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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 5th Gear ? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1660840979 Message started by ThumperPaul on 08/18/22 at 09:42:59 |
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Title: 5th Gear ? Post by ThumperPaul on 08/18/22 at 09:42:59 I bought a used 2004 Savage recently. It should have 5 gears. I go to shift into 5th and it doesn't seem to be there... Is there a minimum speed (or rpm) to engage 5th gear? I've been trying to hit 5th around 50-55mph. What is this "neutral" thing between 4th and 5th I saw a couple comments about? Thanks guys. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by Ruttly on 08/18/22 at 12:08:20 Research the stamped serial number on the engine , engine swapped ? |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by verslagen1 on 08/18/22 at 13:32:40 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1240553196 |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by ThumperPaul on 08/19/22 at 05:19:35 Thanks for the info guys. The engine number falls in the range for a 2004 (P401-160137). The sprocket cover also shows 1N2345 (although that could easily have been swapped). The bikes upshifts and downshifts fine for 1-4. Where's my 5th gear? lol |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by verslagen1 on 08/19/22 at 10:25:05 It could be an adjustment. The shifter might be bottoming out on a bolt. Or the shift lever might be in the wrong position. typically, there's a center punch mark on the shaft and the slot of the lever aligns with it, but might require being 1 tooth to the side. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by Ruttly on 08/19/22 at 11:43:07 Do Not Stomp the Shifter that will not fix it , risk loosing another gear or worse. Fix it , pay to get it fixed , sell it , pick one ! Yup options are grim. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by ThumperPaul on 08/19/22 at 11:53:23 Thank you, Verslagen. I'll take a look at that. Update on my carb jetting with the Jardine Rumbler series muffler. I bumped up the main jet to #150 and reduced the spacer to a single nylon #4 spacer (about 1/3 thinner than stock, .066" thick if I remember the descrition correctly at ACE). I did not change the Pilot jet (still on the #52.5). Max rpm on the air/fuel screw is still at about 2.25 turns out. There is no noticeable drop in rpm at 3 turns out. However, you can tell it's a bit richer and the backfire on deceleration is lessened at 3 turns out compared to 2.25 turns out. She still wants to backfire pretty good. I'm humbly starting to believe you that I'm not going to eliminate the backfire with the Jardine pipe. FYI - It's a simple wrapped core - virtually an open straight pipe. Any further suggestions on the carb tuning are appreciated. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by TheSneeze on 08/19/22 at 11:54:45 I think DBM was looking at being able to swap transmissions - maybe a 4 speed (downgrade?) into a 5 speed case. I know you cannot fit a 5 speed trans into a 4 speed case. Seems like a slim possibility to me, but maybe someone fitted a 4 speed in there? I know, it's a real reach here... |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by ThumperPaul on 08/19/22 at 12:08:41 Hey Ruttly. I've been riding almost 50 years. My shifter stomping days are long gone. Plus, I don't know how to stomp up to 5th with my big toe. lol |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by verslagen1 on 08/19/22 at 12:44:08 023E233B2633240637233A560 wrote:
1st 1 change at a time. changing the spacer while changing the main will give false impressions. change the main for proper top end change the spacer for proper mid range. backfire (technically afterfire) is caused in the stock system by unburned fuel in the muffler and on shutoff fresh air is drawn into the muffler causing a big bang. or by an air leak at the header or muffler connections. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/22 at 13:09:04 Engine off Sitting on the bike, rock the bike forward and back, hold light pressure up on the shifter Get it in neutral and start working through the gears. If you haven't yet, it would not be a bad idea to get on the ground and eyeball your shift rod. The way I see it, a bent rod will upshift better than down shift. But one of our gurus may come along and say I'm wrong. Nothing wrong with laying down and pushing up on the shifter and see if something is keeping it from moving through its full travel. If it has the dimple in it, compare where the shift lever is to the picture. I usually don't use the clutch to get from second to third and on up. Instead of gripping the throttle I lay my hand flat on top and shove it forward and shift right quick. It's just a forward thrust and immediately back. Works great. It's easier when you're going to almost the end of your best torque. As in, running the snot out of it. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by ThumperPaul on 08/19/22 at 13:50:22 Thanks again, Verslagen. I should have made 1 change at a time. But I thought I had gathered the collected wisdom and went for 2 changes. Dare I go to the #55 pilot to try to help resolve? The top is pretty good and led to the discovery that I can’t find 5th gear. Bike runs strong and almost seems rich at 3/4 throttle. More trial and error I guess. I’m going to keep plugging but would like your thoughts on doing the #55. And I do have a tiny leak on the exhaust where the muffler connects. I just need to keep tinkering. Really appreciate your help and this site is the bomb! So glad I’m not on this ride totally alone! |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by verslagen1 on 08/19/22 at 19:15:27 impossible for anyone to know what's right for you, your system is different in a different part of the world. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by ThumperPaul on 08/20/22 at 04:48:36 True. Thanks. Also, I found 5th gear. I must have been skipping through a gear up or down somewhere getting to and from 5th. I’m going for a ride today and will pay attention to my shifting. I think I’m skipping through 4th. Take care. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/22 at 08:43:19 The difference between fourth and fifth is not a lot. Some of these guys, blessed with a memory I never had, know the ratios. If the jump from first to second wasn't so big it would be easy to ditch the clutch going through the gears, but I was never able to get it down in the few times I tried it. Just too harsh, even when it slipped in without a sound. Have you eyeballed the shift rod? |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by verslagen1 on 08/20/22 at 10:50:38 the guy has a stutter step. :) |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by ThumperPaul on 08/20/22 at 12:18:30 Thanks Justin. You are right about the ratios. 1st to 2nd is a wider gap and 4th to 5th is very narrow. With the bike running better now, I was able to distinguish that I was actually hitting 5th. Maybe I need to learn how to count better. lol |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by ThumperPaul on 08/20/22 at 12:19:58 Verslagen - Yes, I have a stutter step. LOL. Thanks for all your help, time, and patience with me. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by Ruttly on 08/20/22 at 12:37:19 665A475F4257406253475E320 wrote:
Yeah I’m always looking for 6th gear on mine ! ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by Ruttly on 08/20/22 at 12:43:49 Welcome to SS |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by ThumperPaul on 08/20/22 at 13:04:34 Thanks Ruttly! Yup, my previous bike was 6 gear with a very narrow shift band. I’m older so I’m not doing a lot of highway cruising these days. I may only use 5th on the Savage occasionally, but I want to get the bike right and have 5th if I need it. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by Needles on 09/11/22 at 15:56:15 My '02 had some wonkiness with the shifting, worse than the usual description of iffy downshifting. The PO was a little 20-something girl, and the shift lever itself was nearly impossible to get my size 12 under for upshifting, since I can't point my toes like a ballerina, especially wearing boots.. I went to adjust it and realized that the shifter rod had been bent and the shaft end of the linkage had been moved around a couple of notches towards the front. The PO finally admitted her boyfriend, who, "has a bike, too" had moved the shifter lever down so she wouldn't hit it with her foot accidentally. You could see where the shifter rod had been basically bent with something. Anyway, I straightened the connecting rod, moved the shaft arm back to the mark. (The little arm should be vertical,or nearly so, btw.) and adjusted it to a comfortable height. That solved the shifting problems. (It does need some occasional coaxing to get into 1st, but rocking it a bit with light pressure on the shifter does it.) It makes sense--- the best "throw" on the shifter shaft is going to be with the shifter arm and rod at 90 degrees. That gives you equal movement shifting up or down. if you move it one tooth forward, that would give you a longer movement back (upshifting) but it shortens the movement when downshifting. Some problems are "Previous Owner Source" Maintenance, POS for short... ::) |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by ThumperPaul on 09/12/22 at 04:39:47 Good info. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/12/22 at 09:44:07 Needles,if your shift rod has been bent, I think you should get a new one. If it's flexing on downshifts it's liable to screw you over one day. If I bought a Savage with a battery that I didn't Know was reasonably fresh and had not been abused, like leaving the key on and sucking it real low a time or two, I'm putting a new one in, because they Know how far from home you are and that it's gonna start raining about five minutes after you get home.. BwaHaHaHaaa! Nope, just a click for you, Buddy! The shift rod can strand you and faking that in a parking lot isn't easy. I remember someone had one that was flaky and he got it on the bench and brazed a heavy wire to it. Maybe one of our engineers will tell you how much concern you should have. I'm quite possibly more concerned about it than is reasonable. Maybe a little flex is no biggie. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by Needles on 09/12/22 at 16:25:02 Oh, I ordered another one! I just thought it was a Neanderthal solution to getting the shifter lower, and the shifter arm being moved was definitely affecting the downshifting. Also, the bent part of the shifter rod was hitting on the part of the frame that runs under the rod when you'd try to shift. Mine is 20 years old. There are people who will do just enough to sell a bike, sort of like the old trick of pouring babit metal around a knocking rod bearing in old cars... |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by ThumperPaul on 09/13/22 at 04:31:01 Yeah, it’s always a bit of a gamble buying an older used bike. My 5th gear issue turned out to be a rider issue and not being familiar with the bike. I was hitting 5th gear and just not realizing it. There isn’t a huge change in RPM or engine sound. Since I was still learning the bike and not blasting every gear to a high shift point, I wasn’t noticing the drop in RPM hitting 5th at 45-50mph. Now that I’ve gone through the bike and feel more comfortable with its soundness/safety, I’m pushing higher speeds and shift points. It’s much more obvious going into 5th at 60-65mph than at 45-50mph. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by Needles on 09/13/22 at 06:48:53 You can usually tell you're in top gear, whether it's 5th or 4th, or even 6th, by lifting the shifter like you're trying to upshift. If you're already in top gear, it'll have almost no resistance, and definitely won't "click". Even my Moto Guzzi feels like that, and I'm pretty sure the gearbox was designed in the 1950s. |
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Title: Re: 5th Gear ? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/14/22 at 08:44:42 The guy was questioning whether or not it was going up a gear from fourth since the rpm change is so small. The shifter not changing gears because it is already in fifth didn't help him with that. I'm saddened often by lifting the shifter again and realizing the box has no more gears to offer. |
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