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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Removing the wheels for new tires question… /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1719936877 Message started by transam4life on 07/02/24 at 09:14:37 |
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Title: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/02/24 at 09:14:37 Local tire shops charge $75 per tire to install a tire if the wheel is on the motorcycle, but $30 if I bring in the wheel myself. https://ibb.co/7v2vkkL I’ve seen all different kind of jacking options, but never see any mention of using stands like above. Would those work? |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by Surviving Philly on 07/02/24 at 09:53:19 Orion Motor Tech Motorcycle Lift... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FZWR9SX?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share I use this -- although it looks like the price literally tripped since I bought it -- I just find it more versatile than the ones you listed and allows for more clearance off th ground. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by Dave on 07/02/24 at 14:15:53 Some guys just use ratchet straps to the handlebars and a strong ceiling beam - and lift the bike up (another fellow used a step ladder). You could also do this with the rear of the bike. You might want to do one end at a time so you have the other wheel on the ground. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/02/24 at 16:52:23 I use one like this scissor lift. It's similar to the one Philly shared but a little wider and more stable (it has some extender "feet"). The U-shaped alternate supports shown in the photo are extra and easily removed/adjusted (I don't use them on the Savage; too awkward). https://www.ebay.com/itm/272049179671 I also use ratchet strapes secured to large eye hooks in the garage ceiling joists. The ratchet strapes are just in case the jack or bike decices to shift and move (which they do when you start wrenching on something pretty hard - like the axles). I don't try to lift with the ratchet straps; just stabilize. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by verslagen1 on 07/02/24 at 22:16:55 a pair of jack stands under the front foot pegs works very well for the front. and a floor jack under the muffler support works for the rear. But I wouldn't use them both at the same time. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/03/24 at 07:12:52 Thanks for all the suggestions. While I will need new tires in the near future, the main concern I have right now is my front tire is flat. I sprayed the whole tire and wheel with soapy water and it seems like it’s leaking air from the wheel nipple. How would something like that even happen? I’m thinking whatever punctured the tire didn’t stay in the tire or the tube for some sort of pinch flat. With that said…how do I take the front wheel off? Is this video correct? Do I need to remove the brake caliper? https://youtu.be/8uCrTF5fvzk?si=3AaK-QJtsRGqaBcD |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by Surviving Philly on 07/03/24 at 07:19:57 Yes to removing the caliper, but it's not a big deal. For the wheel itself the RH side has a pinch bolt you loosen/remove them remove the axle. Definitely pick up a clymer manual |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/03/24 at 17:45:17 What's a "wheel nipple"? Do you mean the valve stem? The area on the inner tube where the valve stem attaches to it is prone to dry rot. Dry rot happens on the inside of tires and inner tubes as much as it does where you can see it on the outside. And that pinch bolt on the fork can be a booger to get out. I used some PB Blaster to help free it. But it has to come out before you remove the axle. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/03/24 at 21:50:17 Sorry by wheel nipple I meant spoke nipple. It’s not the valve itself leaking, but the nipples next to the valve. What you’re saying about dry rot near the valve makes sense. The tubes are over 7 years old now. Luckily I live in an area with no rust, so hopefully the pin can bolt will be easy to get off, but thanks for the heads up! |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/04/24 at 05:18:52 Good luck. It’s not that bad. Do 1 at a time like Verslagen suggested. No matter how you lift the bike and get it on some kind of stand, it gets very unstable with both wheels off the ground. That’s when I decided to add some ratchet straps hanging from the ceiling joists. I think someone used Loctite on my pinch bolt. It wasn’t rust. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/04/24 at 12:33:56 I tried the method of putting jack stands under the front foot pegs, but feel like they have some flex to them so it feels unstable. I’m not sure if I should buy wheel stands like I linked in my original post or get some sort of scissor/motorcycle lift. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by verslagen1 on 07/04/24 at 12:57:48 I put the right 1 under the mount for the footpeg and the left 1 under the support tube for the upper thru bolt (between the frame and engine) and it feels very stable. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/04/24 at 13:00:57 Yeah I think i misunderstood. I was trying to put them on the actual rubber foot peg and I feel like they were just flexing inwards. I will try again tomorrow like how you described it. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by Dave on 07/04/24 at 15:06:42 And you can attach tie downs to the handlebars and back to the passenger pegs (or similar location) to keep the forks from flopping around while you work. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/04/24 at 18:02:11 What do you guys recommend for new tires in 2024? I currently have the D404 in the front and the K555 in the rear. I’ve used that setup for my last 2 sets. I’m not sure on the exact mileage, but the K555 has always worn out quick a bit quicker (then again it’s at the rear). I’m at 25k miles and this will be my 4th set of tires so I’ve averaging just over 8k between the IRC and 2 Dunlop sets. Should I go with the same D404/K555 setup? I’m not really interested in the 140/90/15 rear as it seems too big, but would consider 130/90/15 which opens up other options. I could do D404 front and rear I hear a lot of good things on the Shinko 230 Tourmaster I could do the budget Shinko 712 I see Kenda K671 or K656 for very cheap on Amazon Also…what tubes do you guys run. I’ve always used the IRC standard tube. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by Surviving Philly on 07/04/24 at 20:00:04 I just picked up some shinko 230s. Haven't installed yet but I can tell you right away these things are SOFT. I'm pretty excited to get them on |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by Dave on 07/04/24 at 20:14:25 595F4C435E4C401941444B482D0 wrote:
How many miles do you ride in a year? What kind of weather conditions. The kind of mileage varies greatly with the kind of roads you ride and the temperatures. Fifty degree days are far easier on a tire than a 90 degree day. Pavement can be smooth asphalt or very aggressive chip seal - the roads in Arkansas are really hard on tires as the aggregate is small and sharp! Lower cost or performance tires will generally last 6 - 8,000 miles - if it takes you 5 years to rack up those kind of miles then get the Shinko Tourmaster. If you ride 20,000 miles in 5 years - get the Michelin Commander. They are expensive - but not as expensive as 3 sets of cheaper tires. The 130/90-15 tire is a nice fit for the bike. Plenty of width for a 30HP bike! (The 60 HP bikes in the 70's had 110/90 rear tires and can be ridden faster than the Savage). |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/04/24 at 23:00:37 Well I have a 2008 model year and I have 25k miles…so I’ve been averaging 2k a year. I wish I could ride more, but always so busy. I live in the desert so hot temperatures and no rain are common. My current set is manufactured March of 2017 so it’s over 7 years old…which is probably even more considering how the desert is to rubber. I could prob push them another 1k miles or so, but considering the age it’s prob not a good idea. Plus the front tube is flat so I’m going to pay for labor I might as well swap the tire out. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by Dave on 07/05/24 at 03:41:05 I believe the wet weather traction is what suffers first as a tire ages - that seems to happen with my car tires as well. As my car tires age I notice they will start to spin easier when I leave a stop on wet pavement. My car is front wheel drive and stick shift......and the tires get slippery and need to be replaced before I actually wear off all the tread. One of the cycle magazines tested new tires that were beyond the recommended 5 year age - and they used a race track to record lap times with the aged tires. They determined that they were still good tires - I believe they should have tested the traction in the wet prior to declaring the tires were still good! |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/05/24 at 04:18:31 Everything Dave said! I’m liking the Shinko 230 Tour Master tires that Dave recommended. I wanted cheap and sticky, and they do that well. I haven’t had them very long, so I can’t speak to mileage and longevity. I’ll probably only put 2-3k miles per year on them. Houston roads are definitely hot and most of the roads I ride are concrete or fairly smooth asphalt. I found Motosport had the best online price for the Shinko after comparing total cost (with and without fees of some sellers). They have a “combo price” on front/rear. But shop around - you might be able to save $5-$10 on the set. https://www.motosport.com/shinko-230-tour-master-tire-combo |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by Tocsik on 07/06/24 at 06:36:59 I'm also running the Tourmaster 230's with a 130/90 rear. Good price and good tread. I will say these track in grooves a lot more than the Michelin Commander II's I had on previously. I took both tires off at the same time but used a poor man's MC jack that was really long. I put eye bolts on and used straps to hold the bike stable. I've done that both times I've put new tires on. My version is on the bottom of the first page in this thread: https://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1100379341 |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/06/24 at 07:48:56 I give up! I just want the wheel hub off this thing. Tire is 23 years old! The inner tube was still holding air somehow. Something called a Chang Shin Tire (or something like that). About to whip out the hacksaw, chainsaw, reciprocating saw, cutoff wheel, and plunge cutter! Maybe finish up with some tin snips. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/06/24 at 07:56:23 Hey, I got it! What a pain in the A$$! |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/06/24 at 08:02:33 I guess I can recommend the IRC inner tubes! How this thing is still alive is a miracle! :o |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/06/24 at 08:03:33 IRC Rocks! |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by Dave on 07/06/24 at 15:01:31 Just a bit of trivia. IRC is short for: Inoue Rubber Company. In the old days they put INOUE on the tire - rather than IRC. https://ircbike.com/pages/about |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/06/24 at 15:39:57 GMC! GET MY COFFEE! |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/06/24 at 20:57:44 https://ibb.co/yQqSbNk The jack stand trick on the foot pegs worked great for removing the front tire. My tube was flat…the tech said that the rim strip had gone bad from age and the spoke nipples wore a hole in the tube. It was a IRC tube and Kenda rim strip. I was just going to replace the tube and rim strip at first, but the tire was 7 years old, so I replaced the tire as well. I ended up going with the D404, I figured don’t fix what ain’t broken. Now I have to work on the rear…I think I’m going to get a Dunlop K555 again. So is the easiest way to lift the rear just using a floor jack on the rear frame support? |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/07/24 at 05:28:07 Yes, the flat underside of the muffler mount bracket works good. It’s like it was designed as a jack location. Secure the handlebar/front forks with something because when you lift the rear the weight balance will shift to the front and the handlebar/forks will need to be steady — especially when you bust that axle nut/bolt free and reinstalling. You don’t want to throw the bike on the ground when you’re torque-ing around back there. Note: You will curse the little screw holding the lower and upper belt guards together. Be prepared to drop a few F-bombs! You have to be able to rotate the upper belt guard forward and out of the way. And if you have the stock license plate bracket and license plate on it, remove the license plate (you can leave the bracket on). You’ll want every available inch possible when removing the wheel from the swing arm. If you don’t remove it first, you’ll see what I mean when you get there! ;) Take pictures as you go to help remember exactly where things are… like belt tension marks, brake adjustment position, and left/right axle spacers. You’ll want to check your belt and brake adjustment positions while you’re down there, but at least you’ll know where they were set before you tore it down (good starting point for reassembly). Ye good ole Dunlop D404s. I liked those on a previous S40 I had. In fact, they’re what I just replaced with the Shinkos on my current bike. I don’t know what kind of miles they had on ‘em, but they weren’t dry rotted after 8 years and still had good tread. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/07/24 at 11:35:44 Thanks all the tips. This might be a silly question, but will a floor jack hold pressure for a day or two without the use of a jack stand? Is the something else I could use under the bike while I’m jacking it up as backup? Also…for the rear tire should I go with the stock size 140/80/15 K555 or do the D404 in the 130/90/15 size? Not sure what the difference is between the K555 and D404… |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by verslagen1 on 07/07/24 at 13:42:22 It's only holding up 200-300 lbs, my jack will and will probably hold it for more than a week. I don't know about yours though, you should test it, put it under a car overnite, still up in the morning you're good to go. The stock IRC's are a narrow tire for their marking and the dunlap is wider tire than IRC at the same width. So the D404 130 will be very close in width. The 90 adds a little height and makes the speedo read closer to the actual speed. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/07/24 at 16:10:37 The K555 costs more than the D404. That's all I know. :o Do the matchy-matchy with the front and put a D404 130/90 on the rear. I like matchy-matchy. Here's the set for $204. I think they want like $160 for just the rear K555. https://www.motosport.com/product/?code=SS-M-G-D-GDN-STREET&key=Dunlop-D404-Tire-Combo&cc=us&variant[DUN004F]=DUN004F-X001-Y001&cc=us&variant[DUN004F]=DUN004F-X001-Y001&utm_source=google&utm_medium=display_remarketing&utm_campaign=Dynamic_Retargeting_Product_Viewers_&_Cart_Abandoners=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-ai0BhDPARIsAB6hmP5lG1ZDv5nwRxUsYXibkU1vK3k3r6VThFp_jipKo7gnPHEGZWKqOC8aAhKREALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&variant[DUN000M]=DUN000M-X001-Y010&variant[DUN000O]=DUN000O-X001-Y001 |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by Dave on 07/08/24 at 04:08:11 0A362B332E3B2C0E3F2B325E0 wrote:
Me too. They folks that build these tires don't recommend mixing tire sets - as the tires can behave differently. I suppose as long as you don't mix bias play and radial it is likely not too serious. The only time I have mixed sets is when I have decided to change tire brands or tire models and still have life left in one tire - I change the worn out tire and as soon as the other one wears out I replace it and am "matching" again. I normally count on wearing out 2 rear tires for the life of 1 front tire - but I did have one new set of tires where the front wore out 1,000 miles sooner than the rear! Mismatched sets often occur when folks are out riding and have a tire failure (or wear one out) and need to replace a tire in a hurry, and the local bike shop doesn't have a matching tire. I don't believe mismatch is often done on purpose. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/08/24 at 09:51:06 I could be wrong but I believe some Yamaha and Honda bike came stock with the D404 in front and the K555 in the rear back in the early 2000s. My understanding is the K555 is suppose to be a more premium tire with better wear so it’s better for the rear with the extra weight. With that I did have 2 questions… 1. Using the floor jack to lift the back works great. Can I use jack stands on the rear foot pegs? I haven’t tried yet, but it looks like it should work. 2. I have 25k miles and while my rear brake shoes prob still have plenty of life left they do squeal quite a bit. I was thinking of using an aftermarket brake shoe in the rear while I had it off. EBC makes 2 kinds…the 606 and 606G. The 606G is grooved so it work better with noise no? |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by verslagen1 on 07/08/24 at 11:39:34 the left side you could, but the right the muffler was in the way. the brake shoes have lots of life so you may not need to change them yet. squeaking is another issue, I find it's caused by dust. the ends of the brake lining are tapered and this tends to cause dust to be trapped between the drum and lining. I modified the forward side to have a sharp edge and bevel it towards the outside so the dust is moved towards the outside and drops out. This stops the squeaking. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/15/24 at 08:03:25 Thanks for the tip on the brake shoes! After doing a bunch of research I decided just to go back to my original D404/K555 combo. I was super tempted to try the Shinko 230 Tourmaster tires, but I guess don’t fix what’s not broken. I was going to match the D404 front and back, but the Dunlop website recommends the D404/K555 combo. https://ibb.co/hRH1Fq6 https://ibb.co/TmdR6p3 https://ibb.co/r6PBH7L |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/15/24 at 08:09:54 https://ibb.co/F8tjqWx That is my current alignment of my rear brake. If I replace the brake shoes how do I know what to change the angle of the red line on the green line spindle? I’m a bit confused as new brake shoes will have more material on them so I assume I need to change the angle. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by verslagen1 on 07/15/24 at 09:19:05 if you put new shoes on, the angle will change due to new shoes. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/15/24 at 11:08:14 That red line is nothing. Don’t use the “crack/split” on the brake lever clamp. Your green line is almost sitting exactly on top of the index mark in the spline shaft. It’s an etched grove/line in the spline/shaft. That’s what you want to see at the beginning of the range indicator with new brake shoes. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/15/24 at 11:57:29 So it looks like my current set of pads has plenty of life left as the green line is just at the beginning of the wear limit range. With that said I was curious to try the EBC shoes. How would I know what angle to reattach the brake lever clamp once I reinstall everything? That’s the part that I’m confused about… |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by Odysseus on 07/15/24 at 12:14:58 4B4D5E514C5E520B5356595A3F0 wrote:
Really? They recommend that? I just went Dunlop 404s :P |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/15/24 at 12:22:56 Replicate your current set-up... Also, it will make more sense when you get the brake anchor off and see the inside. You don't have to remove the brake arm lever from the shaft to change the shoes. Just unscrew the brake adjuster and remove it. That's all you have to disconnect until you get the wheel off and get the brake anchor in your hands. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/15/24 at 12:24:47 Shoes removed. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by transam4life on 07/15/24 at 13:07:39 Now that I see the underside it all makes more sense. I thought I had to undo the clamp to remove the brakes. I’m going to work on the rear next weekend so wanted to get an idea in my head of what needed to be done. Thanks for the photos… |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by ThumperPaul on 07/15/24 at 13:31:15 It's pretty easy. Once you see it with shoes, it'll make more sense. They just "fold out" in there and attach with 2 springs. Boing, done. Try not to pinch your finger. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by TheBabyDerp on 09/24/24 at 07:52:12 I was fortunate enough to get a frame lift from a neighbor for free. I pulled both wheels off Friday in about 90 minutes. I just hope I can get the rear aligned going back in. I have only ever done wheels on a sportster. 70 and 70 is not bad. 140 for the labor assuming that includes mounting the tires to the wheels too. Not bad at all in this economy. |
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Title: Re: Removing the wheels for new tires question… Post by JOG on 09/28/24 at 14:54:19 Ya still gotta trust someone to get the alignment and belt tension right. You can bet on the belt being too tight. If they use the Official belt tensioning tool,it's too tight. Alignment takes more time than lining up the marks on the swing arm.. That got it close,,but wasn't The Answer in my experience. |
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