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Message started by Björn Meier on 05/05/24 at 01:47:21

Title: Replacing / Modding you Camchain
Post by Björn Meier on 05/05/24 at 01:47:21

Hi All

My sons bike had a terrible sound - so we looked inside and discovered the tensioner was 23mm out only a miracle it had not dropped out !!

I considered a US mod like u guys do it - or a German mod. - However the chain seemed extremely loose.

So I started reading the guides on this site and youtubing ect - I have never had a bike opened up like that before.

But first time you do this It is really time consuming , we had both the Clymer and the workshopmanual and still there are small things not described.

Anyway - I was blown away over how much difference the NEW guide/tensioner (12811-24B00) made.

The old one (30.000 miles) was cracked and had lost its original shape - the new one will tension the chain almost 3-5 millimeter more in all its length.

Our old chain was actually just within specs.

But after mounting the new chainguide and new camchain -
the chain-tensioner went from 23mm to 8mm ..

So just a tip maybe try changing this chain guide and put in your old tensioner and see - before opening the headcover and changing the camchain - its a 5 min job vs hours :-D

As you can see on the photo the old "guide" is on top and have both ends aligned with a bolt.

Title: Re: Replacing / Modding you Camchain
Post by ThumperPaul on 05/05/24 at 05:48:06

It makes me wonder how many millimeters you could gain back on the cam chain tensioner is you only replaced the front guide. Or will it just force a bigger banana bow in the rear guide and accomplish nothing (or extremely little).

On the bright side, you’re good to go for many miles with all the new parts (chain, tensioner, guide). Happy Trails!

Title: Re: Replacing / Modding you Camchain
Post by 04Savage04 on 05/05/24 at 07:28:17

The front guide is that easy to change?

Title: Re: Replacing / Modding you Camchain
Post by Dave on 05/05/24 at 07:55:06

He said "front" guide - but the photo he attached is the rear guide. :-?

Title: Re: Replacing / Modding you Camchain
Post by verslagen1 on 05/05/24 at 09:20:57

I think that's the rear guide too, he shows the top pivot point, but the bottom has a radius to it and is attached to the chain tensioner. Notice the cracks in the plastic? 1 owner said the plastic came off and clogged his oil pump pickup. While that's an extreme, don't discount it.

The front guide is the flat one and can only be accessed by removing the head.

Yes, the rear guide can wear. But it's only a 5 minute job if you've already have the clutch and primary gear off. And sometimes the castings of the head and cylinder are mismatched making it difficult to get the guide out or back in. And it will take shear determination to get the pivot bolt back in.

As far as the old guide flattening vs. the new guide... no matter what you do, you still have a guide that's x long. The only real change is where the radius at the end is, that may affect the angle of the tensioner and cause it to be extended further, but I think the wear in the plastic guide will have a larger effect.

Replacing the rear guide will change the tensioner extension, but going from 23mm to 8 is probably due to an extreme amount of tension in the chain vs. the minimal amount due to installation. Thermal growth/ contraction puts an extreme amount of tension in the chain that's very difficult to duplicate by prying into place.

You'll need to check again after awhile.

Title: Re: Replacing / Modding you Camchain
Post by Björn Meier on 05/05/24 at 09:45:38

754E4354454952544F474A55260 wrote:

He said "front" guide - but the photo he attached is the rear guide. :-?

Sorry mistake in my first post its not the "front" guide its the tensioner guide (12811-24B00) ... its only one bolt to remove.

The front one you have to remove the head.

Title: Re: Replacing / Modding you Camchain
Post by Björn Meier on 05/05/24 at 09:51:27

16127547504741431612260 wrote:
The front guide is that easy to change?

Sorry my mistake it was the "banana guide" we changed the other one looked fine with no wear or crack ect :-D

Title: Re: Replacing / Modding you Camchain
Post by Surviving Philly on 05/05/24 at 10:15:31

Vers,

If you don't mind clarifying some points for me about this --

Is it true that typically it's not chain wear that puts the stock tensioner at Risk of detachment, but actually guide slack? If true, which guide is typically the offending culprit?

I've been using your modified tensioner for a min now, on the second hole around half-way extended. My chain isn't touching but it does appear to have about a half inch (if memory serves) of clearance.

I'm wondering what what point it would make sense to start thinking about guide replacement/ checking chain stretch. I'm assuming the motor would let me know when something is up and needs attention based on sound/performance.

Title: Re: Replacing / Modding you Camchain
Post by verslagen1 on 05/05/24 at 11:01:48

7342564F4D4C4F424D230 wrote:

Is it true that typically it's not chain wear that puts the stock tensioner at Risk of detachment, but actually guide slack? If true, which guide is typically the offending culprit?

I'd have to say no, but it can be both. The rear guide can wear/deform and is replaceable.
You'll have to inspect it and decide for yourself.

Quote:

I've been using your modified tensioner for a min now, on the second hole around half-way extended. My chain isn't touching but it does appear to have about a half inch (if memory serves) of clearance.

I'm wondering what what point it would make sense to start thinking about guide replacement/ checking chain stretch. I'm assuming the motor would let me know when something is up and needs attention based on sound/performance.

This a hard question as what will the next issue be?
I don't think the verslavy tensioner will allow the chain to stretch enough for the chain to start rubbing against itself. The pin should hit the slot by then and I don't know how long it'll go after that.

My personal preference would be to double the mileage when you 1st replaced the stock tensioner and replace the chain at that point. Assuming that ride length hasn't changed.

The only other issue is chain wear (not stretch). Sooner or later links will bind or not rotate properly and you should replace regardless of stretch.

Title: Re: Replacing / Modding you Camchain
Post by 04Savage04 on 05/05/24 at 11:43:20

So I assume you simply pull the cam adjuster off, remove the bolt in the side of the head and slide the rear guide out.

Title: Re: Replacing / Modding you Camchain
Post by verslagen1 on 05/05/24 at 13:12:57

66620537203731336662560 wrote:

So I assume you simply pull the cam adjuster off, remove the bolt in the side of the head and slide the rear guide out.

Let me be clear... pulling the guide straight down ain't gonna happen unless...

Quote:

But it's only a 5 minute job if you've already have the clutch and primary gear off. And sometimes the castings of the head and cylinder are mismatched making it difficult to get the guide out or back in. And it will take shear determination to get the pivot bolt back in.