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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Help! My bike wont run! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1730160337 Message started by MrMangoTime on 10/28/24 at 17:05:37 |
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Title: Help! My bike wont run! Post by MrMangoTime on 10/28/24 at 17:05:37 Hey guys, I hate that a post like this has to be my first post on the forum, but here I am... lol. Allow me to elaborate on my problem... I bought a 2007 S40 with just a little over 11,000 miles on it back about 2 months ago. Up until about two weeks ago it was running just fine (I've had it since the end of august). Although I've had it for a little while now, I haven't been able to take it on the open road quite yet. This is because I had to get an M endorsement put on my license (I've rode dirt bikes my whole life but wanted to get into riding on the street) and it needed new tires. There was a small hole on the outside portion of the drive belt so I replaced that with a used belt in very good condition as well. After I installed the belt (around a week and a half ago), I hopped on it to take a ride around my neighborhood to see how everything felt. I had been riding for around 2 minutes when I accelerated through a turn and got a backfire. I turned down a hill, and as I pull in my clutch to come to a stop at the bottom, the bike dies on me. Lights and everything were (and still are) working fine. The engine cranked just fine. It also acted like it wanted to catch and start but only if I held the throttle wide open. I was pretty low on gas so I thought I might have just needed to fill it up. I ran back to my house to grab my gas can and filled it up. I put the carb on prime for a few seconds to let the bowl fill up, and it changed nothing. So I pushed it to my house and left it alone the rest of the evening because it was getting a bit late anyways. Fast forward to the next day, and it still wasn't starting. This prompts me to pull the carburetor out to see if it needed to be cleaned. While I had the carburetor off, I checked the petcock because I know it is a common problem-causing item, but it was working just fine. I also checked the gas tank and fuel filter, both of which were spotless. I thought it might have been the battery, but I charged it fully and still had the same issues. The carburetor itself was very clean, but I cleaned the jets and such anyways. However, I was unable to get the top part of the carburetor (where the diaphragm is) off. The screws are practically welded in. I've tried to get them out with PB Blaster and it does nothing to free them. The same is the case with the 3 TEV screws on the side of the carb near the mixture screw. The next day I reinstalled everything, as well as gave it a new spark plug and tested the coil for spark (everything looked fine) and it still wouldn't start... until randomly it did. After it started, it idled and ran like nothing ever happened. It felt the same and sounded the same as it did since the day I got it. I let it run a bit and then left it for the night. I had an appointment scheduled to get new tires installed the next day, so I started the bike that morning (started just fine) and ran it around the neighborhood. About the same length of time passed as the first time it died on me and it died again. It went back to not starting. but almost starting if I cranked it while holding the throttle wide open. I loaded the bike up to get the tires changed and got it back a few days ago. This led me to think it was the coil overheating. I replaced it, and no change. I also tested the battery and the readings showed that it was good. With that being said, this is what I have found out: If the bike sits for a a good few hours (like overnight), it will start if I hold the throttle wide open while it cranks on a full battery. Before I never had to touch the throttle to get it to start. I can keep it running by modulating the throttle anywhere from around 1/3 open to wide open, but it absolutely refuses to idle anymore. The odd thing is that it will run at an "idle" speed if I hold the throttle open enough, but it will die as soon as I try to get it to idle without holding the throttle open. If I spray starter fluid down the airbox intake while I'm holding the throttle open to get it to "idle", the rpms increase. To me this sounds like a lean issue with the carburetor's idle circuit not providing enough (if any) gas. The weird thing is that I cleaned it, and the pilot jet was perfectly clear! I will make mention that I messed with the idle mixture screw quite a bit after I got the bike because I drilled out the rivets in the exhaust to make it a bit louder until I can get a nice exhaust like a Delkevic one. The mixture screw used to be rather easy to turn, but now it is almost seized where it will not turn. I believe this started right around the same time it died on me the first time. I think this might be the key to my issue. I was wondering if anyone who sees this post has experienced this issue or knows someone else on the forum who has? Does anyone have a clue what the issue is? It seems that everything I believe might be the problem ends up not fixing it at all. The coil, battery, petcock/filter, and the parts of the carb I can get to all look fine/work great. I just don't understand it. If you need more info, please just ask. I'll give you any info I can if that helps you figure out what might be my problem. PLEASE HELP! |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by verslagen1 on 10/28/24 at 19:04:41 2121322F2E3072737073400 wrote:
the factory uses some sort of locktite, I usually just grab the head of the screw with a small pair of vice grips and break it loose, and then replace with allen heads. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by verslagen1 on 10/28/24 at 19:09:44 6F6F7C61607E3C3D3E3D0E0 wrote:
ah... the old louder trick. and you're right, it's lean and you probably need larger jets. holes need bigger holes. see the tuning posts in the tech section. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by Yoshi on 10/28/24 at 19:13:27 Next time is stalls try removing the gas cap, I have a feeling |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by MrMangoTime on 10/29/24 at 10:17:08 Quote:
See, that's the thing though. It had been running fine for a few weeks with the holes drilled and no changes to the carb itself OTHER than the mixture screw adjustment. That's why I'm so confused. I'll take a look at the tuning section. Thanks for the advice on the screws as well, I'll grab my vice grips and see if I can get them loose. :) |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by JOG on 10/29/24 at 14:06:06 If you have a Dremel you can cut a slot for a bigger screwdriver. This is where an impact makes an Impact. Or put flats on them for visegrips to hold onto. It's a mystery when It was doing Fiiine. And now it's not. Are you sure the gas is good? |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 10/29/24 at 16:42:28 Sounds like your air/fuel mix screw is royally messed up if it won't move smoothly and gets stuck. Can you gently turn it all the way in clockwise (don't smash it in there, just gently until it stops turning)? Then back it out 2 full turns. Try that. I broke a carb trying to get a seized air fuel mix screw out. Be gently. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by MrMangoTime on 10/29/24 at 20:21:33 0D382B33282F2B382E4A0 wrote:
I'm 100% positive the gas is good. I originally thought this was my problem or it just got too low to run on anything but the RES valve. I went as far as draining the tank and carb completely... TWICE... and getting fresh no-ethanol 87 octane gas. I even ran the same gas in my lawn mower to make sure it wasn't a case of bad luck. So yeah the gas is fine, and the tank/filter/petcock is fine too. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by MrMangoTime on 10/29/24 at 20:25:38 5C607D65786D7A58697D64080 wrote:
It has progressively gotten harder to turn every time I have tried to adjust it since around the time it died on me until now. I'm worried I will literally "screw" up the screw head if I try to turn it with the force it needs to actually move any small bit now. When I first got the bike it was very easy to turn like a mixture screw should be. I'm almost half tempted to just get a new carburetor all together like a more simple Mikuni VM38 if I can 100% confirm the carb is the problem. I saw some tests between the stock carb and a few others such as the VM38 here on the forum and it seemed to perform better and be a little bit smaller in the process. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by JOG on 10/30/24 at 01:43:07 You may have figured out where the problem is. Paul,,daang.. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 10/30/24 at 05:10:25 5050435E5F4103020102310 wrote:
It has progressively gotten harder to turn every time I have tried to adjust it since around the time it died on me until now. I'm worried I will literally "screw" up the screw head if I try to turn it with the force it needs to actually move any small bit now. When I first got the bike it was very easy to turn like a mixture screw should be. I'm almost half tempted to just get a new carburetor all together like a more simple Mikuni VM38 if I can 100% confirm the carb is the problem. I saw some tests between the stock carb and a few others such as the VM38 here on the forum and it seemed to perform better and be a little bit smaller in the process. [/quote] The same thing happened to my A/F mix screw when I went to replace it during a rebuild/cleaning. Given your symptoms and when the problem started (after you fiddled with it), I’m 99% sure that’s the issue. Wherever you got it stuck at, the engine doesn’t like that a/f mixture. Its sounds like it’s stuck in a “too lean” setting. See if you can get it to move counterclockwise 1/2 to 1 full turn. Get some penetrating oil in there and gently move it back and forth while working it outwards (counterclockwise) about 1/2 turn. Final adjustment (optimal setting) might be more like 1 full turn out from where it’s stuck right now. You can optimize and tinker later, but you gotta get that screw to move to tune it. I could be wrong about “too lean” based on your symptoms. It’s possibly too rich. If it starts more easily when it’s cold, it’s getting the richer a/f ratio it needs when cold with the too rich setting. The bike will struggle to start if it’s set too rich AND you pull the choke (too much fuel to air). Question: When you fiddled the a/f screw, do you think you partially moved it inward or outward? Directing guidance without knowing where it’s presently set makes tuning it and providing guidance tricky. Ideally, you’d want to get it seated all the way in and then turn it out 2 full turns (that’s the base tune starting point that will at least get the bike started rather easily and idling somewhat smoothly). From there, the optimal tune is usually within 1/2 turn in either direction unless the pilot jet has been replaced with a smaller or larger one. If you think you got it backed out 1 turn fighting with it, try to get it moved back in 1 turn. And vise versa, if you think you screwed it in 1 turn, try getting it backed out 1 turn. In essence, you’ve lost proper tune fiddling with it. After stripping the head, I resorted to various methods to remove it including trying to tap it out. There’s no room to work down in that rabbit hole and I screwed the pooch (stripped the threads and killed the carb). You can try using some penetrating oil or PB Blaster penetrating catalyst on the screw. Let it sit overnight and do its job. Then work the screw backwards and forwards to remove it (baby steps). If you can get it out, you’ll want to get a new screw and o-ring in there. I ended up replacing my stock carb with a Keihin-style PWK38 and I had a Mikuni VM36 on a different S40 I had. They both work great, but you will need a different throttle cable (or modify the stock one), a different air snorkel intake or air filter, and you need to have some carb tuning knowledge. It’s not difficult, but it’s not a simple plug ‘n play either. If you aren’t familiar with working on carbs, I’d focus on getting that seized A/F mix screw out of there. You’re not the first person it’s happened to. It’s happened to several people. Apparently old gas gets gunked up in there and acts like frinkin’ loctite on the screw. In addition to penetrating oil or PB Blaster, you might try soaking some carb cleaner down the rabbit hole. I considered a mild acid, but that would be too harsh on the aluminum. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by MrMangoTime on 10/30/24 at 08:52:46 The same thing happened to my A/F mix screw when I went to replace it during a rebuild/cleaning. Given your symptoms and when the problem started (after you fiddled with it), I’m 99% sure that’s the issue. Wherever you got it stuck at, the engine doesn’t like that a/f mixture. Its sounds like it’s stuck in a “too lean” setting. See if you can get it to move counterclockwise 1/2 to 1 full turn. Get some penetrating oil in there and gently move it back and forth while working it outwards (counterclockwise) about 1/2 turn. Final adjustment (optimal setting) might be more like 1 full turn out from where it’s stuck right now. You can optimize and tinker later, but you gotta get that screw to move to tune it. I could be wrong about “too lean” based on your symptoms. It’s possibly too rich. If it starts more easily when it’s cold, it’s getting the richer a/f ratio it needs when cold with the too rich setting. The bike will struggle to start if it’s set too rich AND you pull the choke (too much fuel to air). Question: When you fiddled the a/f screw, do you think you partially moved it inward or outward? Directing guidance without knowing where it’s presently set makes tuning it and providing guidance tricky. Ideally, you’d want to get it seated all the way in and then turn it out 2 full turns (that’s the base tune starting point that will at least get the bike started rather easily and idling somewhat smoothly). From there, the optimal tune is usually within 1/2 turn in either direction unless the pilot jet has been replaced with a smaller or larger one. If you think you got it backed out 1 turn fighting with it, try to get it moved back in 1 turn. And vise versa, if you think you screwed it in 1 turn, try getting it backed out 1 turn. In essence, you’ve lost proper tune fiddling with it. After stripping the head, I resorted to various methods to remove it including trying to tap it out. There’s no room to work down in that rabbit hole and I screwed the pooch (stripped the threads and killed the carb). You can try using some penetrating oil or PB Blaster penetrating catalyst on the screw. Let it sit overnight and do its job. Then work the screw backwards and forwards to remove it (baby steps). If you can get it out, you’ll want to get a new screw and o-ring in there. I ended up replacing my stock carb with a Keihin-style PWK38 and I had a Mikuni VM36 on a different S40 I had. They both work great, but you will need a different throttle cable (or modify the stock one), a different air snorkel intake or air filter, and you need to have some carb tuning knowledge. It’s not difficult, but it’s not a simple plug ‘n play either. If you aren’t familiar with working on carbs, I’d focus on getting that seized A/F mix screw out of there. You’re not the first person it’s happened to. It’s happened to several people. Apparently old gas gets gunked up in there and acts like frinkin’ loctite on the screw. In addition to penetrating oil or PB Blaster, you might try soaking some carb cleaner down the rabbit hole. I considered a mild acid, but that would be too harsh on the aluminum. [/quote] Thanks so much for the help, Paul. When this whole issue started, I followed the basic tuning steps by turning the screw forward/back to where the bike begins to stumble and then finding the happy medium between the two. The screw is supposed to back out all the way in order to remove it correct? Because it got to a point where it would not let me back it out any further so I stopped and went the other direction. My only question is why would the bike be seemingly running fine and let me ride it like nothing was wrong and then suddenly die? It didn't die when I was messing with the mixture screw. It died while I was riding it around my neighborhood when I pulled in my clutch coming to a stop. Maybe some gunk dislodged and blocked the opening inside the mixture screw's passage? I will say it felt like it was rather weak at lower RPMs right before it died which is where the idle circuit provides almost all of the fuel. This whole thing is utterly confusing LOL. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 10/30/24 at 10:46:58 The air/fuel mix screw adjusts the pilot circuit. It mostly regulates idle and just off idle. That said, it doesn’t quit working just because the needle and main jet take over responsibility. So it modestly impacts the a/f mixture at all operating speeds. When you close the throttle, pull the clutch, and are slowing down, the engine wants to find idle. It can’t find good idle because the a/f mixture is incorrect - so it stalls and dies. Your approach to adjusting is generally correct. You want to find the happy place when adjusting. You gotta find that happy place again. The problem right now is you don’t know where you are at. Are you at 0.5 turns out or 4 turns out. Yes, the darn thing should come completely out by turning it counterclockwise. I can’t tell you how many F-bombs I dropped when mine got stuck and seized in there at about 4 turns out. Somebody out here more detailed than myself probably knows exactly how many turns it takes for it to come out completely (maybe 6-8 turns). I don’t remember exactly how many turns and didn’t count the threads. Good luck getting it completely out…or simply finding the happy place probably around 2 turns out. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by MrMangoTime on 10/30/24 at 11:03:15 6458455D4055426051455C300 wrote:
Thanks so much for the info, Paul. It seems that the mixture screw is my issue. I'm going to take a good part of my day tomorrow to see if I can get the darn thing disassembled so I can clean the whole thing in one of those big paint can sized things of carb cleaner. Part of me wants to just get a different carb altogether, but I'll see if I can salvage the one I've got for the time being. I'll get back to this thread after I get a chance to work on the thing and see if that fixes my problem. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ohiomoto on 10/30/24 at 17:30:45 Sounds like a bad petcock to me. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by MrMangoTime on 10/30/24 at 18:20:59 6E69686E6C6E756E010 wrote:
No its not the petcock. I've checked and double checked it. It runs off of engine vacuum and on prime just fine. and the carb is getting plenty of gas. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 10/31/24 at 05:11:20 A good thorough cleaning never hurts as long as you can get it all put back together correctly. If you use the dip bath method, make sure you remove all the o-rings and rubber parts (diaphragm and TEV diaphragm). Good diagram of the carb in post #2 —> http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1098869040 Removing Air/Fuel Mix Screw —> http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1350749896/0 If you decide to clean it or not, you have to get that A/F mix screw back in functional condition. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 10/31/24 at 05:26:51 If you decide to make a paperweight out of the stock carb, here’s a post on my trials and tribulations installing the Keihin-style PWK38 —> http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1714330191 A good starting point for the jetting is where I quit tinkering with mine: Pilot Jet #32 Main Jet #125 E-clip in the middle groove on the needle (it comes this way when you buy it) The manufacturer installed jets are HUGE. You can’t use those and you have to buy extra pilot and main jets. I’ve had good luck with the cheap jet kits you can buy on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07MMJV6BT?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 10/31/24 at 05:38:14 If you decide to go the Mikuni VM36/38 route, Lancer sells a complete kit. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1338654578 |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by MrMangoTime on 10/31/24 at 13:52:02 [quote author=6D514C54495C4B69584C55390 link=1730160337/15#18 date=1730378294]If you decide to go the Mikuni VM36/38 route, Lancer sells a complete kit. I was looking around today and saw one of these from Murray Carbs. Heard anything about these kits? https://murrayscarbs.com/product/suzuki-boulevard-s40-ls650-savage-mikuni-vm36-carb-kit/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1Yy5BhD-ARIsAI0RbXY8DfmLnRHWErfKA_xCwMC_PTdIU2CD9L8RQZI2vDQDZ8XoYgTgDaAaAsN9EALw_wcB#reviews |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 10/31/24 at 14:32:48 When I had my old S40 with a Mikuni VM36, it was from Murray’s carbs. His jet set up (tune) is very different than Lancer’s typical recommended set up. I ended up rejetting using Lancer’s guidance for the main jet and it was much better. Murray swears by his setup, but the main jet is too lean (#165). Lancer recommends somewhere between 180-200 depending on exhaust, elevation, etc. I rejetted to #200 and liked it better. SurvivingPhilly has a Murray VM36 carb and he also rejetted his with the #200 and liked it better. Murray can be a crusty old bird when you start asking questions or question his setup. Defensive you might say. I probably rubbed him the wrong way too. He also makes the exposed length of his throttle cables about 1” too long and gets really defensive about that. He ended up making 3 for me until I got one that was workable (it was the principle of the matter). He only charged me for 1 (like $15). That’s a good deal and he custom makes the cables (nice quality). I was able to modify and shorten the other 2 cables he sent, so I have a couple backups now. He’s reputable and stands behind his work. Even if you gotta argue with him a bit. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ohiomoto on 10/31/24 at 18:23:50 36362538392765646764570 wrote:
No its not the petcock. I've checked and double checked it. It runs off of engine vacuum and on prime just fine. and the carb is getting plenty of gas. [/quote] So many words...I must have missed the part where you checked the petcock. Sorry. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by JOG on 11/01/24 at 00:19:10 If you can find a tap the size and thread of the AF screw you might want to chase the threads in the carburetor. If you can't find a Bottom Hole tap, you can cut the taper off of the regular tap. If you can't Find a tap, a bolt with a slot cut into it, with the slot angled such that the deep side of the slot is to the left of the center of the bolt will chase threads. I've got several of those in my collection of taps. The harder the bolt, the better, but the carburetor is soft, so less than Grade 8 would probably be okay. You can dress up threads on a bolt with a nut strategically sliced through, also. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 11/01/24 at 12:37:55 All I can say is trying to tap it down in that rabbit hole without screwing it up is virtually impossible. Certainly for me it was… I wanted to use the Torx bit method described in the Tech post (shared above), but I never got that far. Taking as many precautions as I thought reasonably necessary, the drill bit decided to take a walk and I “wollered the fak” out of it. Good bye carb! I saved all the guts and good stuff and chunked the carb body in the trash! The End. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by Nianezam on 11/03/24 at 14:13:47 I rebuilt my S40 (2011) again this week. STILL will not run without the choke on full. Driving me nuts! Petcock replaced, all jets cleaned/replaced, fresh fuel, tried the fuel/air screw from 1.5 to 3 turns. When I try to ease off the choke, or slightly hit the throttle, it will sputter and die. I think I might just break down and get a new carb. So I spoke to Murray and his son-in-law yesterday. Told him I wanted to get a carb for my S40, but wanted to ask a few questions. He was pretty rude (my carbs are perfect out of the box, if anyone has a complaint, they don't know what they are doing)--I understand having pride in your product, but before I spend $400, I deserve to be treated with a little courtesy. Would be curious to hear about other experiences with Murray. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 11/03/24 at 15:18:43 Like I said...Murray is a crusty old guy that gets very defensive. We got into a pretty good argument about the exposed length of the cable. He said, "nobody else complained". SurvivingPhilly also had the same problem with the cable length from Murray. My guess is that the people that buy his carbs are newbies, don't know carbs, and don't understand a sloppy cable that's too long. If you want the Mikuni VM36 carb, I suggest buying Lancer's kit. Lancer is on the forum and he supports what he sells. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by Nianezam on 11/04/24 at 05:25:11 How would I contact Lancer to get the kit? Can you please help me understand why some recommend the VM36 and others suggest the 38? THANKS!! Murray told me the sliding carb is much better than the stock version, do you agree? |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 11/04/24 at 05:30:20 I’m guessing you meant rebuilt your “carb” and not a complete bike tear down and rebuild. ?? Before you venture into the world of a Mikuni VM36 slide carb with all its nuances, I suggest you learn the stock carb and how it works and needs to be cleaned and reassembled correctly. The slightest reassembly mistake can and will cause major issues… Let rewind and get some background and details… How long have you had the bike? Did it run reasonably well when you got it? What prompted you to rebuild the carb the 1st time? What did the bike do after the first rebuild? So you’ve done a 2nd carb rebuild… Where are you getting your carb kits? What jets do you have installed? Did you clean and/or replace the TEV? What’s the process you followed to clean the carb? Simply squirting things with a can of carb cleaner won’t work. You gotta get all the gunk out of the tiny air passages. Are you sure the diaphragm and slide are in good condition? Simply orienting the diaphragm incorrectly under the dome will cause issues. Did you check the float valve height? If the float bowl isn’t filling up to the proper level, it will go into fuel starvation mode. Did you reassemble the needle correctly? That can be a bit tricky. Are you using the stock white spacer? Or did you modify it or use thinner spacers (washers)? Are you using an authentic Mikuni needle or some unmarked needle that came out of a cheap eBay carb kit? About the only thing good in those cheap carb kits might be the float bowl gasket. All the other unmarked junk in those kits is a crapshoot. Do you have everything buttoned up tight (no air leaks) and the air filter installed? An air leak at the intake boot or manifold can create an overly rich condition. It can be something this simple. We’ll need some background and details to get started. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by Nianezam on 11/04/24 at 05:55:36 I’m guessing you meant rebuilt your “carb” and not a complete bike tear down and rebuild. YES-I GOT A KIT ON AMAZON, R157 How long have you had the bike? TWO MONTHS AND I'VE HAD THIS ISSUE SINCE DAY ONE. Did it run reasonably well when you got it? NOT UNLESS I HAD THE CHOKE FULL AND OPEND THE AIR/FUEL SCREW TO ABOUT 4 TURNS What prompted you to rebuild the carb the 1st time? TRY TO CORRECT THE PROBLEMS. What did the bike do after the first rebuild? EXACT SAME THING. So you’ve done a 2nd carb rebuild… YES Where are you getting your carb kits? AMAZON What jets do you have installed? STOCK SIZES, NOT CUSTOMIZATION Did you clean and/or replace the TEV? NOT, I CAN'T GET ONE OF THE ****SCREWS OUT AND I STRIPPED IT IN FRUSTRATION--I'M THINKING I SHOULD CUT THE HEAD OFF THE SCREW, CLEAN THE TEV, AND THEN PUT THE COVER BACK ON WITH THE REMAINING TWO SREWS AND SOME LIQUID GASKET? What’s the process you followed to clean the carb? Simply squirting things with a can of carb cleaner won’t work. You gotta get all the gunk out of the tiny air passages. I USED CARB CLEANER, LONG SKINNY BRUSHES AND BLEW IT ALL OUT WITH COMPRESSED AIR. VERY HARD TO CLEAN THE PILOT JET, SO I PUT IN A NEW ONE FROM THE KIT. Are you sure the diaphragm and slide are in good condition? YES Simply orienting the diaphragm incorrectly under the dome will cause issues. Did you check the float valve height? NO If the float bowl isn’t filling up to the proper level, it will go into fuel starvation mode. Did you reassemble the needle correctly? CLEANED AND REUSED THE OLD ONE That can be a bit tricky. Are you using the stock white spacer? Or did you modify it or use thinner spacers (washers)? Are you using an authentic Mikuni needle or some unmarked needle that came out of a cheap eBay carb kit? About the only thing good in those cheap carb kits might be the float bowl gasket. All the other unmarked junk in those kits is a crapshoot. MOST OF THE ITEMS WERE UNMARKED AND I WAS SUSPICIOUS Do you have everything buttoned up tight (no air leaks) and the air filter installed? I HAVE BEEN TESTING IT WITHOUT CONNECTING TO THE AIR BOX. GOOD-TIGHT CONNECTION TO THE MANIFOLD GASKET. An air leak at the intake boot or manifold can create an overly rich condition. It can be something this simple. We’ll need some background and details to get started. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!!! I THINK I SHOULD BUY A KIT THAT HAS THE PROPER MARKINGS ON ALL THE PARTS, CAN YOU PLEASE RECOMMEND ONE? |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 11/04/24 at 06:04:03 See my reply #18 for a link to Lancer’s carbs. You’ll need to reply to that post since you can’t private message him until you have 10 posts/comments. There are lots of discussions on the forum about a slide carb vs stock CV carb. I suggest reading many or all of them. The Mikuni VM36/38 slide carbs offer better throttle response and can provide more top end power if tuned correctly. The stock CV carb is a good everyday riding carb. For a stock bike and normal everyday riding, there isn’t a big performance difference between the two carbs. If you soup up the bike with a more aggressive cam, bigger high comp piston, better flowing exhaust, bigger valves, porting and so on - the slide carb is the way to go. I sense you aren’t at the experience level to be doing major modifications and just getting the stock carb performing correctly is already challenging enough. If you are just learning to wrench and tune, start with the stock carb. The VM36/38 carb isn’t exactly plug and play so you’d struggle with it as well. The VM36 is better suited to stock. The 38 perhaps if you have some performance mods. That’s debatable, but bigger isn’t always better. I think a lot can be said for the Venturi effect of a smaller bore carb. Some will disagree with me. I suggest fixing your stock carb for starters. It will give you a better base understanding and build confidence once you get it right. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by Nianezam on 11/04/24 at 06:09:38 Thank you for the prompt response. So you're suggesting I contact Lancer for the proper rebuild kit? If not, can you suggest where I can get a good rebuild kit for this stock carb? |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 11/04/24 at 06:25:07 Now we’re getting somewhere! #1) Reinstall the snorkel from the carb to air box! Have a fresh clean air filter installed. The bike absolutely will not run right without this in place even if you have the right jets in there! You might be able to skip an air intake system on a 110cc dirt bike, but not the Savage. #2) Set your air fuel mix screw to 2 turn out. Pull the choke. Give it a try. DON’T twist the throttle while trying to start on choke. Let the choke do its thing. Don’t try to help it no matter how much it cries. You may get lucky with the cheap Amazon carb kit and jets. You just don’t know what the heck you’re installing (unmarked chinesium alloy whatever). The jets may be terribly over/under sized. For now, we’ll give them the benefit of a doubt and hope they got it close. Try 1 and 2 first. Assuming it starts and finds a decent high idle…. Don’t just stand there admiring it while it’s sitting on the side stand. Sit on it straight up and down (oil pressure need). Ease off the choke incrementally. See if it will find normal idle. Adjust idle speed to a decent somewhat rapid idle. See if you can blip the throttle. If all this works out, go for a short ride and get the bike up to full operating temperature. Then go thru the final air/fuel mix screw procedure in the tech section. Too much to retype here. Good luck. Let us know. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by Nianezam on 11/04/24 at 07:02:17 First, thank you for your kind patience. Connected the carb to the airbox nice and tight. Pulled the choke out, she fired right up. (two turns out on the screw). Let it idle at full choke for 3-4 minutes, pushed the choke halfway back in, started to sputter and died. Choke full out, started right back up, did not idle as smooth. Pulled VERY lightly on the throttle cable, engine died. Such is my life :-( There is a stock carb for sale on Facebook for $50. The guy said it ran great before he took it off. Maybe I start all over, properly get the screws out of the TEV, thoroughly clean the jets, and pray for a miracle? Or should I just take it to the Suzuki dealer and drop $350? OK-THANKS FOR THE TOUGH LOVE, I'LL TRY AGAIN. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 11/04/24 at 07:20:28 Famous words “it ran great the last time I used it”. You’d likely be buying a new problem. It’s cheap for a reason. But for $50, I’d buy it and rebuild it and sell on eBay for like $180 in completely rebuilt condition. While you’re still having issues, is it better? It doesn’t sound like you have a major problem (but it seems like it in your shoes). For some reason it’s not getting enough fuel at idle speed or when you crack open the throttle. Try turning up the idle. Turn the idle screw in clockwise 2 turns. Try to start without using the choke. Will it start? |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by Nianezam on 11/04/24 at 07:29:04 Not better with me sitting on it, upright. Still will not run without full choke and sneezing on the throttle is like hitting the kill switch. I turned up the idle screw, cranked it with the choke in, nothing. Not even a sputter or cough. If there is even the slightest chance it's the TEV, should I get that third screw off, take it apart and clean it? |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 11/04/24 at 07:50:10 It’s hard to say sitting here. At this point, it seems like the pilot jet isn’t picking up fuel. It’s probably not the TEV that has the most impact when closing the throttle on deceleration. I don’t know…. I’d try a genuine Mikuni pilot jet. Like a #47.5 or #50. I’d also go back thru the carb and make sure all the passages are clean and it’s reassembled correctly. Sorry, I wish I could be more helpful. You can get an authentic Mikuni pilot jet and other jets/rebuild kits at JetsRUs.com if you don’t want to go thru Lancer. The first set of pilot jets (No cross drilled holes.). If you don’t want to buy a 47.5 and 50, I’d opt for the 50 and lean it down with the air/fuel mix screw as needed. https://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_mikuni_BS_series.htm |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by Nianezam on 11/04/24 at 07:53:52 I will order the jet today. Thank you so much for your help!! |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 11/04/24 at 08:03:14 And maybe another forum member with more experience than myself with these carbs will chime in. |
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Title: Re: Help! My bike wont run! Post by ThumperPaul on 11/04/24 at 08:17:50 To save on shipping costs, you may want to order an authentic main jet and other parts too (consider a float valve assembly). Also, here’s a decent article and videos you can read and watch while waiting for new parts. I’m by no means a carb guru and people on this forum have watched me struggle through my own trials and tribulations. I’m just trying to get you headed in the right direction. https://www.partzilla.com/blog/troubleshooting-engine-runs-on-choke?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA_qG5BhDTARIsAA0UHSJRbyjm_Bqg1QoI7weQ0OPHRPdxt-U9YK94N5CUhJ-5sHZIiDftkbgaAvEAEALw_wcB |
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