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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> MM's Vintage Tire Quest: /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1616099155 Message started by MMRanch on 03/18/21 at 13:25:54 |
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Title: MM's Vintage Tire Quest: Post by MMRanch on 03/18/21 at 13:25:54 If I bring KATE back home with me , then after the K-70 finishes up ... I've got one of these planed for the rear : https://www.chapmoto.com/duro-hf308-classic-tire.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIq5fz7NS67wIVgp2GCh3VAg18EAAYAiAAEgIy9vD_BwE If it works good on a Ural on their local roads then it might be a tuff tire ! I read its 6ply rated so maybe I can run it with lower air pressure ? It might last longer than the K-70 but still have the vintage look to it ? :-? There is an advantage to having a 18 inch rim , on Kate I could get one of these in 3.50x19 front and 4.00x18 rear !! ;) |
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Title: Re: Darkside tires for beginners Post by Ruttly on 03/19/21 at 08:27:24 That looks like a overseas copy of the Old Pirelli , think it was called the Universal , most commonly used for flat track racers as was the Dunlop K70. The Pirelli was used on loamy or Cush tracks and the K70 for hard pack. I haven’t seen one of those in 40 years. Racers like them for the deep tread and would razor cut the tires by hand for a better bite in the corners. |
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Title: Re: Darkside tires for beginners Post by MMRanch on 03/19/21 at 09:53:40 Yea , That's the factory tire for the URAL . They are 19" front , rear , and side car ... 3.50x19 and 4.00x19 / they all can be front or rear ?. But it does come in 4.00 x 18 too . I'm a little surprised at how fast the K-70 is wearing . It has plenty of traction , but I've put about 2500 miles on it and its 1/4 gone. I can get the K-70 in 3.25 x 19 and 4.00 x 18 too . So . There are two Retro tires that fit a lot of the retro bikes . I didn't know it till I started looking , but : The CONTINENTAL CONTI TWINS K112 CLASSIC TIRE come in Retro sizes and that includes a 16" rear that is very popular for hard tails. A pair of them would look REALLY GOOD on a cast wheeled SAVAGE ! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Darkside tires for beginners Post by Ruttly on 03/20/21 at 01:11:51 Duro HF308 $55-60 They also do a copy of a Dunlop K81 about the same price the HF314 Cheap tires Cheap tires scare me |
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Title: Re: Darkside tires for beginners Post by Dave on 03/20/21 at 03:11:56 MM: This is the description of the Duro HF308 that is used on the Ural: Tough 6 ply rating provides excellent puncture resistance and handles extra carrying capacity A true utility tire, this motorcycle tire fits front, rear and sidecar wheels and handles well in a variety of conditions. Put it on when there’s extra weight, or risk of puncture. None of that matches the bikes you own......or your style of riding. The tread cross section has a wide flat area to match the fact that motorcycles with sidecars don't lean. The Conti Twins looks like a much better tire if you want the vintage look. They are not an inexpensive tire and a lot of the reviews state they last 6,000 miles. I don't believe this tire is going to satisfy your desire for long mileage at a low price. https://www.denniskirk.com/continental/conti-twin-rb2-k112-tire.pfp54185.prdf A lot of the vintage bikes get tires installed so the bike looks right, and the tires will never be worn out as the bikes are not often ridden. Here is a BSA Goldstar Clubman a fellow sent me last week - look at the color of the tires and you will see the tires are getting old and hard......with all the tread unworn! |
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Title: Re: MM's Vintage Tire Quest: Post by MMRanch on 03/20/21 at 07:45:40 That Gold Star has the same looking tires that Kate had when I came to her rescue . Dry rotted , but same look . ....................... I do like that "LooK" , of the K-70 ish tire. :) ............................... |
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Title: Re: MM's Vintage Tire Quest: Post by Ruttly on 03/20/21 at 09:44:48 That Gold Star has Dunlop’s K81s , great old school tire. That Duro that looks like a old Pirelli does look somewhat flat in the tread but actually rounds out nicely once inflated for $55 even I would try one. |
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Title: Re: MM's Vintage Tire Quest: Post by Ruttly on 03/20/21 at 09:53:33 That Gold Star is sweet , pure unadulterated motorcycle porn. Would look good in my garage , wouldn’t change anything but maybe new shoes. |
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Title: Re: MM's Vintage Tire Quest: Post by MMRanch on 03/20/21 at 20:15:27 Hay Versey I sort of remember the CB500/4 having tall tires . Is the rear a 18 inch ? Something else : The last four cylinder I had (KZ750/4) is what drove me to a single carb bike. As in : What's worse than having a carb on your bike ? .... having 2 carbs ! ;D etc. So have you had the idea that : a four cycle machine of four cylinders should work very well with a single carb , because the draw on the single carb is more constant , and a lot less Pain in the A$$ in maintaince :-? I wanted to put only one carb on my two cylinder machine but the frame is in the way ... one bar behind the motor right in the middle where my single carb would need to be. >:( So one of my questions is , does that Honda lend it's self to a new intake manifold ? |
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Title: Re: MM's Vintage Tire Quest: Post by MMRanch on 03/20/21 at 20:42:58 Hay ! I just noticed - That Gold Star has copied the seat on the W650 ? ;D |
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Title: Re: MM's Vintage Tire Quest: Post by verslagen1 on 03/20/21 at 21:44:28 584A584A47545B565D150 wrote:
There was a lot of discussion on that subject, but I didn't see anything conclusive. 2 schools of thought, place the carb off to the right with a manifold feeding all the cylinders. Or an octopus manifold with 4 equal length legs. |
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Title: Re: MM's Vintage Tire Quest: Post by MMRanch on 03/20/21 at 22:42:53 Hay Versey I had a tractor with a up-draft carb for my first tractor (JD-1010) . It was gas fueled and the up part must have been at least 6 inches or more from the carb to the intake. Well , it would run all day working hard on 5 gallons of fuel. :) Apparently , it ran on fumes . I don't think it has to be the same distance from the carb to all the intake ports . Just look at some of the in-line eight cylinder motors with the single barrel carb mounted in the middle. They worked just fine. I'd think a single feeder tube with 4 intake rubber connectors on one side and a single carb connector in the middle on the other would be nice . If there is room ? I even thought of the up-draft option but it didn't help enough with the room problem. I didn't want to turn the carb 90 deg. is what held me back. |
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Title: Re: MM's Vintage Tire Quest: Post by MMRanch on 03/21/21 at 21:46:51 None of that matches the bikes you own......or your style of riding. The tread cross section has a wide flat area to match the fact that motorcycles with sidecars don't lean. ........................ Dave I'm ridding double on the Guzzi almost all the time , and half the time on Kate too. That's good , Marcia likes to go and I'm glad she does. She trust me to drag pegs on the Dragon with her on the back ! :) The truth is that locally most of my/our ridding is on strait roads going slow beside a creek winding through some back roads. Some time these type of roads are not smooth . so A nice heavy tire with 28 pounds of air that can soak-up some of the pot hole stuff is just perfect , it has to be tuff too. 8-) On the other hand : The Savage still has Kenda Challengers with 30+ pounds of air and in the 90/90 and 120/90 sizes . You kind of showed us that those narrow soft tire can be more effective in the fun department. And you were Right Too ! There was a time when I thought that a 140 rear was better in the twisties , but I've seen the light/and/flickable - ya might say ! 8-) 8-) The front may be a Shinko 250 ? Same size and pattern. :) |
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Title: Re: MM's Vintage Tire Quest: Post by Dave on 03/22/21 at 18:24:37 150715070A19161B10580 wrote:
MM: There isn't anything magical about updraft carbs. They are one of the oldest style of carbs, and nearly every early inline engine on cars/trucks/tractors/stationary engines used them. One big advantage was they could be run without a fuel pump. Most fuel tanks in early cars were under the front seats, and the carb had to be lower than the seat for the fuel to flow. On a Ford Model T when climbing steep hills the fuel tank would end up lower than the carb and the car would stop running - the driver would have to turn around and back up the hill. Updraft carbs and long vertical intake manifolds were a problem when starting a car that had a crank, as the large engines could not be cranked more than one very hard upward pull of the crank handle - and that was not enough to get a dose of fuel/air into the cylinders.....and on those cars there were manual priming cups that were used to get fuel into the cylinders during a cold start (you had to put a small amount of fuel into each cylinder). On a hot start there often was enough fuel laying in the intake manifold from when the engine was shut off that you didn't have to prime the engine again. Most cars stopped using the updraft carb in the early 30's and began to use the downdraft carbs - and the cars had fuel pumps and the fuel tanks was at the rear of the car between the rear axle and bumper. I looked up your John Deere 1010 and the gas version was 36 HP at 2,400 rpm from a 1.9 liter engine. That engine makes 19 HP per 1,000 cc of engine size. That pretty much sums up why the engine could run a long time on 5 gallons of gas - it was a very low performance engine. If your Moto Guzzi was built with the same performance it would be 14 HP! In the early 70's a high performance engine did well to get 100 HP per liter. My 2002 Ninja 250 was 30 HP in a street driven motorcycle = which is 120 HP per liter! While it is true that many 4,6 and 8 cylinder automobile engines can use one carb and an intake manifold with multiple runners - the level of engine performance is not at the same level of motorcycle engines. The kind of engine performance that we expect from a motorcycle generally requires that each cylinder have a dedicated carb for each cylinder. For a number of years the British motorcycle companies made twin cylinder engines with a single carb being shared by both cylinders (Norton Atlas, Triumph Speed Twin, BSA Thunderbolt) - but for more power part of the improvements included dual carbs (Norton Commando, Triumph Bonneville, BSA Lighting). So your quest for a single carb to work for both cylinders is possible - but you will likely lose a few HP in the process. And there is really no need to go to an updraft carb, as that had very little to do with the John Deere 1010 being fuel efficient......the fact that it was such a low stressed engine was the key to it's durability and fuel efficiency. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgWb2nmxfAU [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgWb2nmxfAU[/media] |
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Title: Re: MM's Vintage Tire Quest: Post by MMRanch on 03/22/21 at 20:27:57 Thanks Dave , That is so interesting about the old tec stuff. That Hendrixson had the single and up-draft to four cylinders , but seemed to still run just fine. . It sounded good anyway. I'm not sure I want to go that far back into history ? But , I'd sure like to ride it once ! ;) True Story : Back in 73 (I feel so old sometimes) I was ridding a 71 Yamaha SX650 (dual carb.) from North Florida to my next duty station in El Paso Tx. by way of San Antonio . I met a guy (ridding buddy) in Orlando who lived in San Antonio , well he was ridding an old Triumph (Tiger ?) Chopper 650 with the single carb set-up. His mom owned a restaurant in San Antonio and he promised me his -ridding buddy - dinner when we got there ... So , side by side down, the interstate we went . The points I want to establish are : The Triumph was a Small piston Long stroke engine w/single carb. The Yamaha was a Fat piston Short stroke engine w/dual carbs. Performance : The Triumph could (High gear) Pull away from me any time he wanted to. Every time we stopped for Fuel the Triumph would need at least 20 percent less fuel that my Fat Piston Dual carb Yamaha . Remember , we were "Side by Side" running down the road ! ???? :-? That "Up-Draft" thing was in attempt to gain room to work around the center frame support behind the carb area. So , I'm stuck with keeping two carbs up instead of one. I could make an intake manifold , but moving the frame pipe would be a real job ! :( I did have a single carb Honda CD175 a long time ago . It might have been milder tuned (cam) than its dual carb siblings , but it keep-up just fine. :) https://www.facebook.com/HondaCD175/ |
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