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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1704894590 Message started by ThumperPaul on 01/10/24 at 05:49:50 |
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Title: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by ThumperPaul on 01/10/24 at 05:49:50 Shell added 10w/30 weight oil sometime last year. In Houston, I’ve always used 15w/40 year round. The 10w/30 might make sense in colder climates for those that can tolerate riding in colder weather. Has anybody tried the new 10w/30? I’m a T4 Dino juice guy and haven’t made the leap to full synthetic. I’d rather be cheap and do more frequent oil changes. While many of us use Rotella T4 or T6 and know it’s safe and good (with ZDDP) for our old design thumpers, it’s actually not JASO MA/MA approved/certified. You can check the JASO list (it ain’t listed). The bottle says something like “meets or exceeds the requirements of MA/MA2”. Curiously the T5 (synthetic blend) container doesn’t include this language. I highly doubt Shell would make the statement if it wasn’t true. They don’t want lawsuits, but they also don’t want to pay or spend the time getting it JASO certified is my thinking. Sharing for thoughts and to let people know the new 10w/30 T6 is available. It’s also about 33° in Houston this morning, and my jug of 15w/40 in the garage is like cold maple syrup. I brought it in the house to warm up before I fill my bike today. It got me to thinking about using 10w/30 weight oil for a couple months. https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/products/full-synthetic-oil/T6-10W-30-full-synthetic.html |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Ruttly on 01/10/24 at 10:15:32 I kinda wish they did a 20/50 for my BSA projects and I’m still wanting to use Castrol in them. I’m pretty sure ROTELLA 15/40 will be just fine in the BSAs. As far as changing to different weight of oil at different times of the year, I wouldn’t. Pick a good oil in the proper weight and stick with it. Every builder I ever talked to said the same. I just want one brand & weight of oil for all my singles , a couple of jugs on the shelf not a bunch of different brands. Todays oils are great but cannot recommend changing weights just cause it’s cold out. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by ThumperPaul on 01/10/24 at 12:02:56 That’s interesting. I’ve never heard of changing weight for different temperatures being an issue. I’ve even read and heard people mixing brands and alternating between conventional and synthetic. It’s probably fine, but I’m like you - find something that works and stick with it. Of course, the main thing is have the right amount and keep it fresh! |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Dave on 01/11/24 at 02:53:39 For my motorcycles - the "5W", "10W, "15W" is of no concern. That rating is established at 0c/32f and I am never going to be starting my motorcycle at that temperature. For the temperatures I ride at the difference in force required to start a cold engine is negligible. For my cars it is a different story, as I do drive my cars in the winter and our weather forecast for next week drops below zero! The higher 30/40/50 number does have a meaning to me - I mostly run 40 weight oil and use either Rotella 15W-40......as 5W-40 likely has more additives to keep the oil flowing at lower temperatures....and I don't need those additives taking up space in my oil. I never use 30 weight oil in my air cooled motorcycles....once the riding season arrives I often ride at temperatures over 90 degrees (summer). |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Gyrobob on 01/14/24 at 08:48:51 Has the package (ingredient list) (zddp amounts)(etcetera) for Rotella 15w40 full synthetic changed over the past decade or so,...... or has it pretty much stayed the same; being the preferred oil for our beloved 650 thumper? I have a 5 gallon bottle I bought several years ago, and I plan on using it shortly unless I find out some reason not to. Verslagen recommends I use it, and he has always been one of the experts I like to query about these types of issues. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by ThumperPaul on 01/14/24 at 10:52:09 Good question. The Shell website, product description, nor brochure disclose their proprietary concoction. This 3rd party independent analysis by the Petroleum Quality Institute of America conducted in 2021 indicates 1,130ppm of ZDDP. Other good information on the ingredients. Link to analysis below. https://pqia.org/shell-rotella-t4-sae-15w-40-heavy-duty-diesel-engine-oil/ There are other anecdotal comments on "Bob is the Oil Guy" that supposedly quote emails from Shell indicating that the amount of ZDDP hasn't changed. I'd use up your 5 gallon bucket - "Good to the last drop". (wait...that's a Maxwell House coffee jingle). Of course, someone will say that oil goes bad after 5 years or the expiration date. I've never had an extra container of oil for more than a year, so I have no clue. While some of the reasoning as to how it can go bad makes sense, if you keep it properly stored in a good sealed container, I'd suspect 5 years is on the conservative side and they just want to sell you more fresh oil. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Zoltan on 01/22/24 at 07:45:08 As this is a fairly recent Oil thread, let me pipe in! I keep looking, but see both con and pro answers whenever i search for some Rotella equivalent in Europe. I only saw Rotella once in my life, on a Thai holiday, a bottle of it bobbing up and down in the bilge water of a long tail boat. :D We have Rimula R4 instead, but again, as with internet always, you just won't find a straight answer. I got hold of a certificate of analysis of that product and it states 1080ppm phosphorous content. That's all, the rest of the report is only viscosity and specific weights etc. I found an oil with Jaso rating, that has "higher zddp" (though it does not say how much), Millers Classic 20w50, dino oil... Again, no info of specifics I'd like to find a dino oil that i can get off the shelf in the local tractor store, and be happy with it. Anybody has experience with European market / Eastern European market? |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by LANCER on 01/22/24 at 16:02:31 I use Rotella T4 (Dino oil) most of the time, and if found and on sale I also use ….cal , but it’s hard to find. Both have good levels of ZDDP. I use T4 because of price, because I change my oil when it begins to get dirty. It’s the carbon/grit/etc that the oil collects as it moves through the engine, and that causes most/a lot of the wear, and clogging things. Our filters are barely adequate. Clarity begins to leave my oil in the 1500-2000 mile range, and by 2500 it’s cloudy. If it’s cloudy then Im circulating particles that cause wear. So I change it. T-6 is great but it costs more. When does your oil begin to turn color and go cloudy ? The oil molecules may still be good based upon milage but the junk they pick up and carry around is not. Do you still want to continue using it ? I don’t. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Dave on 01/23/24 at 03:34:57 When an oil is "synthetic" - it is not some magical elixer compared to Dino oil. The Synthetic label can be used on a lot of oils that have been prepared in many different ways. https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-is-synthetic-oil-made/ The big advantage of synthetic motor oils is not really more protection or reduced wear for your engine when the oil is new - the big benefit of synthetic oil is that there are less impurities and the long molecular chains break down slower and the oil can be used for extended oil change intervals. Some oil manufacturers claim they provide protection for 10,000 or 20,000 miles!. (There are lots of mechanics on YouTube showing the damage to cam chains and guides that they believe is coming from these excessive oil change intervals). Like Lancer, I change the oil my motorcycles pretty often and likely have less than 2,000 miles between oil changes. (I change the filter every other change). Synthetic oils don't provide much of an improvement over Dino oils when changing oil this often. Even if you do use synthetic...a couple of quarts of oil for the Savage is only a bit more than $10 if you are using Rotella and shop wisely. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by ThumperPaul on 01/25/24 at 06:47:41 The mileage claims are ridiculous! Change your darn oil! It’s easy to like Rotella T4 when it’s $15.98/gallon at Walmart. Essentially enough for 2 oil changes. I’m with you Lancer and Dave. I’m a frequent oil changer about every 1,000 miles (filter every other oil change). It bothers me to look in the window and see cloudy or dark oil. It’s so rewarding to see that nice golden oil through the window. I did recently buy a gallon of T6 on sale for $23 at Walmart. That’s going in the Shadow at next oil change and I’ll probably still change it at 1500 miles. I do think synthetic is superior oil based on the molecules. It cleans better in my opinion. Compare color to Dino juice at the same mileage and the synthetic will be darker. To me that means it’s collecting more crap. My comparison is based on my F-150 at 4,000 miles. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by LANCER on 01/25/24 at 13:08:51 I use T4 in my ‘08 Dodge Dakota, c/ 3.7L V-6 & standard valve train & lower CR, a lot like the LS650 except for air-vs-oil cooling. It likes it. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Zoltan on 01/26/24 at 06:23:30 A friend of mine who works with Shell aviation lubes used some shell tool to see what is covering the bike. (Though I do not claim to know how the algorithm works). The oils he came up with when I asked about Rotella equivalent in Europe was not Rimula (though he too said it's very much the same, with slightly different additive package), but Shell 4T AX7, You will get the details here, with specs PDF: https://www.shell.com/motorist/find-the-right-oil.html He checked the additive package for me (perks of being high up in the lubes foodchain) and said that it had high level of ZDDP, though again, I do not know how much... See the certificate of analysis below. Pricewise it's a good 25% more than Rimula, so you get a 4L can instead of the Rimulas 5L can for the same amount of coin. But then again, it's synthetic, while Rimula is mineral. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Zoltan on 01/26/24 at 06:29:14 Here you see phosphorous and zinc content, though I'm not clear on how this might translate to the much mentioned ZDDP content. I hope it helps some lost (in a sea of oils and opinions) European like myself. :D |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by FinnHammer on 01/26/24 at 07:58:13 Zoltan, all I think perhaps this oil from Castrol may fit the ticket. I have no experience with it, my bike is still dismantled. It may affect clutch operation, again, I don't know. It is called Castrol Revival V67SL This is what they say about it: (sounds compelling, no?) Classic mineral 10w/40 motor oil with reduced viscosity and increased camshaft wear protection. Zinc content 2200 ppm. Suitable for hydraulic valve lifters. This oil has been developed to meet the problem of the wear protection effect of engine oils on classic engines and racing engines with flat cam followers. On each rotation of the cam, the oil film will be pushed away for a short moment between the cam and the cam follower. Anti-wear additives in the oil must here form a protective surface that prevents erosion of the metal surfaces of the cam and cam follower. The wear problem increases with increasing pressure on the cam followers - i.e. the sharper the cam, the larger the valves, the harder the valve springs, the greater the pressure and the more wear - i.e. the problem is greatest on large V8 engines as well as on racing engines and other tuned engines. The problem is greatest on relatively high-performance engines and on pushrod engines with mechanical valve lifters, but also occurs on engines with hydraulic valve lifters and overhead camshafts. On more modern engines, the problem is eliminated through different valve arrangements, different material selection and lower pressure on the valve lifters. Some of the anti-wear additives are gathered in a carefully composed package of zinc, phosphorus and sulfur compounds that reduce friction and wear. The package is often referred to as ZDDP. Due to contamination of catalysts, API lowered the maximum permitted content of ZDDP in API classified motor oils years ago – this effectively covers all available motor oils on the European market. The content of anti-wear additives in Castrol Classic oils is right up to the limit set by API, while modern fuel-saving oils are far below. To reduce wear on the camshafts, we have developed 'Revival V67SL²', which is a modified classic mineral 10w/40 oil with an increased content of the anti-wear additives. The content of the anti-wear additives has thus been brought up to par with the most durable motor oils from the 60s and 70s. Due to the high content of anti-wear additives, the oil cannot be classified according to the API rules. Under no circumstances must it be used in an engine with a catalytic converter. Specifications: SAE 10w/40 SAE 10w/40 |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by youzguyz on 01/26/24 at 13:14:57 7B475A425F4A5D7F4E5A432F0 wrote:
i don't know what "JASO list" you are referring to. I am staring at the back side of a gallon jug of Rotella T6 5W-40. It says "JASO DH2, JASO MA/MA2". I could take a picture, if I wasn't so lazy. I have used Rotella T6 exclusively on my Savages. I am not a frequent oil changer (any where around 8k to 10k miles if I think about and it's too late to go for a ride that day). Has that hurt the engines? Dunno.. :-? :-/ I do know I got a LOT of miles on both of them! :D Hmmmm.. Thumper really should get an oil change pretty soon. OK.. you made me go look. Thumper is only at 5k miles. Mad Hamish, however, is at 10k. Get to that soon.. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by ThumperPaul on 01/26/24 at 15:20:24 Here’s the list, Youzguyz. And change that stinky oil! https://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf I even looked under “Sopus Products”. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by verslagen1 on 01/26/24 at 17:34:11 In the notes it says that may not precisely copy the marketing label. So that would imply that the label on the product would supersede this list as far as whether or not it belongs on the list. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by ThumperPaul on 01/27/24 at 05:24:33 The label on the jug is carefully worded. It first lists the actual approvals and then says “meets the requirements of” where it then lists JASO MA/MA2. Shell’s lawyers at work. I suspect Shell just hasn’t spent the time, money, and effort to get the actual approvals. The JASO list is updated as of 2024. When I looked at this last year, Shell products weren’t on the list either. If Rotella is actually approved, I’m sure Shell would make sure their products are on the list. The big 4 sure got a lot of ink in the publication. Motul isn’t shy or too far behind either. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/27/24 at 05:31:36 3,000 miles is as long as you want to go on an air cooled engine. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by ThumperPaul on 01/27/24 at 06:02:08 I agree, Gary. Especially on a hard working thumper. When I was into dirt bikes, they got an oil change about every 20 hours of run time. That probably equates to something like 400-600 miles. Most of them only took 1 quart of oil - not a big expense and easy to do. Those bikes got dogged hard! |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by ohiomoto on 01/27/24 at 18:44:24 Not quite an "oil war" yet. We'll go with "oil conflict". Carry on. ;D |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Dave on 01/28/24 at 03:42:43 262C28222920242D737571410 wrote:
I have also seen videos of mechanics warning about changing oil in your car when the "Oil Life" computer tells you to. They believe the interval the car calculates is way too long. The V6 engines are having cam chain and guide wear issues at 100,000 miles, and the replacement job is labor intensive and costs several thousand dollars. They recommend staying with 5,000 mile oil and filter changes.....ignore your computer. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by youzguyz on 01/28/24 at 03:53:59 Carrying on! ;D The way I understand it, JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Organization) does not actually test anything. They just supply the standards for a given specification: https://360.lubrizol.com/Specifications/JASO/JASO-MA2 The manufacturer can formulate product that meets (or exceeds) those specifications and can then state (as seen on the T6 bottle) "Meets the performance requirements of:" followed by the alphabet soup, including JASO MA/MA2. IF said manufacturer wants to be able to include the OFFICIAL JASO tag on their labeling, they need to send test results (and formulation?) to JASO. JASO sends them a confirmation letter, manufacturer returns it, and the product is put on the list. In that regard, "Meets the performance requirements of:", on Rotella T6 is OK by me. (especially since I have 3 gallons of it). |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Dave on 01/28/24 at 08:40:37 I just looked at my wife's car with the Ecoboost 2.0. I changed the oil and reset the "Oil Life" computer a while ago. The car has gone 2,752 miles and it shows that 73% of the oil life is left. At that rate the oil change will not be due until 11,000 miles! I will change it at 5,000 miles. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Ruttly on 01/28/24 at 08:57:05 You guys on the verge of an oil war and no one called me !!! Slowly I turn , inch by inch , step by step |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Dave on 01/28/24 at 10:13:10 You can't have a war if everyone is on the same side! :) |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Ruttly on 01/28/24 at 11:12:42 You forgot , I can always play the devil’s advocate. For a minute , for fun ! Makes for good reading. ;D |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Dave on 01/28/24 at 11:52:47 446362627A6F160 wrote:
I am gifted with the ability to move, hide or delete stuff!!!!!! ;D |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Zoltan on 01/29/24 at 06:03:09 576C6176676B70766D656877040 wrote:
:D I'd happily change Rotella around every 5000kms if the bloody thing would be available. I'm 100% sure that a man can find something absolutely similar, maybe even from a LOTOS or ORLEN blending plant that would go for chips in every petrol station / tractor store nearby. But It seems to be awfully difficult to get any decent information on oils. Like Zddp content. (JASO MA is available, though truck oils rarely get tested on it.... I really do wonder If a locally produced dino juice is any different from Rotella... After all, we are using them in pretty much the same hardware. I might ask a driver next time i go for the Czech truck trial. (Check it out guys, you gonna love it.) If something works for an 8x8 truck with V8 aircooled turbodiesel whipped up the side of sand quarry... It might work in the Savage too. :D FinnHammer: That oil is totally unknown here, sadly. The local fleabay have not even heard about it. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by ThumperPaul on 01/29/24 at 10:16:39 Are y'all saying oil life indicators aren't based on onboard lab testing equipment? The manual for my F-150 says 7,500 miles intervals using synthetic blend. When the truck was still under warranty, it was allowed to go to the dealership for free oil changes. Service Tech said the interval was 5,000 miles and showed me his computer screen of the 'service manual' that said 5,000. Seems Ford can't even agree in their own literature and manuals what the right interval is. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by ThumperPaul on 01/29/24 at 10:21:19 Shell even acknowledges in their own frequently asked questions that Rotella isn't JASO approved. https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/info-hub/heavy-duty-engine-oil-faq.html#:~:text=MA%2F%20MA2%20approved%3F-,Shell%20Rotella%20T6%200W%2D40%20Full%20Synthetic%20Heavy%20Duty%20Engine,the%20specification%20in%20its%20place. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Dave on 01/30/24 at 03:04:15 724E534B5643547647534A260 wrote:
If the attached is what you are referring to - the way I read it the T6 in 0W-40 is not approved......however the T6 in 5W-40 and 15W-40 are MA/MA2 approved and Shell is suggesting you use those oils. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by ThumperPaul on 01/30/24 at 04:41:28 Good catch, Dave. I need to learn to read more closely. I didn’t catch that this FAQ was specific to 0w-40. With 5W-40 having already been available, I’m gathering that no one is using the new 10w-30 (my original question and fyi…). I guess nobody is riding regularly when it’s below 40°. Bunch of wimps like me! I don’t care to ride when it’s below 55°! Back to the “oil conflict” as OhioMoto put it! |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/30/24 at 06:12:03 I have found that my low temperature riding limit is always about the same as my age. It was ridiculously low when I was in college, and ridiculously high now that I'm in my 60's. |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by ThumperPaul on 01/30/24 at 06:46:26 You nailed it Gary!! Being in Houston and not wanting to do winter storage hibernation, I force myself to hopefully find 1-2 hours per week that i can ride when its above 60! Usually from 1-3pm. In the summer, I try to finish rides by 11am before the heat index is 100+ degrees! |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by Zoltan on 01/31/24 at 01:23:17 3C363238333A3E37696F6B5B0 wrote:
Fair enough! I used a Jawa 350 to commute to work when I was 22... In October - November I often rode in snow or rain. But I kinda had to... Lately I rather picked the car... and by lately I mean the last 15 years. :D Tomorrow is Elefantentreffen though, 700km ride in 2 days, so i better man up! |
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Title: Re: ShellRotella T6 10w/30 Full Synthetic Post by ThumperPaul on 01/31/24 at 05:19:03 584A5F5C4451515E300 wrote:
Fair enough! I used a Jawa 350 to commute to work when I was 22... In October - November I often rode in snow or rain. But I kinda had to... Lately I rather picked the car... and by lately I mean the last 15 years. :D Tomorrow is Elefantentreffen though, 700km ride in 2 days, so i better man up![/quote] Definitely. And it’s a great reason to gear-up completely with 3-4 layers! Dig out those fur-lined gloves and boots! Enjoy that ride! |
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