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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> what style or model is this mikuni? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1730874796 Message started by tippytop on 11/05/24 at 22:33:15 |
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Title: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by tippytop on 11/05/24 at 22:33:15 the air/fuel screw is stripped out when i bought it. I want to change it out, but i changed out the petcock with the raptor and plugged the vaccum hole on the carb and it runs great with choke out but bogs down once I push it in a hit throttle. Did i make mistake going raptor? I want new carb so i can adjust when needed. I just received on VM36 from ebay but doens't have the throttle cable hook up....this has a different top on it. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by ThumperPaul on 11/06/24 at 13:08:19 A stripped air fuel mix screw has nothing to do with the petcock valve. The stripped air fuel mix screw is discussed in this recent post. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1730160337 The raptor petcock valve will work beautifully with a VM36. You have a stock Mikuni CV (constant velocity) carb (BS40ss). The VM36 is a slide carb (totally different animal). It’s not plug and play. You need a different throttle cable for the VM36, or modify the stock cable to work. And you’ll have to make a different air intake snorkel or use a pod or cone air filter mounted directly to the carb. And you need to know how to tune the VM36 carb. Based on your questions, I suggest learning how to fix the stock carb. Read the post I sent a link to. There are other links to more info within that thread. Welcome to the world of savagely dirty carb problems on cheap 2nd hand fixer uppers. So many of these bikes are savagely passed along from one newbie owner to the next and are abused and unloved. Give it love and it has hope. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by JOG on 11/06/24 at 13:49:32 Tippy,I have a carburetor and I'm just fifty miles north of Flint. It's jetted pretty well. It runs good with a Dyna . Well it Ran good,till I stacked it up on a car.I actually have 2. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by ThumperPaul on 11/06/24 at 14:25:10 Suggest reading everything in the Carb section here —> http://suzukisavage.com/home/tech/fuel/ JOG - when was the last time either of those bikes/carbs were used and running? Haven’t they both been sitting up a while? While they might be jetted right, I’m not sure the air/fuel mix screws on your carbs would move either. They both probably need a thorough cleaning, right? |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by ohiomoto on 11/07/24 at 08:51:30 7168726C6B6076050 wrote:
Welcome TippyTop. I would try get the stock carburetor working before going through all of the trouble of swapping carbs. But before you do anything, you should confirm your using the "choke" correctly. The knob is technically an enrichment circuit and it has three positions.
You may know this but many people overlook the purpose of the partial open position. You can expect bogging for several minutes if you aren't using the "choke" during warm up. This is especially true with stock jetting (if you have it) as it's usually leaner than what is often recommended. Also, never adjust the idle mixture until the engine is at full operating temperature. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by SoC on 11/07/24 at 20:48:17 Jog, I was just going to put an ad up in marketplace looking for a carb that is in working condition. If you have an interest to sell one reach out to me if tippytop doesn't take it. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by JOG on 11/07/24 at 22:37:54 I'm not physically able to get one off. If he wants one, he can come get it. We can put it on a bench,clean it up,and he can take it home. But the labor to get it in my hands would total me out for a coupla days. I'm not up for that. Thanks for the offer. If I could get the clutch cover off,Dave would have a place for it. It's just in a place where I can't get there without hurting myself. If the backhoe was still alive, I could pluck it outta there.. But it's dead and I'm just not able to fight that fight. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by Dave on 11/08/24 at 03:21:42 58595C4E4D4E415C44462F0 wrote:
I have a couple of carbs that I could sell - one is nearly new and only has a few hundred miles on it and is like new (except it needs a choke assembly as the plastic was cracked somehow). The other one is in good shape but a bit older. PM me and we can discuss their condition and prices. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by Dave on 11/08/24 at 03:26:26 5F6A79617A7D796A7C180 wrote:
Thanks for thinking of me.....I bought a clutch cover from eBay and it should arrive this week. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by ThumperPaul on 11/08/24 at 06:45:28 Tiptop, if you return to your post and read this, you have a lot of info and options to consider above. I hope I’ve been helpful, and I’m sorry this became something of a circus with extraneous activity. If you decide to install the VM36 carb that you bought on eBay, try reaching out to Lancer about buying a custom Barnett throttle cable he sells with his VM36 carb kit. Here’s a link to a UNI filter that will work (correct diameter boot mount and length fit). It mounts directly to the carb and you can just delete the snorkel tube to the air box. As DragBikeMike schooled me, just leave the stock air filter in the air box so it can continue to filter the air going to the engine through the vent tube. For jetting the VM36, try starting with a #20 pilot jet, #190 main jet, and the e-clip in the middle grove on the needle. That will at least get you in a good place to start and you can consider a #200 main jet from there (depending on your muffler type). Good luck! https://www.ebay.com/itm/156295677827?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=B1BsWP2CTxG&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=E09oxHAHSqa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by tippytop on 11/09/24 at 01:57:14 Good morning All! I appreciate all the feedback. So I started my return to the seller on ebay as well as the flange I got for it. I guess that was the only part number i became familiar with on this site so i ran with that. I've been searching for a stock on line based on thumpers part description/# and have had zero luck. I have taken this stock carb off three times over the last several months so i feel comfortable with removal but have not pulled jets out only made it to the float assembly before turning back and running for the hills. Well, of course the bike hasn't really run the same since and i did put a generic seal on the float cover and I did change the spark plug to a newer style which i had to remove the tip from....NOT very KATA like. It really wasn't until recently I realized the air/fuel mixture screw was what appears now drilled out. I can only assume to remove the brass cap and they went too deep...? Either way there is no way to adjust now. This was the one reason for the new carb purchase. I thought i was having some petcock issues so ended up ordering 3 of those, none the stock valve, but all looked like it... the final one being the raptor which was on the bike for one day and put stock on back on. I will slow roll this and return the VM and take Jog up on his offer this weekend. I love riding this bike and starting to enjoy working on it as i become more familiar with what means what. I hope to graduae one day to the header...lol Sorry for the book, but do appreicate all the feedback. How much should one pay for a working carb? |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by tippytop on 11/09/24 at 02:03:53 BTW - the reason for the deisred air/fuel valve adjustment is the decelerate shoot out occurring at every stop sign and every stop light. I hang my head in shame each time or change my pilot out to a larger jet but may as well get new carb at that point so i have all functional adjustments. And the choke functionality I did understand the 3 gates on it and it works correct, it's just my patience or concen about it reving so high on the partial open that i take I close it after about 15-20 seconds. But i'll adjust. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by JOG on 11/09/24 at 06:00:42 I'm gonna PM you my phone number. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by JOG on 11/09/24 at 09:53:46 Tippy had Otta be here in a few minutes.. We're gonna get that guy up and running if it goes to plan. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by ohiomoto on 11/09/24 at 17:33:06 For backfires... Make sure your idle is adjusted correctly. It should be set around 1100 rpm. A 550 bpm metronome can approximate the idle speed. If it's too low, it will backfire more on deceleration than if it is a little too high. The guy I bought my bike from had it jetted overly rich and it backfired much worse than it did with stock jetting. You shouldn't need more than a 50/150 pilot/main on the people unless you are riding in Antarctica or below sea level. Some amount of "afterfire" is considered normal with these bikes. My bike will "snap-crackle-n-pops" when ridden hard before it's warmed up or when temperatures are below ~50 degrees, but mostly goes away once warmed up. For reference, I commute on my bike. Temperatures can range from the mid-30s in the mornings to the upper-90s in the afternoons. Elevations range between 600-1100 feet above sea level. That's been my experience anyway. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by JOG on 11/09/24 at 19:49:51 Tippy has an open header,no muffler. Nobody has ever gotten a carburetor to work with that set-up that I'm aware of. He left with a carburetor jetted to run with a Dyna. Cleaned up and ready to ride. We're hoping for good weather next Saturday to go for a ride. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by ThumperPaul on 11/10/24 at 05:00:51 That’s great! The bike will run with an open header. It’s extremely loud and obnoxious, but it will run. My butt dyno said performance suffered, but it’s so loud you think you’re really moving (because louder is faster, ya know! Lol). I couldn’t resist - I had to try the open pipe in the process of installing a dyna. My neighbors really didn’t like me that day. Tippy, I’ll have a pair of nice dyna mufflers in my possession in the next few weeks. I just need to pick them up from my son-in-law. If you don’t find a muffler before then, I’ll be asking $40/each plus like $15-$20 for shipping. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by tippytop on 11/10/24 at 21:09:47 thanks for the tips Ohio! So met up with Jog yesterday and we talked alot about things but mostly riding. We got the carb out and he schooled me on cleaining. He knows more than he leads on to thats for sure. Got it home pretty late yesterday so waiting to install it today. Once installed i choked it and hit the starter....nothing....maybe i didn't put enough gas in so i put more in, hit the start and nothing...now i'm nervous....i sit and then i decidde to crank the throttle on start and boom! she turns over and is running...i ddin't wait long and got on the road...then i ran out of gas...but remembered i had reserve so straight to the gas station and then for a cool evening ride....I did go back to the raptor petcock, wanted to go back to old plug but didn't and the backfire has all but vanished....now it's still there but it doesn't sound like a devils night in detroit or a DC 4th of July. still there but barely and compared to few days ago....my neighbors were clapping as rounded the corner and i'm sure in morning they'll be doing the same....jk about that part. Sp pretty happy so far. Jog reccommended i swap back to the dyna muffler but i stuck with the short pipe and it's breathing decent...i think. Now a feel some slipping in the clutch. Thanks for all the help y'all! See ya soon Jog. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by JOG on 11/10/24 at 21:31:10 Make sure you have slack in the clutch cable. The lever needs to wiggle. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by ThumperPaul on 11/11/24 at 04:17:28 That’s great! Can you share a pic of your exhaust? Do you have any type of muffler or just a header? I’ve tried a couple short open mufflers on previous S40s. They were still loud, but not open headed loud. Like JOG said about the clutch free play. You should be able to wedge a quarter in the gap at the lever and perch and it should try to fall out. If it will bite down on the quarter and hold it in there, you need more free play. Hopefully you didn’t put car motor oil in it. The friction modifiers in that stuff will cause the clutch to slip. You need motorcycle specific oil that has the JASO MA/MA2 approval or “meets or exceeds” language on the product container description. Shell Rotella T4 (Heavy Duty Diesel Oil) is good stuff and meets or exceeds JASO MA/MA2 requirements for being wet clutch safe. It also has a healthy dose of ZDDP in it - 15W-40. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by ohiomoto on 11/11/24 at 05:24:25 My clutch has slipped a little since I've owned it when ridden hard before it's warmed up. It's strong once warmed up. (It does a good job of keeping me from disturbing the neighbors when I leave for work at 6:30 am. lol) I would start by following Paul's advise on the clutch and see it it helps. I also run Dyna mufflers. I have a bone stock one on my bike now. It's pretty quiet and maybe a little restricted but I'm happy with it. The one the bike when I got it had three holes drilled into the "plug". It sounded nice and preformed great. Eventually the center of the plug cracked and fell out. It got a little loud for my tastes and I experienced more snap-crackle-n-pops, but it wasn't too obnoxious and the bike ran okay. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by JOG on 11/11/24 at 19:49:19 Eaux Neaux.. I screwed up. We got everything cleaned up, proved jets were open and Tippy was getting ready to go and he was concerned that the slide might need lube. My brain was not engaged,, I agreed and handed him a can of spray lube. Dammitall.. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by tippytop on 11/11/24 at 21:08:35 oh crap...i figured it was loose so i tightened it. Will undo that in monring... |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by tippytop on 11/11/24 at 21:14:23 we didn't put much lube on tho, will it really hurt anything? also think the choke is broken...is that a simple swap out? i can pull my old one off it's in great shape. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by tippytop on 11/11/24 at 21:19:05 another tailpipe pic...lol |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by tippytop on 11/11/24 at 21:28:07 won't let me post another pic...i'll trt tomorrow. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by JOG on 11/11/24 at 22:13:34 What is the choke doing/not doing? |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by ThumperPaul on 11/12/24 at 04:55:24 Yeah, you can only upload 1 pic per post. So, you have to do multiple posts. I’m not familiar with that particular muffler (or tailpipe). Does it have any baffle in it? You might be able to install an aftermarket baffle in it if it’s too loud for you and the neighbors. I’ve had 2 that were similar to that (no baffle). They were pretty loud but not unbearable. I’m not following the story very well…”getting ready to go and decided the slide might need some lube”? How did you make this determination? Did y’all then pull off the top of the carb, remove the slide, and spray it down with lube? What kind of lube? I’m also not getting what got “tightened down”. Yes, swapping the choke is fairly simple plug and play. Why are y’all lubing the slide (is it sticking)? Was it black on one side and bare metal (worn off black) on the other side? The black coating is some form of lubricant. A light amount of lube won’t “hurt it”, but it’s a bandaid fix at best and won’t last very long. If it was my bike, I’d consider a new slide or a used one in really good condition. But as you’ve already figured out, used parts or new aftermarket parts for the Mikuni BS40SS carb are hard to find. Getting closer! I’m sure JOG has your back! Happy carb rebuilding! Fun stuff! Very satisfying once completed successfully! |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by tippytop on 11/12/24 at 21:49:58 well it's good thing i have another on the shelf now to strip down and learn some more. no baffle in the pipe....i'll send pic of one small black i found for $40, like to get ya'll opinion. yeah the lube on the slide was me asking an ignorant question if it needed lube in general, and jog said hold on....let me get my lube...gave her one good shot and done... so i did loosen the clutch lever...should i loosen the nuts down by the sped cable too? OH and seems backfire is back just a touch on decel' in 4th and 5th gear...little sputtery in accelerate, but the clutch isnt slipping as of now... the choke on new carb just isn't working at all=....to start i have to work the throttle until she warms up after about a minute then i can walk away and get my gear on. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by JOG on 11/12/24 at 22:14:10 Leaving it idling on the stand starves the cam of oil. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by ThumperPaul on 11/13/24 at 04:59:11 To adjust the clutch cable, you generally make small adjustments at the lever/perch. You’re fine if you have it set with a little free play as previously mentioned. Large clutch cable adjustments would need to be made at the other end using the “large adjustment” adjuster. You generally would not make the adjustment here unless you have run out of adjustability at the lever/perch. That said, some people prefer to adjust down there rather than at the lever/perch. When you run out of adjustability at both ends, your cable needs replacement. In reality, the cable would likely fray or break before you run out of adjustability at both ends. I’ll let you work out the non-working choke with JOG. If y’all didn’t clean that area and circuit, it’s probably just stuck and not broke. You could/should clean it up, reinstall, or install the choke off your old carb. You gotta figure out why it’s not working - is it because it’s dirty in there? Or because the choke is just toast. If it’s dirty in there, neither choke may function properly. Putting a good clean part in an infected hole = dysfunction. With a short open exhaust pipe without baffle, it’s virtually impossible to eliminate all afterburn (snap crackle, pop, bang, boom, pow) on deceleration. JOG said it was jetted for a Dyna muffler, and that’s probably fine. BUT has the “white spacer mod” been done on the slide needle? The best known fix for reducing afterburn on deceleration is to raise the needle by reducing the thickness of the shim (white spacer) or replacing the white spacer with a “couple” thinner washers. More here —> http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1104205157 I’m still not grasping why it was felt necessary to lube the slide. Was it just a random question or was there some kind of perceived performance issue (perhaps poor throttle response) that you thought lubing the slide would alleviate? When you had the carb taken apart, did the slide show wear - exposed bare metal where the black coating was worn off? Again, I’m unclear why the lube job. Even with a good slide with its nice slick black coating intact, the slide can stick if the slide bore is dirty from like old gas varnish buildup on the walls. Same analogy - nice clean part trying to go up and down in an infected hole = dysfunction. Lubing the good part won’t cure the infection. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by tippytop on 11/13/24 at 22:16:11 yeah great advice pual, we took the float cover off and clean all that thouroughly and buttoned her up....when i was leaving...and this was my first lesson on a carb of any sort...i noticed the slide mechanism and figured it would be a lubed part so i asked...and we had a case of beer down us so he just haded me the can of spray and off we go. lol it went soemthing like that. I'm down with getting into the spacer part and needle positioning....i may as well pull it yet again if i'm going to clean out the choke to diagnos that problem... Any way to aovid emptying the tank every time i pull the carb? and getting the rubber sleeve over that airbox after being in the intake to engine is not an easy task....kids aren't allowed around when that moment is occuring. lol |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by DragBikeMike on 11/14/24 at 01:35:43 Sounds like you guys have pretty much whipped that carb into submission. Congratulations. Who's who in the picture? |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by JOG on 11/14/24 at 02:49:37 Yeah, I'm guilty of being a dumbass. Tippy did the work, we cleaned the bowl, proved the jets were open, and I thought it was a fully functioning carburetor. The slide ,that whole part, we didn't open. He was getting ready to go, and reached in and slid the slide up and asked Should we lube this? Yeaaaahhh,, well,, I didn't remember how fingerprints were oil and could cause a slide to hang up.. And dang if I didn't hand him a can of spray lube.. Dammitall.. Totally wasn't thinking. We're supposed to go riding. There's a road just loaded with curves not far from here. I've been wanting to hit it on this bike, and I'm hoping to get Tippy running Right and show him that road. |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by ThumperPaul on 11/14/24 at 04:08:03 Sounds like a plan, and it sounds like a thorough cleaning is in order and a white spacer mod. Gotta get that carb cleaner in every passage, let it soak, use carb cleaning brushes in the passages where you can, and blow it out with an air compressor with a small nozzle. But y’all probably know that. The “spray lube” y’all applied to the slide was probably washed off with gas sucking through there and sucked into the combustion chamber within the first 10 minutes. It probably ran a little rough, searched to find even idle, maybe a little smokey, and the spark plug might be a little fouled depending on what kind of “lube” y’all used. Touching the slide with your oily fingers won’t hurt it, but some good rubber gloves are always highly recommended when playing with carb cleaner and other toxic stuff. Likewise, a 12-pack of beer and riding probably isn’t a good idea. The petcock valve has an “off” position. Try using that nifty feature instead of draining the tank. I still can’t figure out how you “notice the slide” after you’re on the bike and the carb is fully assembled. I’ll step away from the keyboard now. Good luck guys. Over and out! |
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Title: Re: what style or model is this mikuni? Post by ohiomoto on 11/14/24 at 18:08:19 445D47595E5543300 wrote:
--------------------------- Sounds like progress. There is no good reason to idle the bike. It will warm up as you ride it. Gear up, start the bike, and go. Make sure the carburetor is sorted out before chasing performance. Get the choke fixed, and get the sputtering cleared up. That's how I would go about it anyway. Good luck. |
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