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Message started by och on 02/03/24 at 16:07:39

Title: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/03/24 at 16:07:39

Wanted to take my Savage for a ride today, but it wouldn't start. Turn the key, the lights go on, press the start button and the lights go out but the bike does nothing. No clicking from decomp, no trying from the starter.

The battery is pretty new, I just replaced it around September/October last year. I rode the bike about two weeks ago, through a snow flurry, and they dumped a bunch of salt on the roads. I immediately flushed the bike with water and soap to get the salt out.

Couple of days ago I started the bike for a few minutes, for no particular reason, just to make sure it runs. It started and ran just fine.

When it didnt start this morning, I took my BMW for the ride instead, and put the Savage into the garage and plugged in the trickle charger. Came home, the battery is fully charged, but still no start, not even any kind of clicking.

Any ideas? If it was a bad starter, I should at least get clicking from the decomp system?

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by verslagen1 on 02/03/24 at 21:17:12

the lights went out, are they supposed to? or is it a fuse?

there's also a 3 wire connector under the seat that can come undone.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by Dave on 02/04/24 at 02:11:11

Maybe the clutch safety switch was not a fan of road salt?

You can disconnect the switch and run a jumper wire to bypass it....or use an ohm meter to test the switch. The switch should be open when the clutch lever is not pulled - a closed circuit when the lever is pulled in.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by ThumperPaul on 02/04/24 at 05:05:53

Dave mentioned the clutch safety wire hanging out near the road grime and gunk. I’d check the negative battery cable connection while I was looking around down there too. Doesn’t sound major. Just gotta find it.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/04/24 at 09:24:27

The lights dim or shut off when I press the start button, which leads me to believe the clutch switch is ok.

I almost think its the starter, but I dont hear the decomp clicking. Should it alway click?

Check out the video a friend helped me shoot.

https://youtu.be/wPYkoFHK-3c

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by DragBikeMike on 02/04/24 at 10:19:49

Mine behaves exactly like that. I have an intermittent clutch safety switch. When the switch doesn't make good contact, it behaves exactly like yours. Jumper the switch to test it. Very easy to do since the connectors are readily accessible on the underside of the clutch lever perch.

Your headlight is behaving as expected. There are two sets of contacts in your starter button. When you press the button, one set of contacts opens to turn off the lights, while the other set of contacts closes to power up the starter circuit.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/04/24 at 10:47:19

Thank you Mike. Any chance you can post some photos of which wires to bridge?

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by DragBikeMike on 02/04/24 at 11:25:08

Just unplug this connector and jumper the two wires.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/04/24 at 11:33:38

Thank you, I'll give it a shot tomorrow.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by youzguyz on 02/04/24 at 12:35:50

just curious. Does the tail light stay on when you press the starter?
From what I can see in the wiring diagram, it should. The starter switch kills the headlight, front running lights, and horn... but not the brake light, turn signal or tail light.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/04/24 at 14:13:29

Thank you, I will give it a try tomorrow.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/04/24 at 14:43:53

All of my bikes are stored indoors in a garage and my cafe racer is never ridden in the rain. Last August I washed the bike and took it out for a nice long ride with a friend. After a few hours we stopped for coffee and when I got back to the bike the battery appeared dead - like zero volts dead. I had my friend give me a push and the bike started right up with a classic push/jump start. I got home and again the bike wouldn't start. I assumed it was the starter solenoid acting up and parked the bike until I had an opening on my stand to address the issue.

Two weeks ago I got the bike on the stand. With a fully charged battery and the ignition key in the on position nothing worked...except the tail light. My first thought was corrosion in the ignition switch. I removed, disassembled and cleaned the switch contacts. Sure enough there was corrosion (the bike lived 100 yards from the ocean before I bought it) on the contacts, but upon reassembly the bike displayed the same issue.

I began the process of checking connections and noticed the headlight flickering when parts of the harness were moved. I could get the headlight to remain on, but as soon as I engaged the starter the electronics would once again die and I'd have to start moving the wires to the "sweet spot" to make a connection. I narrowed down the offending wire to the main ground that runs from the battery to the frame. I checked the battery side and all was good. I then checked the frame side and the cable looked good. Touching the wire to the engine it immediately made contact. To confirm this I removed an engine cover bolt and secured the wire lug directly to the engine case - and the bike started right up. I checked continuity of the wire while moving it around to see if there was a break in the wire below the insulation. Seemed good. I decided to just put it all together and that's when I saw the actual problem - the bolt that secured the cable to the frame had a bit of corrosion on the threads that made contact with the wire lug. When I moved the harness around it allowed some movement at the lug that made a slight contact - enough to make the light...er...light, but not enough contact to allow for starting current.

I cleaned the bolt and frame with contact cleaner and a wire brush and put it all together - problem solved. The moral of the long story is: the slightest bit of corrosion in the right (or wrong) place will shut down your bike. Had I not washed the bike the day of this ride, this problem may have never shown...until it was washed at a later date. That little bit of water was just what it needed to create the perfect conditions to become a problem. The problem itself was inevitable.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/04/24 at 14:53:48

Thank you, any chance of posting the location of the main ground bolt where it attaches to the frame? I intend to experiment with it tomorrow, or sometime during the week when I have free time.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by ThumperPaul on 02/04/24 at 16:29:14

https://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1442193109/4

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 02/04/24 at 16:36:46

272B20480 wrote:

Thank you, any chance of posting the location of the main ground bolt where it attaches to the frame? I intend to experiment with it tomorrow, or sometime during the week when I have free time.

Its just forward of the swingarm.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/06/24 at 04:24:04

Before I start messing with the wiring, should the decomp always click when trying to start?

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by ThumperPaul on 02/06/24 at 07:18:02

I do believe that's the case sir.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by verslagen1 on 02/06/24 at 09:46:05

262A21490 wrote:

Before I start messing with the wiring, should the decomp always click when trying to start?

Yes and the fact that it's at least trying to start says the safeties are sorta ok. I say sorta because there maybe an intermittent problem as DBM says.

What I see is you probably have a dead short. And because you don't hear the decomp click I'd start there. Pull the tank, disconnect the decomp solenoid and try to start. Joy?/No Joy?

Then I would pull the decomp/starter controller and bypass the wires from the starter button to the starter relay. A short wire with 1/4" spade connectors on both ends works. I can only give you a hint witch connectors to jump, 1 of the centers comes from the starter button and will go to 12v when pushed, then opposite side, 1 off center goes to the relay, you probably can tell which by color. ;D good luck

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by DragBikeMike on 02/06/24 at 11:24:06

This simple diagram shows how the juice gets from the battery to the starter relay. I would do the very easiest check first. Pull the plug out of the clutch switch and jumper y/g to y/g. If it cranks you have found your problem. Be careful, with that switch jumpered the thing will crank even if the clutch is engaged.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/06/24 at 18:12:21

Thank you guys, Probably wont have time to deal with it this week, too much work.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/08/24 at 15:07:56

One more dumb question, for when I finally get the time to deal with the bike. If I were to use a voltmeter, and put the black tip against somewhere on the frame, and the red tip to the wire going to the starter - I should not see voltage until I press the start button, but when I press the start button I should get nominal 12 volts?

If I dont get any voltage after pressing the start button, it means something is broken in the circuit, and if there is 12 volts its the starter?

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by ThumperPaul on 02/08/24 at 16:16:40

I think that would work. Your test is basically making sure power is getting past the starter solenoid. A solenoid can click but it may not be closing the circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2rLRyIoYKQ

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/09/24 at 08:59:42

So everything just got worse. I went out this morning with a voltmeter to test the starter, but the second i pressed the start button, the bike cranked and started as it normally would. Runs fine. Last time I tried to start it the weather was cold and crispy, today its warm and damp. I guess the moisture is getting somewhere enough to make a contact. Now I'm afraid to ride the bike somewhere as it may not restart if I shut it off.

To make matters even worse, my foot brake pedal is stuck. The lever on the drum moves fine when I pull on it, so its gotta be the cable assembly. I'll order a new cable assembly I guess.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/09/24 at 09:16:23

I must have a lot of corrosion somewhere, I was riding on a nasty day, it was "snowing" - the snow was melting as soon as it hit the ground, but the city dumped so much salt, there were patches of salt bigger than speed bumps, and it was all wet and nasty. By the time I got home, the poor savage was covered with it and now the gremlins are coming out.

https://youtu.be/nUW0NhTS7qI

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by DragBikeMike on 02/09/24 at 09:56:54

You must really wanna ride. I don't know how you can ride in the snow.

Again, my bike has an intermittent problem with the clutch safety switch. It behaves EXACTLY like your video shows. I correct it by playing with the position of the clutch lever until the starter kicks in, so I know it's the clutch switch. It's very simple to diagnose. Just unplug the connector from the switch and place a small jumper between the two wires. The connector has female sockets so it's very easy to jumper. Just make sure you bike is in neutral before you try to start.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/09/24 at 10:49:52

01070874767175450 wrote:

You must really wanna ride. I don't know how you can ride in the snow.

Yeah, riding all year round, but rarely the Savage. Mostly use my K1600 and SMC-R 690. Wanted to ride the Savage last weekend, was going to join a group of older Harley riders, but it didn't start. I'm sure I'll get the starting issue figured out, and I already ordered a new rear brake cable.

http://https://i.imgur.com/2Izw5kf.jpeg

http://https://i.imgur.com/oL2iC84.jpeg

http://https://i.imgur.com/hWG0Swj.jpeg

http://https://i.imgur.com/tLKMW6K.jpeg

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/17/24 at 13:01:10

Thanks everyone who helped me. It is the clutch switch - went to start the bike this morning, no go. Terminated the switch, started right up. Removed the termination wire, no start.

I guess I will just permanently terminate the switch. My other two bikes start without the clutch pulled in as long as they are in neutral.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by ThumperPaul on 02/17/24 at 15:12:51

Glad you found the issue. Mike will know, but can you clean it up?

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by DragBikeMike on 02/19/24 at 02:21:46

Congrats. Glad you got her crankin.

Yes, you can disassemble the switch and clean up the contacts. It's delicate work (sort of like watch repair). I've managed to get about 15K more miles out of it, but it's starting to go bad again. I always carry a jumper with me.

It has a slider.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by DragBikeMike on 02/19/24 at 02:23:28

And a set of contacts. They look like this when it's inoperative.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by Dave on 02/19/24 at 04:37:57

I rock it old school - I have removed my clutch and kick stand safety switches to improve the chances of me making it home every ride without an electrical gremlin stranding me far from home!

I learned to ride before motorcycles had safety switches, and my starting routine includes safe practices. I get on the bike and lift the kick stand, turn on the fuel and key and look for the neutral light, set the choke, grab the clutch and hit the starter button. The process has been the same for the last 56 years or so.....although for the first 45 years it involved using a kick starter! (Some bikes don't allow you to kick start with the clutch lever pulled in.......I rock them back and forth to confirm the transmission is in neutral before stepping on the kick stater). You should also have the motorcycle pointed in a direction that allows you to ride off if something goes wrong and the bike moves forward when it starts.

You can ride a motorcycle safely without safety switches - if you are attentive to the process. Safety switches no doubt help the distracted to keep from getting hurt and are definitely beneficial - however you can do without them if you are careful.

(PS) If you let somebody ride your bike.......let them know there are no safety switches!

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 02/19/24 at 12:42:49

Yeah, I'm not too concerned about the safety switches, I have only been riding since 2016, but I've developed a habit of safely starting the bike. When I first started out riding, and the S40 is my first bike, I used to make mistakes such as trying to start in gear with the kickstand down, etc - and the safety switched definitely prevented a few booboos.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by ohiomoto on 02/19/24 at 17:29:02

Having a kickstand hit the pavement while riding might make you think twice about disabling the safety switch. I did it once, it was like a sucker punch....sudden and violent!

That said, I am not overly concerned with the safety switches either. Maybe the neutral switch but mostly for the indicator light.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 03/01/24 at 07:35:49

LOL, the saga continues, turns out it wasn't the clutch swing after all. I wanted to ride the bike to work this morning, I got out, put my gear on, my helmet, go to start - nothing. Same exact behavior as before, the lights dim, but no cranking. I gave the starter a few taps, still nothing. Then all of a sudden I try one more time and it starts normally.

I rode it to work, and I hope when I'm ready to leave it will start to get me home.

I imagine it can't be a problem with the switch, otherwise the lights would not dim when I press the button?

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by Serowbot on 03/01/24 at 08:20:14

I had a very unusual problem about 5 years ago
Intermittent starting
It turned out that the plastic starter button on the handlebar had rotted a bit and flaked off a chip of plastic that would occasionally jam the button a hair away from the contact and then no start
Took me ages to find it

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 03/01/24 at 08:25:40

3B2D3A273F2A273C480 wrote:

Yeah, but that would cause no response from the bike, mine dims the lights when I press the button. I will do more tests with the voltmeter to determine if the starter is getting power.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by Dave on 03/01/24 at 09:16:21

Before you blow off the clutch safety being the culprit - bypass it and confirm that is not the problem. Sticking a jumper wire between the terminals is probably the easiest thing you can try when looking for the culprit.

Your light may be dimming as the starter button is energizing some circuits prior to reaching the starter relay.

I seem to remember someone claiming the 2004 and later bikes turn the headlight off when the starter button is pushed - but I don't see how that happens when I took a brief look at the wiring diagram. (I am not sure trying it on my 2007 will tell us anything, as all the safety switches and decompression relay have been removed).

Making jumper wires for the clutch and kickstand safety switches and throwing it in your tool bag may allow you to solve your issue and get home if you are ever out on the road and one of the switches fails.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by Surviving Philly on 03/01/24 at 09:36:12

When you hit the starter button, connection is interrupted between power to the lights from the main orange power line.

This is the modified wiring diagram I made for my build -- you can see the connections on it her. This is a 2013.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 03/01/24 at 10:45:30

I already have the clutch switch permanently bypassed - i cut and soldered the two wires together.

I'll put a volt meter onto the starter leads next time and see if its getting power when I press the start button.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by RK-tek on 03/03/24 at 14:11:39

Do you use the kill switch to shut the bike off or just the key? It could be the kill switch not making full contact because of wear or corrosion.
I rode my bike the other day for the first time this season and stopped at a friends house. Went to leave and had no start. It was dark and I didn’t want to be stuck away from home with a broken bike with 10 non-mechanically inclined drunk people. After inspecting the starter relay and some fuses, I realized I’d left the kill switch off. Flipped the switch and she started right up. I was mostly angry at myself. Been riding 30 years and sometimes the little things still get you.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/03/24 at 14:50:31

667F1940515F340 wrote:

Maybe your incident was a sign not to drink and ride.

Title: Re: No starting, no clicking, no cranking.
Post by och on 04/16/24 at 19:14:48

So turns out its the ignition switch afterall. If I press the button real hard and sort of wiggle it around, the bike will start. Weird that the lights dim even on a soft press, but starter wont engage until I push it so hard my thumb turns blue.

I guess I'll take it apart and clean it real well.