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Message started by Gary_in_NJ on 05/04/25 at 07:22:40

Title: Unlucky Lottery?
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/04/25 at 07:22:40

Starter solenoid is making a very healthy clicking sound. Here are the facts:

1. Bike started great last weekend. I washed the bike, then started the bike to give it short dry-off ride
2. The next day I only get a very healthy clicking from the starter solenoid. Check voltage (13.8 from LiFePo4 battery). Based on the rapid clicking of the solenoid and the good voltage on the battery, I order a new Solenoid from Amazon.
3. Today I install the new Solenoid - same result.
4. Is it the Starter? I put direct power from a spare battery on the the terminals and the starter cranks as usual - not the starter.
5. Is it the battery? I take the spare battery and use it as a jump battery - once again I only get clicking.
6. I checked all of the wires in the starting chain for corrosion and all are good.
7. I know the bike runs fine because I push started it (and rode it for 5 miles).

So here is the question - did I win the unlucky solenoid lottery, or am I missing something? Is there a (safe) way to check the solenoid?

Title: Re: Unlucky Lottery?
Post by Fast 650 on 05/04/25 at 09:39:07

You said that it cranks okay if you connect a battery directly to the starter. Have you checked the voltage at the starter when you press the starter button? You might have a wire making a bad connection that isn't allowing enough current to crank the starter.

Title: Re: Unlucky Lottery?
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/04/25 at 10:44:35

Good test to run Fast.

With the starter engaged I see 13+VDC at the battery and between 2-6VDC at the starter motor. I also noted a 0.22VDC leakage at the starter motor without the starter engaged. I'm guessing that the leakage it at the coil in the solenoid (probably normal).

So the solenoid isn't passing the current to the starter - not surprising since the starter isn't turning and the solenoid sounds like a rivet gut - I'm about 99% sure it's a crap-o-matic Amazon special solenoid and not something deeper in the harness.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: Unlucky Lottery?
Post by oldNslow on 05/04/25 at 11:22:14

" I'm about 99% sure it's a crap-o-matic Amazon special solenoid and not something deeper in the harness.

Thoughts?"

Based on my experience with Amazon automotive and motorcycle replacement parts, especially anything electrical or electronic, I'm 99% sure you're correct.

If the Amazon part was 1/3 or less than the price of the OEM I'd be willing to bump my opinion up to 100%.

Title: Re: Unlucky Lottery?
Post by verslagen1 on 05/04/25 at 11:31:01

505A5E545F56525B050307370 wrote:

With the starter engaged I see 13+VDC at the battery and between 2-6VDC at the starter motor. I also noted a 0.22VDC leakage at the starter motor without the starter engaged. I'm guessing that the leakage it at the coil in the solenoid (probably normal).

Ok,
1. you got good voltage at the battery and it doesn't go to crap when you push the button... right?
2. you push the button, it doesn't start and it starts clicking... which means the whole system voltage goes to crap. SO, bad cable or connection.

If system voltage didn't go flat, then the solenoid would remain engaged and the starter would grunt.

Title: Re: Unlucky Lottery?
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/04/25 at 16:48:12

Yeah, what I'm seeing is that the voltage to the solenoid is good @ 13+VDC but only a few VDC is making past the dithering solenoid - I'm basically getting a PWM voltage.

Amazon Solenoid was $12 and the OEM is $97 - Using oldNslow's rule of thumb...I won the unlucky lottery.

I'll update this when I get another solenoid.

Title: Re: Unlucky Lottery?
Post by Fast 650 on 05/04/25 at 22:33:36

72787C767D747079272125150 wrote:

Yeah, what I'm seeing is that the voltage to the solenoid is good @ 13+VDC but only a few VDC is making past the dithering solenoid - I'm basically getting a PWM voltage.

Okay, one more thing to check before you shuck out the cash for another solenoid. You get low voltage at the starter. Check that wire at the solenoid. If you get the same low voltage there, it is the solenoid. If you get 13 volts, then it is the wire.

Title: Re: Unlucky Lottery?
Post by Dave on 05/05/25 at 03:58:46

It isn't all that uncommon for the ground strap down to the engine to come loose or get corroded.

Title: Re: Unlucky Lottery?
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/05/25 at 06:50:20

I did check the ground behind the engine on the frame. I actually had a corrosion/connection problem there a few years ago after a wash.

The problem does seem (to me) to be connected to the wash...and to have the exact problem with two solenoids is odd. I will recheck the grounds again to rule them out.

Title: Re: Unlucky Lottery?
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/05/25 at 12:53:22

Just to rule out a ground issue, using a jumper cable I ran a connection from the battery directly to the starter motor mount.

Same result.

Title: Re: Unlucky Lottery?
Post by Dave on 05/06/25 at 07:52:48

If you disconnect the positive wire to the starter, then hit the start button - does the solenoid just click once and stay engaged? Does the full voltage reach the opposite side of the solenoid....and also the unhooked starter wire? (If so - then I suspect that something is going crazy when the starter creates the big current draw).

It seems a bit unlikely to me that your reliable solenoid and a new replacement would both have the identical malfunction internally - I suspect something is wrong outside the solenoid that is creating the issue.

Have you tried bypassing the starter circuit and cycling the solenoid by running jumper wires directly to the small terminals - or measured the voltage input to the small terminals when the "clicking" is going on?

The fact that both relays go: "click, click, click, click" is an indicator to me that the voltage is sufficient to close the solenoid - but when the solenoid activates and closes the starter circuit the voltage drops below what is required for the solenoid to stay closed......then as soon as the relay drops out the voltage is sufficient to close it again. This could either be an insufficient voltage supply to the relay - or a "short" of some kind that is drawing a lot of power out of the battery, or a corrosion issue in the wiring circuit. (You might want to look at the connectors under the front of the fuel tank on both sides - those can get corrosion and cause problems).

If the wire to the starter from the relay

Title: Re: Unlucky Lottery?
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/06/25 at 11:30:42

Good input and diagnostic suggestions. I will check all of these before swapping a 3rd solenoid.

One question - when you say "or measured the voltage input to the small terminals when the "clicking" is going on" - aren't the small pins on the solenoid a ground closure?

Title: Re: Unlucky Lottery?
Post by Dave on 05/06/25 at 12:25:57

606A6E646F66626B353337070 wrote:

One question - when you say "or measured the voltage input to the small terminals when the "clicking" is going on" - aren't the small pins on the solenoid a ground closure?

I believe the black/white wire is connected to the ground circuit. If you test this wire to the negative terminal of the battery you should get "0" resistance with the wire unplugged.....and "0" voltage.

The yellow/black wire goes to the decompression controller and should energize once the starter button is pushed. With the wire disconnected you should get "0" voltage - until you press the starter button. Then you should get the full battery voltage (with or without the wire connected to the solenoid).