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Message started by youzguyz on 01/20/20 at 04:29:36

Title: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by youzguyz on 01/20/20 at 04:29:36

I have done my due diligence and searched the forums.
The only mention I see is a post from back in 2014 where someone said that someplace said that it was 60 in/lbs.

Clymers has a spec for the front spokes (3 to 3.5 ft/lb (36 to 42 in/lb), but says nothing about the rear spokes.

Anybody got a Suzuki Service Manual? What does it say.. if anything?

And, yeah, I got reasons for asking.. ::)

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by Dave on 01/20/20 at 07:59:38

Buchanan's Spoke and Rim wants you to torque off road spokes to 45 in/lbs - street bikes to 65 in/lbs.

When I have laced up my wheels I have found that trying to get to 65 in/lbs is impossible - as the wheel rim gets pulled out of alignment no matter how carefully I proceed. It could be that aluminum rims should not be torqued as high as steel rims...not sure what the cause is.

Since the Savage is not heavy and doesn't have a lot of power or braking power - it may not be necessary to have the spokes as tight as they would be on an 800 pound torque monster.

And......when installing new spokes/nipples the threads are lubed and turn easily - I fear that on a bike with corroded spoke threads it may be impossible to use a torque reading, and you may have to rely on the old method of "tuning" the spokes to get rid of any dull "thud" sounds when you tap on the spike with a wrench to ensure the spokes are tightened similarly.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by Dennisgb on 01/20/20 at 08:07:49

You still have to true the wheel properly. I can’t see how torque can ever be even.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by youzguyz on 01/20/20 at 10:12:45

467D7067767A61677C747966150 wrote:

I concur that 65 is impossible (or at least impractical).
Using the "tuning" method is doable on the front. The rear spokes are so short and thick that I don't know if that will work very well.

Sure hope someone has an SSM and it is listed in there.. somewhere.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by youzguyz on 01/20/20 at 10:14:02

2C2D2626213B2F2A480 wrote:

You still have to true the wheel properly. I can’t see how torque can ever be even.

Very true. But I am hoping for at least an accurate "ball park" for the torque value.

Say the torque spec is 40, like it is on the front.
"This spoke is 40, that spoke is 36, but the wheel is true" That is fine with me.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by youzguyz on 01/22/20 at 07:34:20

Just gonna give this a bump.. cause I can't believe that NOBODY out there has a Suzuki Service Manual for the LS650..

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by verslagen1 on 01/22/20 at 08:25:32

Sorry, I did look it up in the SSM and it was 3.5 ftlbs for both front and rear.
Later model went to 3.7

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by youzguyz on 01/22/20 at 13:44:21

514255544B4640424916270 wrote:

Sorry, I did look it up in the SSM and it was 3.5 ftlbs for both front and rear.
Later model went to 3.7

Thank you!!! :D

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/22/20 at 14:36:47

I laced up a set of wheels a few years back. Dave was kind enough let me use his spoke torque wrench. As hard as I tried, I could not use torque as a truing value. The spokes are at the correct torque when there is no hop and true to a few thou. That’s it.

You’ll drive yourself nuts trying to get it right with torque value. Sound is a much better indicator. Although for a rear rim the frequency would probably be useless.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by ohiomoto on 01/22/20 at 18:36:39

Wheel building is a black art. :)

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by SpamyToo on 01/22/20 at 20:46:13

Ive always just used the tone method. Get them tight to where they start giving resistance. By that I mean that the torque seems to climb significantly within a half turn or so. Of course thats after you have it on a stand and they are all centered and most of your wobble is out.

Ive tried the torque wrenches also without any good results. Just end up having an out of round rim.

Then I ping each spoke with the wrench, listen and aim for the same tone on each spoke all the way around. (kind of like tuning a guitar with a tuning fork)

It sounds very unscientific, but I have been doing it on many bikes over a bunch of years and Ive always had good results.

But yeah, more of a craft than science.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/22/20 at 21:16:23

I'm pretty sure more rims have been laced without a torque wrench than with.
Just put it together, put a piece of wire in a block, and set it by the rim.
Rotate, see distance between wire and rim, adjust,,
Do that with the whole thing,, center it on the spindle, work it to concentric and true, if it's your first time, it's gonna be a bigass hassle..
Tape on the wire
To help you get concentric.
Gotta work all three , center spindle, concentric, true,

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by badwolf on 01/22/20 at 21:46:28

I have built-up about 30 bike wheels, some with hubs I built on my lathe, cut the spokes to length and rolled on the threads. If you try to true the wheel with a torque wrench you will have more luck hunting snipe with a fishing net!
You will get it true, OR, you will get all the spokes to spec. Never both at home.
When they build wheels in a factory, they have MASSIVE JIGS that hold everything in aligment. They can torque the first spoke then go all around the wheel once and it's done!
With all my experence building bike wheels, I recomend cast wheels for m/c use.
If you must work on a spoke wheel, get true and round first, then tap ALL the spokes and do your fine tuning. A torque wrench for m/c wheels is a waste for a home builder.

( disclamer = If you are a pro at building-up spoke m/c wheels without a jig your torque wrench has got dust on it, dosen't it? No one races on spoke wheels anymore unless it's vintage. That's my opinion, of course. I'd be glad to read a post from someone here that has built-up a wheel from scratch and trued it with all the spokes at perfect torque. )

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by youzguyz on 01/23/20 at 06:34:07

Thanks for all your comments saying it is impossible to get the torque value correct on all the spokes.
I understand that.

I need the torque spec so I can get them closer to what they needs to be as I keep the tire true.

Spokes stretch. Especially when you ride.. on rough roads (dirt, river beds, etc)

Loose spokes = broken spokes
When I put the torque wrench on 10 in-lb and NOTHING happens on ANY spoke.. hmmm.. Need to tighten them up.
I said TIGHTEN.. not TRUE!!!!
I use the time honored method of starting at the spoke beside the valve, turn 1/4 turn, skip 2 spokes, turn 1/4 turn, skip 2 spokes, turn 1/4 turn, etc. Go all the way around. Go to the next spoke from the valve.. same routine, all the way around. Got the next valve from the spoke, and one more time around the wheel.
That's right THREE times around makes one "set"
Why skip 2 spokes? Because that puts you tightening on the opposite side of the rim.
Spin the wheel.. make sure you are still "True" (should be, you did the same thing to each spoke).
Keep going round and round and round. Eventually, the torque wrench will hit the value you want on a spoke.
I will be setting my wrench a bit below the spec. That way I can finish out the set of rounds with the non-torque wrench. A 1/4 turn ain't gonna put you over if you started out a bit below.

Sound OK?

Oh WAIT.. somebody is sure to say that not all the spokes will have stretched the same amount. GIVE ME A BREAK.. >:(
I will do what I need to do to get them as tight as they need to be while keeping the wheel as TRUE as I can.
Anything will be better than loose as a goose and the rim wandering all over the place under load. ;D

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/23/20 at 08:07:25

Logical plan,, reasonable approach,

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Spoke Torgue
Post by Dave on 01/24/20 at 04:47:47

You are lucky it is dry down in Texas.......all the spoke nipples on the bikes up here are corroded and stuck - and they won't budge!

I am surprised that your spokes can be adjusted - I have heard you are fond of riding across creeks on slippery low water crossings!