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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1719780806 Message started by HotinTopeka888 on 06/30/24 at 13:53:26 |
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Title: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by HotinTopeka888 on 06/30/24 at 13:53:26 Hi guys! Im new, but Ive been surfing threads looking for answers, and I can tell that this is a great community. Ya should be proud. But I can't be a good part if I can't even ride my bike! I have this exact same issue: https://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1228436105 I can see it's a rare one and I'm hoping it's not a big one. I posted a thread here expressing my concerns not too long ago, but work and life got in the way. This time I'm getting to work on my bike and I'll try to keep everyone updated. If Im lucky and can find a fix, then maybe this will be the place online with the solution for people like me OK here goes: The Bike 2005 Black Suzuki Savage / LS650 / Boulevard S40 Mileage 1,350 mi The Problem The Bike starts and runs no problem. It revs with each pull of thd throttle. But it cannot move/accelerate at any gear. It acts as though it were neutral on any gear. Details About the Problem - The bike shifts from gear to gear fine. - It does not seem like there is any more or less freeplay on the clutch cable. The cable is fully connected - The problem came on suddenly, not gradually. - The problem did not come with the obvious terrible smell of a burnt clutch, or at least the smell did not last long enough for me to notice. - No abundance of smoke noticed when problem occured. No black smoke. - What immediately preceded the problem was a snap (like a small backfire) - I hear NO unusual noises up to this day. No clunking, no rattling, no pops/no snaps - I smell NO unusual smells up to this day - The bike does NOT seem to operate differently. No tight or loose clutch, throttle, brakes Details about Bike - I bought the bike in April 2024 for $1.5k At the time it had only 900 miles. I was a little concerned about lack of use. - I did the basic surface inspection and all seemed A-OK. No funny smells, noises, all was intact - Had a new working Diehard Gold battery that is currently being charged/naintained. Was missing the chrome cover to the battery box though... - Was able to ride it on a 150 mile trip back home! (Avoided highways) -Purchased to make a daily 60 mi round-trip commute. Worked for a week or so. I racked up about 500 miles... then the problem happened on the road - I'm admittedly an inexperienced rider. Probably made excessive use of the clutch for comfort in the friction zone within the town i live in, but I honestly don't think I was going too crazy... Stupidly thought I could coast down hills with clutch pulled all the way down. Got tired of the constant thumping on long rides I guess. Questions - Biggest noticeable problem when I bought it was that the tail light was hanging by a wire I rode back home in bad rain, did I damage the electical or any other parts?? It seems that the most likely culprits are clutch OR transmission, with the drive shaft in particular. Is it likely for the drive shaft to be stripped in just 1350 miles of use? Shouldn't a transmission issue of this effect come with tell-tale signs like unusual metal noises, smoke, smells? Shouldn't a clutch issue change the way a bike feels, operates, switches gears? When I look at the clutch today what should I look for to see if it's bad or good? Updates 1 I've gotten to work on my bike since yesterday. I plan on doing full maintenance and basic checkup as I make my way to the clutch. 1. Removed Battery. Is currently being charged/maintained 2. Took off seat. Checked fuses. Both 20A and 25A are fine 3. Drained gas/removed gas tank. I'm considering replacing the petcock/vacuum hose with a Yamaha Raptor 660 petcock and cap. Today I plan on 1) replacing the spark plug, 2) removing the exhaust system so I can get to the clutch case, and 3) draining the oil. I plan to update thread and show a picture whenever I get to see what my clutch looks like. Long post. Sincerest thanks to anyone who chooses to get through it all and help. |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by ThumperPaul on 06/30/24 at 16:29:38 Summary: Starts, runs, goes into gear - but no go.... Are you sure it's going into gear? And you're sure you can move it through all 5 gears? Does it stall out when you put it in gear and release the clutch? I'd guess the clutch is failing to disengage. Or the clutch plates are seized. When it quit on you while riding, what were you doing when it decides to stop moving? Sitting at a red light? Hauling a$$? Testing the clutch friction zone on an uphill incline? Power shifing from 1st to 2nd? Just cruising along like a grandpa minding your own business? Can you be more specific about the "constant thumping" you hear when coasting downhill without pulling the clutch? There shouldn't be any thumping when coasting/engine braking down a hill without the clutch pulled. Just a smooth nice sounding "growl" of the engine slowing. Have you drained the oil to see what it looks like? Correct amount? Reading the post you shared from 2008, it ended without a happy ending or resolution. (I hate when stories end that way.) Just Verslagen suggesting to look at the front drive pulley. Since you were hearing a thumping while coasting downhill without the clutch pulled, that might have been the front pulley throwing a hissy fit. It's possible the nut was never tighten properly in the first place, or somebody fiddled with it over the last 19 years. Only 3 bolts holding the pulley cover in place (don't lose the spacers or rubber grommets, they like to roll off to never-never land in the abyss of the garage). Pop it off and check the pulley. Verslanger was betting dollars to donuts on this one!! That's a good bet even if a donut costs more than a dollar these days. Riding the clutch in the friction zone can burn up the clutch pretty quick. I doubt its the transmission (pretty bullet-proof until it meets a really souped up motor). You don't hear about too many transmission issues on these bikes especially at low miles. |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by Surviving Philly on 06/30/24 at 18:25:02 I'd bet money on you having a broken cam lobe on the clutch actuating arm, you should be able to tell when you open it up. If this is your first time removing the clutch cover get a cardboard box, drill 11-13 ( can't remember how many bolts) into it and put all the bots from the cover in sequence so you can remember which ones go where when you put it back together. Get a replacement gasket just in case. When you put the cover back on make sure the release arm is clearing the case. It needs to be pointing slightly upward or it can get jammed against the case. Good luck |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by verslagen1 on 06/30/24 at 19:30:50 a broken cam would give zero clutch pull, doubt that is the problem as you said it was normal. electrical or water damage shouldn't be a problem. a seized clutch wouldn't allow you to put it into gear w/out lurching you forward and getting it into 2nd is a beotch. (a friend told me) drive pulley is a possibility but at 1300 miles I hope not, it would a factory issue as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't do any work on the bike until you've isolated the problem. It's better to work on 1 problem at a time and working on it introduces new possibilities. Quote:
Are you referring to the exhaust note? or something else? 'I don't wanna work, just bang on the drum all day' |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by zevenenergie on 07/01/24 at 01:01:13 I think the crankshaft is broken just at the bearing and the clutch is no longer driven. I find it annoying for the topic starter, so I'm not going to be triumphant about the correct answer, but you can congratulate me via PM on my genius 8-) |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by ThumperPaul on 07/01/24 at 04:52:38 'I don't wanna work, just bang on the drum all day' Ever since I was a tiny boy I don't want no candy I don't need no toy I took a stick and an old coffee can I bang on that thing 'til I got Blisters on my hand because 8-) ;D |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by badwolf on 07/01/24 at 18:48:24 Wow, you are really grasping at anything you can think of. If the crank was broke the engine would NOT run. To drive the cam gear and the cam the crank must be turning, along with the primary gear. You are going to have to pull the clutch cover (right side case) to see what the issue is. Not the answer you wanted, but the reality. Don`t mix up the bolts, there are different sizes, and the bolts to take the pipe guard off are thru bolts, no studs. You will have to hold it on the other side, not a problem if you have 5 foot arms with 2 elbows each, otherwise you can jam the wrench. Good Luck! |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by ThumperPaul on 07/04/24 at 09:02:51 696B7866787A626B63780A0 wrote:
It’s not that bad loosening the 2 lower motor mount bolts. Lol. Reach under the motor with your right hand and hold the bolt with an open-end wrench while you bust the nuts loose with a ratchet in your left hand (17mm if I remember right). It is a bit of a contortion exercise! It gives you a chance to lay down on the garage floor and get intimate with your bike! :-? ;D |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by HotinTopeka888 on 07/05/24 at 06:02:32 Updates 2: I'm back after a few days. I'll be hard at work on it this weekend if there's anything else I can do. I do not know how to post multiple pictures in this post, so I had to attach them all as one picture below. I hope the details aren't too hard to see. 1. So far I exposed most everything on the bike save for the motor and the carburetor. I opened up the clutch case yesterday and I I don't think I found anything wrong with the parts inside. The clutch cable was well secured to the connector with an ideal amount of play. Inside, there was no gunk, stray metal parts or bad smell. The plates, springs and all were intact. The cam chain tensioner, though I am open to replacing it, I believe is undamaged. Attached below are two pictures of the ntact clutch I was almost hoping I would find a problem in there. Now I'm at a loss. I appreciate your comments . I'm reviewing them now. Side Questions: 1. I am concerned about a couple things concerning the clutch case. The ease with which the cover came off suggested to me that the previous owner might have done work on it, so I compared the bolts and sealing washers with the order or bolts/washers on another savage's. The washers dont seem to line up perfectly the same way. Maybe the order is different between different models. Are the sealing washers for my 2005 savage in the right place? Attached below is a picture of the bolts/washers in order: I circled the bolts with washers on them and the arrow is pointing to the direction of where the handlebars would be. If everything is right, I'd be honored if you were to use this picture to help anything who lost track of the nut and washer order. 2.I left the clutch case open since yesterday night. My back was aching after all the work and I wasn't thinking of how this might have been unwise. Do I have to soak the parts in oil or something before I put everything back together again? I do have a spare gasket btw. |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by HotinTopeka888 on 07/05/24 at 06:24:54 4E5142515A515A5146535D51340 wrote:
Brother if you could help solve this problem, I'm sure you'd have helped many others as well. You would deserve all the public credit I could give you lmao. Quote:
Surviving Philly, is that what it looks like judging from the pictures I provided? My uneducated eye tells me everything is fine. I'll do my research now though asap. To those responding about my "thumping" comment. No it's wasn't thumping in any way more than anyone should expect. I was just being a big baby. I saw a YouTube video of a guy insisting that holding the clutch completely down on slopes didn't hurt the bike. I viewed that as "coasting". My mistake.. I reattached the picture of my clutch case cover's bolts and sealing washers in order. It does not seem to show in the other post I attached it in. |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by Surviving Philly on 07/05/24 at 07:16:55 I believe those bolts w/ washers are in the correct locations. See this image as a reference. |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by Surviving Philly on 07/05/24 at 07:17:34 Also, I was referring to this -- does this look broken on yours? |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by ThumperPaul on 07/05/24 at 12:02:10 The setup of the clutch release arm and cam and other parts look beautifully assembled in the cyclepedia photo. But to really inspect it, you have to disassemble the releaas arm from the cam and make sure each of those parts aren't "wollered out" or rounded off. Here's a pic of an "okay" (not great) shaft. It still has kinda sharp edges and isn't rounded off. |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by ThumperPaul on 07/05/24 at 12:10:06 You will have to post 1 pic per post. You can't see any details with the way you posted it. You will have to disassemble the clutch to inspect the components. The 50,000 foot view rarely reveals anything unless it totally exploded. The cam chain tensioner doesn't appear to have the plunger extending too far (yet). But, the photo is hard to see. You'll want to measure it. If the plunger is extended 17mm or more, you'll want to get a Versy CCT and install it on the 2nd hole. Here's a pick of mine before I replaced with the Versy CCT. |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by ThumperPaul on 07/05/24 at 12:16:08 And the Versy CCT installed on the 2nd hole. The plunger is about as far in as it can go. At 17mm or more, you can use the 2nd hole. If it's less than 17mm extended, you'd meed to use the first hole. You might be able to use the 2nd hole at 16-17mm, but it's gunna be real close... I wouldn't worry about your CCT right now. Figure out your "no move" problem first. |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by HotinTopeka888 on 07/05/24 at 13:06:20 7D4C58414342414C432D0 wrote:
Thanks for the picture of the bolts. It put that concern to rest. I did a little reading... emphasis on little. You're pointing to the components of the clutch release arm right? Interesting first assumption. It would have explained the snapping sound and it would have been a great affordable ending to this story. But... unfortunately the mystery seems to go on. The arm looks to be fully intact and moves as id expect whenever i press down on the release cam. |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by HotinTopeka888 on 07/05/24 at 13:13:12 714D504855405775445049250 wrote:
Sure thing. |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by HotinTopeka888 on 07/05/24 at 13:26:54 Hopefully the images are good. Apparently the originals were too large. Do you think it might be the push rod or something? Ill look into opening he clutch basket and disassembling the arm. I am also wondering about other possibilities though. Even if some internals are a bit worn, would this drastic scenario of 0 acceleration be likely if they look the way my images show? |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by ThumperPaul on 07/05/24 at 13:44:40 The pics are much better. I don't see anything terrible. Someone with more experience than me will need to chime in about what tests you might be able to perform. My diagnostic experience is limited. Sorry, wish I could be more helpul. |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by HotinTopeka888 on 07/05/24 at 13:55:45 I appreciate the honest response, but yea now I'm getting a little worried about my situation. As far as the CCT is concerned, I know it's not the best method of measurement, but the space between my 17 mm wrench tells me I have a little bit of time. I'll replace it with the Verslavy if this repair doesn't cost me an arm and a leg. Is it named for the moderator here?... very cool |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by Surviving Philly on 07/05/24 at 16:30:52 Have you taken a look at the final drive? Pulling the belt guard/ pulley guard is easy enough I think you may want to check out the situation over there. From what little one is able to observe from the pictures of your clutch I'm not seeing anything unusual. |
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Title: Re: Bike Starts and Runs Fine. But WONT move... Post by badwolf on 07/05/24 at 18:45:27 With the bike in gear, grab the clutch basket assy. and turn. The drive pulley should try to turn, if the wheel is on the ground it should try to move the bike. If the clutch basket just spins, try a different gear. If none of the gears are passing movement thru the trany,,,,, well keep taking more apart. Remember the clutch pushrod disengauges the clutch. Without it being pushed in the clutch will be solid. |
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