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Message started by verslagen1 on 08/25/24 at 12:14:41

Title: Oil pressure check
Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/24 at 12:14:41

What places would it be good for temporarily attaching a pressure gage to check the oil pressure?

I know the 1st is the forward facing plug on the right side of the case.

I'm thinking that there is an identically sized plug in the head cover for the intake rocker shaft but I can't tell if that fed with oil.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by Graybeard on 08/25/24 at 17:13:28

Get it stood up pretty vertical, get the tool ya need, fire it up and loosen the thing up and see if it oozes? Goose it and see if it oozes faster?

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by Dave on 08/25/24 at 18:46:53

This is what I am doing for a temporary look see.

I thickened the filter cover and tapped it 1/8" npt.

The aluminum piece is JB welded and has two screws tapped to ensure it does not come loose.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by Dave on 08/25/24 at 18:48:42

Other side.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by Dave on 08/25/24 at 18:49:18

Goofy look when assembled.

It turns out the 60psi gauge is horrible at the low 2-4psi at idle and read zero.

Currently I have a 0-30 psi gauge with a valve I shut off then the engine is cold and the oil is thick.....I can open the valve once the oil is up to temp.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by Dave on 08/25/24 at 18:52:23

This is how the arrangement looks with the valve in place.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/24 at 21:27:20

from what I understand, taking it from the front port will yield the same pressure.

I want to check the pressure at various points to check proper flow.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by Graybeard on 08/25/24 at 22:19:54

That's a right nifty project. Have you got it in your head that you really, really Need to see what it is in the cam bearing areas? I don't remember how it's built up in there, so, I'm not Trying to be a clown,,

Aside from the filter, where else are you planning on tapping in?
And the reinforcing on the filter cover Might look odd,,but it looks very well thought out.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by DragBikeMike on 08/26/24 at 02:35:44

I don’t think the intake rocker shaft plug will work. The shaft only has about .001” clearance. I assume you aren’t considering removal of the head cover. If you are not opposed to removing the head cover, it is easy to drill out one of the plugs (right or left) in the oil gallery, drill & tap 1/8 NPT, and install a fitting. Most informative location would be left side of the head cover since it is adjacent to the most remote bearing.

You could also drill a small passage through the far left side of the left cam bearing into the void between the rocker shaft and the plug you are considering. I do that to my head covers to provide some lubrication for the intake rocker shaft since it floats ( unlike the Exh shaft which is fixed). I still don’t think that is the ideal location for instrumentation since the oil flow is throttled by the cam bearing. However it should give you a good idea how bad things can get pressure wise. I suspect the pressure in that location should be bleak.

Dave’s filter cover mod is sweet. Quick & dirty. All you need is a spare filter cover.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by ThumperPaul on 08/27/24 at 05:19:17

I know nothing, but wouldn’t it be too convenient if you could rig up something to where the breather hose attaches in the head cover and it could provide some meaningful info.

As Sgt Schultz said, “I know nothing!”.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by verslagen1 on 11/13/24 at 15:38:19

Well, the rocker shaft didn't have any pressure cause it doesn't have any oil flowing to it. I was confusing it with the cam shaft.

So, I found a spot I know has oil flowing to it and won't be difficult to rig up a temporary tap. The rear head cover bolt that has the oil flowing up to the head cover. I'm going to replace the m130 bolt with a longer bolt so I can add a m6 banjo tap to read the pressure.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by JOG on 11/13/24 at 20:57:48

You gonna hafta drill the bolt?

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by verslagen1 on 11/13/24 at 21:56:18

6C594A52494E4A594F2B0 wrote:

You gonna hafta drill the bolt?

Why? oil flows up around it and leaks if the sealing washer is bad.
But maybe it will be restrictive, maybe I'll need to file a flat in the bolt to give an unrestrictive path. Time will tell.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by DragBikeMike on 11/14/24 at 01:29:33

That right-rear head cover bolt will work just fine. I like your plan to use a 6mm banjo. I drilled through the head cover to tap into that location. It worked great but the banjo fitting is a much simpler approach. If you use M6 x 1.0 continuously threaded rod it will provide plenty of flow up to your fitting. You can use the all-thread with an acorn nut. Just cut the all-thread to the appropriate length.

https://www.amazon.com/Beduan-Stainless-Threaded-M6-1-0-Thread/dp/B09FJKXZH8/ref=asc_df_B09FJKXZH8?mcid=02cbdbe0439a37bd9a1b543ac26fffdc&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693675076764&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18145901978417223198&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032800&hvtargid=pla-2062373790183&th=1

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by verslagen1 on 12/04/24 at 15:36:44

M6x150mm long all thread worked great, 2 thick rubber gaskets, a big washer and a sealing washer.

I used a 60psi air tank gage for the top and a 180psi compressor tester for the bottom.

at idle I'm getting 60psi at the lower front pressure tap and 20psi at the top right rear head cover bolt. oil is 70°F or so.

I'm concerned about the 60psi reading... do you think it's because I'm using a compression tester and it's holding peak pressor?

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by JOG on 12/04/24 at 16:21:45

If it's steady,and the rpm vary, yes.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by Dave on 12/05/24 at 03:14:30

4D5E4948575A5C5E550A3B0 wrote:

I'm getting 60psi at the lower front pressure tap and 20psi at the top right rear head cover bolt. oil is 70°F or so.

I'm concerned about the 60psi reading... do you think it's because I'm using a compression tester and it's holding peak pressor?

The oil pressure drops considerably as the engine oil warms up. The pressure tester I used on the filter cover would easily go over 70psi when at ambient air temperature - but dropped down to 15psi at 3,000rpm when the engine was fully warmed up (10W-40). Once warmed up with the overdrive pump gears the pressure at idle at the filter cover was around 3-4psi.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by verslagen1 on 12/05/24 at 11:31:57

Ok, I took the check valve out of the compression tester and started the bike.
It again rose to 60/15 psi (bottom/top) but within a minute dropped to 30/12 psi.

And once it warmed up became 28/7 and steadied out to 25/5 psi at idle.
At 2-3000 rpm it rose to 30/12 again.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by ThumperPaul on 12/05/24 at 13:43:13

Versy, where are you heading with this info? Are you thinking of an upgrade of some sort?

Y’all have pretty well documented that oil pressure is pretty low at idle. I think about Youzguyz with over 222,222 miles on his bike and I don’t think he upgraded the oil pump or did anything special.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by DragBikeMike on 12/05/24 at 16:23:16

If you are running a stock oil pump drive, that is fantastic pressure.

Do you know exactly what temp your oil was at when you got the 25/5?

My oil pressure gage is currently tapped into the left side of the head cover (most remote bearing). I also am running an external feed to the head cover. As you have observed, the drop in pressure from 70F to normal operating temp is dramatic. With 20W-50 oil, mine will max out the 0-30psi gage at idle when oil is below 75F. With oil at 200F it runs 6 psi at idle and 14 psi at 4K.

What weight oil are you running?

Is your pump drive stock?

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by verslagen1 on 12/05/24 at 18:37:07

It's a stock bike and I'm trying to figure out a cam wear issue.
Oil pressure is my 1st guess.

My next thought is to remove the oil filter and see how the pressure goes.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by DragBikeMike on 12/06/24 at 00:34:09

Maybe you have an obstructed oil passage in the head cover, or possibly sealant in the cam bearing chamfers. Your oil pressure at tha head cover is off the hook high for a stock setup with 10W-40 (assuming the oil was at least 200F when you took readings). A stock motor runs close to zero at idle and only about 6psi on the freeway (measured at the head cover).

The only thing that would cause the pressure to increase to the value you are seeing is an obstruction in the head cover or plugged up bearing chamfers.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by ThumperPaul on 12/06/24 at 05:01:13

Clogged arteries and high blood pressure. Start with 40mg of Pravastatin and 20mg of Lisinopril before bedtime.

Are you doing these oil pressure checks with the worn out camshaft installed or did you install a new or good used cam?

Could you run some thin 20w oil for a short while and try to clean it up? Or maybe add a pint of alcohol to the oil. I know, I’m full of bad ideas…

Oil filter new? Would a new filter improve flow and lower the blood pressure? Interested to see what your next test of removing the oil filter reveals.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/24 at 12:31:04

The previous test was run after being out of town for a month, so there maybe some affect on that test.

I reran the test, I don't have a direct way to measure temperature so I used my ir temp gage on the oil filter cover which is how I did it for my previous oil temp tests.

the test will be conducted at idle (no tach) with occasional blips

start 60F 40/15 psi
1 min 63F 35/12 psi
2 min 66F 35/10 psi
3 min 73F 30/8 psi
4 min 80F 28/7 psi
5 min 88F 25/6 psi
6 min 94F 24/5 psi started fan
high idle 30/10 psi
7 min 98F 20/4 psi
8 min 105F 20/4 psi
9 min 108F 17/3 psi
high idle 30/8 psi then shut off.

After a few minutes of being shut off I measured the temp at 118F.

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by DragBikeMike on 12/11/24 at 11:47:07

You can see from your readings that the trend is not good, however it is typical of a stock LS650 oil system. You need to get your oil temp up to normal operating temperature (200F).

After a long ride yesterday, I checked my filter cover with a IR thermometer. It correlates perfectly with my TrailTech unit which utilizes a thermo-bulb immersed in pump discharge oil. The IR read 205F while the TrailTech read 203F (engine running). Your temp measuring method is perfect.

Get your oil up to 200F and I bet you have zero psi at idle and about 4 to 5 psi at 3500 to 4000 rpm. If the pressure is significantly higher, then I would suspect an obstruction. You are chasing a pitted cam lobe problem. Any obstruction in the cam bearings will result in higher pressure at your gage while limiting lubrication to the cam bearings and lobes.

Are you running 10W-40?

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by ThumperPaul on 12/12/24 at 08:40:27

Reply #16 = 10W/40. Good discussion here - following.

Add 16oz more oil. Blow out that clotted artery and cross your fingers that the gaskets and seals don’t blow out! :o Humans have blood thinners and antihypertensives for this condition. That’s all I got. Carry on please.

Good luck figuring this out before replacing the cam and head (and/or head cover).

Title: Re: Oil pressure check
Post by verslagen1 on 12/12/24 at 12:54:48

787E710D0F080C3C0 wrote:

Yes, Rotella 10w40

I replaced the head and cam last year, don't want to do it again.