfect sense when implemented properly. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by raydawg on 11/29/19 at 08:59:10 Yeah, Eegore and Mark are correct, the president has responsibilities and powers, that put in in a position, in a sense, be above the law.... Much in the same simplistic explanation the Head Chef, has final say, what leaves the kitchen, perhaps having to "override" the recipe, because of obstacles that arrived in the preparations of the meal..... ( yeah...pretty simple comparison... ;D ) It was not meant to be a legislating (political) tool for the opposition, much has been written as to why. It has been, of late, and has stained it's intended usage ;) |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by Mavigogun on 11/29/19 at 20:31:14 That's a lie. Trump solicited Russia to commit a crime in service to his campaign on live TV. His operatives shared data on key battleground states with Russian operatives. He obstructed investigation into that circumstance. He prevented an act of Congress persuant to our national interest and security from being enacted for his personal advantage, soliciting the interference of both Ukrain and China in our democratic process. This is explicitly what impeachment was created for. If you wanna see political corruption, Ray, look in the mirror. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by raydawg on 11/29/19 at 21:04:11 Oh that's right.....you can't do it on TV, tongue in cheek, you must do it in person, hopefully with the mike turned.....off ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by Mavigogun on 11/29/19 at 21:23:09 Either method is a crime, and certainly no joke. Russia understood that- even if you act like you don't, Ray. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by eau de sauvage on 11/30/19 at 04:55:00 4F6E786E797F486A7F0B0 wrote:
TL ; DR ironically simply by refusing to allow Mulvaney and Bolton and now Nunes to testify which Trump is doing in order to conceal even more crimes, is obstruction of justice and is in itself yet another crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice If you're serious about understanding how Trump damaged the national security interests of the USA, then check this out https://www.lawfareblog.com/we-wrote-starr-report-account-record-laffaire-ukrainienne Two things i will say though is that there's more than one thing going on in this impeachment and while impeachment does not require a crime, there have been multiple crimes anyway. BTW 'high crimes and misdemeanours' as written in the Constitution refers to precisely the abuse of office for personal enrichment. Someone like Trump was exactly why the original framers put impeachment into the constitution, they'd just fcuked off the Monarchy, they didn't want a President who thought he could become a King. ================================= Vladimir Putin is calling the White House, begins one joke that’s been making the rounds. “Hello, Donald? I would like to discuss Ukraine with you.” Trump: “What’s Ukraine?” Putin: “Thanks, Donald!” https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/russian-jokes-tell-deeper-truths-about-putin-and-trump/602713/ |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by WebsterMark on 11/30/19 at 05:48:51 while impeachment does not require a crime, Just thought I'd point out the only accurate statement in that entire post. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by Eegore on 11/30/19 at 06:09:58 What part of the Obstruction of Justice reference is incorrect? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by WebsterMark on 11/30/19 at 06:26:16 Oh please Eegore, you know what I meant. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by Mavigogun on 11/30/19 at 06:43:13 665453424554437C50435A310 wrote:
Ya, we all got that clearly, declaring your excuse for discounting without consideration. Deny. Equivocate. Lie. You long ago sacrificed the requisite integrity for having your "judgment" regarded seriously. It's apiece with Trump questioning anyone's veracity- laughable, were the consequences not so dire. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by raydawg on 11/30/19 at 08:17:47 373B2C333D353D2F345A0 wrote:
Oh....glad you now agree what Obama did/said, when he thought no one was listening....was wrong too, cool. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by Mavigogun on 11/30/19 at 08:28:59 2A39213C392F3F580 wrote:
Refusing-to-get-the-point and deflection is part and parcel of the debasement you now perform daily on behalf of this President. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by DesertCat on 11/30/19 at 10:00:39 I regret starting this thread. All I wanted to know was the laws (if any) Trump had violated. It was non-political. Oh well, I learned my lesson. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by raydawg on 11/30/19 at 10:44:10 5F7E687E696F587A6F1B0 wrote:
well no one brought up global warming.....yet ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by raydawg on 11/30/19 at 10:46:47 2C203728262E26342F410 wrote:
Refusing-to-get-the-point and deflection is part and parcel of the debasement you now perform daily on behalf of this President. [/quote] Wrong again buddy.....Bloomberg is now my choice, not as good Schultz, but he has shown he will work with both sides of the political spectrum.... Like you, I just love pointing out your hypocrisies, and rubbing your face in it..... Thanks for turning me on to this trick :-* :-* :-* :-* |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by WebsterMark on 11/30/19 at 11:21:27 735244524543745643370 wrote:
1) Any topic which involves Trump (or any President) is political. 2) No one is guilty of a crime until they've been adjudicated. When a Prosecutor brings a charge against someone, it is their opinion that petson has violated a law. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by WebsterMark on 11/30/19 at 11:22:15 Wrong again buddy.....Bloomberg is now my choice, not as good Schultz, but he has shown he will work with both sides of the political spectrum.... Seriously? |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by srinath on 11/30/19 at 11:27:15 153422342325123025510 wrote:
No Regerts now buddy. Tough bikers like us don't have no regerts now. Might as well get that tattoed on. Just give our tattoo artist a candy bar before they start OK. Cool. Srinath. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by Eegore on 11/30/19 at 11:36:56 "Oh please Eegore, you know what I meant." My understanding is that you meant all parts of the post you referenced were incorrect except the part you quoted. Since the provided link regarding Obstruction of Justice is Wiki and thus popular opinion, not verified fact, there may be incorrect information contained within it. I was asking what part you felt was incorrect. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by eau de sauvage on 11/30/19 at 12:13:05 5E7F697F686E597B6E1A0 wrote:
Normally I'd let this pass but I have to call you out on your above comment because it's complete and utter bollox isn't it. The original question itself was just trolling, which in itself is fine, I mean most threads here are, however to try and now get on your little high horsey and take a ride up the high road is insufferably boring. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by Eegore on 11/30/19 at 12:35:21 "The original question itself was just trolling" Yeah because it's not possible for someone to just ask a question because they have a question? I actually had an answer to this because I know a number of people who have the exact same question, primarily because they don't follow US politics so a lot of it is genuinely foreign in concept or new to them. Not everything here is subterfuge, trolling, obnoxious garbage, or somehow emotionally charged. Maybe for some, but not for all. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by eau de sauvage on 11/30/19 at 12:50:46 @Eegore, Let me explain further, on the face of it the original question is fine, and that is how I took it. It was his second comment which I took exception to and I stand by my post. Eegore, you need to understand my posts more before your hair trigger reactions. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by Eegore on 11/30/19 at 12:55:59 "The original question itself was just trolling" I also stand by my post. I know you are commenting about his second post, but I don't believe that the substance of the second post means the first "was just trolling". Not everything here is subterfuge, trolling, obnoxious garbage, or somehow emotionally charged. Maybe for some, but not for all. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by eau de sauvage on 11/30/19 at 13:03:14 @Eegore, Ok let me further further explain... The original post is purportedly a genuine question without innuendo or subterfuge yet if this were in fact true and someone wanted to know the answer to that question they would not come to an obviously rabid ultra partisan political forum to ask the question. Included in the original question is the implication that there must be an actual crime committed when in fact impeachment is not a criminal proceeding. Clinton was caught lying to congress which is a crime but that's not what they tried to get him on. But I let all that go for the reasons you state, but the follow up "I've learned my lesson" is risible. |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by eau de sauvage on 11/30/19 at 14:00:47 In fact the best answer is, should Trump the President of the most powerful nation on Earth, be allowed to wield arbitrary power? https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/stop-saying-that-impeachment-is-political |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by raydawg on 11/30/19 at 14:28:28 He doesn't....if it was true, he's already pushed the nuke button, like so many predicted..... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Just outta try and beat him in the election, let folk decide, not pundits or politicos. Sounds pretty simple. remember when Trump was whinnying prior to the outcome, about Russia interfering, and everyone pooh poohed him.... Hillary even asked him if he's accept the results/outcome, in the debates... Life can be so darn funny, how devious means trap themselves, in their own doings..... So, we should look at Hunter's tax returns, just too make sure he pays his child the right amount, didn't hide any extra rubles or yen ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Post by T And T Garage on 12/02/19 at 12:44:02 1C3D2B3D2A2C1B392C580 wrote:
DesertCat - such is the way of the Tall Table. ;D |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |