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Message started by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 02:04:21

Title: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 02:04:21

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/103UkabW7N4

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by WebsterMark on 07/18/25 at 04:53:54

I can post a video too. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ99GBGtb2Q&pp=ygUZSXNyYWVsIGhhcyByaWdoeWZ1bCBjbGFpbQ%3D%3D

Bottom line, there’s only one side perpetuating this war/conflict: Arab states using the Palestinians as sacrificial pawns in their war on Jews. Right now, Hamas is doing their dirty work aided by some bazaar phenomenon, where the popular and entertainment cultures have grabbed ahold of the Palestinians as innocent victims and Israel as Darth Vader or something.

Do you want this to end? Tell the Palestinian people to rise up against Hamas and Arab states. Otherwise, they’re doomed and it’s their own fault.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 06:11:38

I see it differently.

Israelis have an expansionist drive, a collective trauma, and from that pain, they are aggressive toward anything that threatens them in any way.

The promised land is known in the Bible as Canaan, which corresponds to an area that now encompasses Israel, the West Bank, and parts of Lebanon and Syria.
It was in the Bible, but "the promised land" was never Jesus' words, and what is happening now in Gaza is entirely in the name of the Israelis themselves.

The true promised land is a spiritual state of being, which is instantly available when someone enters.

The whole promised land thing is a misunderstanding, used now and in the last century as an excuse/pretext/nonsense story to bring Jews to present-day Israel. It was colonial England that approved of conquering land, and the idea originated with them. Combined with the Jewish mindset, the desire for expansion, clever business, and seeing themselves as the chosen people, this cocktail of ideas creates a deadly combination.

They are the Hitler they armed themselves against to ensure that no Hitler would ever rise again to harm them.

They never seriously intended to live peacefully alongside the Palestinians.

I used to have a friend who lived in a kibbutz because she found it idealistic, but she came back with stories about the seizure of land from Palestinians, where Palestinians who were killed were buried in orchards with a cutting of a tree on top because the soil wasn't fertile. And that's the history of Israel, and that's why they're so hated in the Middle East, and this mentality still exists collectively.

And their attitude is, "We are the promised people, we will use you as we see fit, and given what was done to us, our ruthlessness is justified."

In your video, they conveniently forget to mention that they were the ones who crucified Jesus.

So what right do they have to use a book about enlightenment to conquer and commit genocide?

I could also draft a mandate in a large building with a lot of fanfare and have it signed by the international community.

But I'm not impressed. That same international community is now fiercely opposed to what's happening in Gaza, and their official bodies are labeling it as genocide.

Even now, the Trump administration and Israel are manipulating the entire world to revolt against Israel.

Wars are currently being used to gain geopolitical leverage, and that's what bombing Iran actually entailed.

You come up with a video from the Club 700, featuring a fake preacher/media entrepreneur.
But I'm sophisticated enough to see right through that. And I see religion as nothing more than a tool for power.

And that's because I see the difference between religion and true spirituality, which, by the way, is pure unconditional love.
So explain to me, how people get the idea to use tat as an excuse to commit genoside.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 07:06:34

Do you want this to end? Tell the Palestinian people to rise up against Hamas and Arab states. Otherwise, they’re doomed and it’s their own fault.

Israel is pulling your leg. The whole "episijn" affair could well consist of spying on and blackmailing high-ranking officials, including Trump.

How will this end? Not with a genocidal attack. The Arab world will never forgive this, and the rest of the world will never forget it.

How will it end? History is difficult, so the future will be difficult. So what?The way right now, is for America to stop Israel.
And draw the line.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by MnSpring on 07/18/25 at 07:36:30

3C2330232823282334212F23460 wrote:

"... Israel is pulling your leg ..."

So the October 7 attacks, the first invasion of Israeli territory since the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

Means NOTHING to you ?

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by WebsterMark on 07/18/25 at 07:36:35

796675666D666D6671646A66030 wrote:

I see it differently.

Israelis have an expansionist drive, a collective trauma, and from that pain, they are aggressive toward anything that threatens them in any way. Raping and torturing women and children is more than threatening….

The promised land is known in the Bible as Canaan, which corresponds to an area that now encompasses Israel, the West Bank, and parts of Lebanon and Syria.
It was in the Bible, but "the promised land" was never Jesus' words, and what is happening now in Gaza is entirely in the name of the Israelis themselves.

The true promised land is a spiritual state of being, which is instantly available when someone enters.

The whole promised land thing is a misunderstanding, used now and in the last century as an excuse/pretext/nonsense story to bring Jews to present-day Israel. It was colonial England that approved of conquering land, and the idea originated with them. Combined with the Jewish mindset, the desire for expansion, clever business, and seeing themselves as the chosen people, this cocktail of ideas creates a deadly combination.

They are the Hitler they armed themselves against to ensure that no Hitler would ever rise again to harm them. It’s beyond pathetic to equate those two

They never seriously intended to live peacefully alongside the Palestinians.
Here, let me fix that for you: They, or no country, should consider living next to a neighboring country who repeatedly expresses a desire, and follows through with actions, to wipe them off the earth

I used to have a friend who lived in a kibbutz because she found it idealistic, but she came back with stories about the seizure of land from Palestinians, where Palestinians who were killed were buried in orchards with a cutting of a tree on top because the soil wasn't fertile. And that's the history of Israel, and that's why they're so hated in the Middle East, and this mentality still exists collectively.

And their attitude is, "We are the promised people, we will use you as we see fit, and given what was done to us, our ruthlessness is justified."

In your video, they conveniently forget to mention that they were the ones who crucified Jesus. Every one knows that, but so what?

So what right do they have to use a book about enlightenment to conquer and commit genocide? No one’s committing genocide. You can throw that word around all you want but it’s not true

I could also draft a mandate in a large building with a lot of fanfare and have it signed by the international community.

But I'm not impressed. That same international community is now fiercely opposed to what's happening in Gaza, and their official bodies are labeling it as genocide.

Even now, the Trump administration and Israel are manipulating the entire world to revolt against Israel.

Wars are currently being used to gain geopolitical leverage, and that's what bombing Iran actually entailed.

You come up with a video from the Club 700, featuring a fake preacher/media entrepreneur.

But I'm sophisticated enough to see right through that. And I see religion as nothing more than a tool for power.

And that's because I see the difference between religion and true spirituality, which, by the way, is pure unconditional love.
So explain to me, how people get the idea to use tat as an excuse to commit genoside.

I grabbed the first video that came up, I didn’t even watch it. Point is, I can find any video to refute another video.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by WebsterMark on 07/18/25 at 07:39:56

607F6C7F747F747F687D737F1A0 wrote:

You mean return to the conditions in place on October 6th? No thanks.

Here’s the solution. Kick everyone out of Gaza. Make those Arab countries who pretend to be so upset at the plight of the Palestinians, take them in. Then bulldoze everything into the ocean. Irrigated the land, build it up, civilize it, and don’t let anybody in who is even remotely anti-somatic which I’m afraid would include you based upon your ridiculous Hitler, comparisons and claims of genocide.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 08:31:25

586A6D7C7B6A7D426E7D640F0 wrote:

[quote author=796675666D666D6671646A66030 link=1752829462/0#2 date=1752844298]I see it differently.

Israelis have an expansionist drive, a collective trauma, and from that pain, they are aggressive toward anything that threatens them in any way. Raping and torturing women and children is more than threatening….

The promised land is known in the Bible as Canaan, which corresponds to an area that now encompasses Israel, the West Bank, and parts of Lebanon and Syria.
It was in the Bible, but "the promised land" was never Jesus' words, and what is happening now in Gaza is entirely in the name of the Israelis themselves.

The true promised land is a spiritual state of being, which is instantly available when someone enters.

The whole promised land thing is a misunderstanding, used now and in the last century as an excuse/pretext/nonsense story to bring Jews to present-day Israel. It was colonial England that approved of conquering land, and the idea originated with them. Combined with the Jewish mindset, the desire for expansion, clever business, and seeing themselves as the chosen people, this cocktail of ideas creates a deadly combination.

They are the Hitler they armed themselves against to ensure that no Hitler would ever rise again to harm them. It’s beyond pathetic to equate those two

They never seriously intended to live peacefully alongside the Palestinians.
Here, let me fix that for you: They, or no country, should consider living next to a neighboring country who repeatedly expresses a desire, and follows through with actions, to wipe them off the earth

I used to have a friend who lived in a kibbutz because she found it idealistic, but she came back with stories about the seizure of land from Palestinians, where Palestinians who were killed were buried in orchards with a cutting of a tree on top because the soil wasn't fertile. And that's the history of Israel, and that's why they're so hated in the Middle East, and this mentality still exists collectively.

And their attitude is, "We are the promised people, we will use you as we see fit, and given what was done to us, our ruthlessness is justified."

In your video, they conveniently forget to mention that they were the ones who crucified Jesus. Every one knows that, but so what?
You can't just go around nailing people to the cross. That's what this whole discussion is about.

So what right do they have to use a book about enlightenment to conquer and commit genocide? No one’s committing genocide. You can throw that word around all you want but it’s not true

I could also draft a mandate in a large building with a lot of fanfare and have it signed by the international community.

But I'm not impressed. That same international community is now fiercely opposed to what's happening in Gaza, and their official bodies are labeling it as genocide.

Even now, the Trump administration and Israel are manipulating the entire world to revolt against Israel.

Wars are currently being used to gain geopolitical leverage, and that's what bombing Iran actually entailed.

You come up with a video from the Club 700, featuring a fake preacher/media entrepreneur.

But I'm sophisticated enough to see right through that. And I see religion as nothing more than a tool for power.

And that's because I see the difference between religion and true spirituality, which, by the way, is pure unconditional love.
So explain to me, how people get the idea to use tat as an excuse to commit genoside.

I grabbed the first video that came up, I didn’t even watch it. Point is, I can find any video to refute another video.[/quote]Just take a good look.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 09:27:42

41625F7C7E65626B0C0 wrote:

[quote author=3C2330232823282334212F23460 link=1752829462/0#3 date=1752847594]"... Israel is pulling your leg ..."

So the October 7 attacks, the first invasion of Israeli territory since the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

Means NOTHING to you ?

All my life here in the Netherlands, I've seen documentaries on TV, in the news, and in newspapers, show how Israel misbehaves with its neighbors. I had an Iranian diplomat as a client. I've heard the other side of the coin. And I've had several experiences with Israeli soldiers myself, seeing how they broke the shoulders of Palestinian children under eight for throwing stones. My stomach turned.
So I don't think much of Israeli tactics, and I've seen the desperation of the Palestinians.

That doesn't mean I approve of it, but it seemed inevitable to me.
[/quote]

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by WebsterMark on 07/18/25 at 09:41:38

Did you ever consider that all your life, all those documentaries you’ve seen, have been propaganda and unfairly slanted to portray the Palestinians as innocent victims as opposed to victims of Arab states? Did those documentaries mention the leader ship of nearby Arab states funding terrorist activities in Israel. Does it occur to you that the Palestinian people have been turned into pawns?

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by thumperclone on 07/18/25 at 10:49:48

Most Arab states don't recognize Israels' right to exist...

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 10:52:34

Did you ever consider that all your life, all those documentaries you've seen, have been propaganda and unfairly slanted to portray the Palestinians as innocent victims, as opposed to victims of Arab states? Did those documentaries mention the leadership of nearby Arab states funding terrorist activities in Israel? Does it occur to you that the Palestinian people have been turned into pawns?

No, I have a fairly neutral view of the matter, but I doubt you do. For example, I'm watching a video you sent because I'm interested in what shapes your opinion. My perceived reality is quite broad.
But I'm also fairly familiar with the Arab world. My girlfriend studied Arabic, and I know people from the Sufi movement. And I know the dark side of the Arabs quite well.

And I know that the entry of the Jews into the promised land caused them a lot of resentment, and how that does not resonates with their culture.

The Israeli state was simply a bad idea. My view of the Palestinian case differs from yours, and I live in The Hague, where the International Criminal Court is located, and they hase ruled that Israel is committing genocide. However, the trial hasn't yet been held. There is overwhelming evidence for it. Amnesty International is also very clear about it.

Why do you doubt it? You see what's happening yourself, or don't you? Or is it not in the news where you are?

An entire population is being systematically exterminated. And if you think that's a good thing, you should go and see it. Because maybe it will dawn on you.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by MnSpring on 07/18/25 at 11:50:20

46594A59525952594E5B55593C0 wrote:

"... An entire population is being systematically exterminated. ..."

Yet it is perfectly OK for Arab states, funding/encouraging, killing/capturing, Israels.

OK, got it.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by Eegore on 07/18/25 at 12:35:53

I live in The Hague, where the International Criminal Court is located, and they hase ruled that Israel is committing genocide. However, the trial hasn't yet been held. There is overwhelming evidence for it. Amnesty International is also very clear about it.

No they haven't. The ICC has considered genocide a situation of being "plausible rights to protection from genocide" which is not a conclusion or ruling by definition. What "The Media" typically reports is that genocide is "plausible" - which is intentionally misleading.

Then people go one more step and say there is an actual genocide ruling which is false.

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/CourtRecords/0902ebd1809a40bf.pdf

In regard to the South African allegations of genocide:

At this stage of the proceedings, the Court is not called upon to determine definitively whether the rights which South Africa wishes to see protected exist. It need only decide whether the rights claimed by South Africa, and for which it is seeking protection, are plausible.

In the Court’s view, the facts and circumstances are sufficient to conclude that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by WebsterMark on 07/18/25 at 13:23:40

627D6E7D767D767D6A7F717D180 wrote:

Did you ever consider that all your life, all those documentaries you've seen, have been propaganda and unfairly slanted to portray the Palestinians as innocent victims, as opposed to victims of Arab states? Did those documentaries mention the leadership of nearby Arab states funding terrorist activities in Israel? Does it occur to you that the Palestinian people have been turned into pawns?

No, I have a fairly neutral view of the matter, but I doubt you do. For example, I'm watching a video you sent because I'm interested in what shapes your opinion. I told you, I didn’t watch it, was the first thing that popped upMy perceived reality is quite broad.
But I'm also fairly familiar with the Arab world. My girlfriend studied Arabic, and I know people from the Sufi movement. And I know the dark side of the Arabs quite well.

And I know that the entry of the Jews into the promised land caused them a lot of resentment, and how that does not resonates with their culture.

The Israeli state was simply a bad idea. My view of the Palestinian case differs from yours, and I live in The Hague, where the International Criminal Court is located, and they hase ruled that Israel is committing genocide. However, the trial hasn't yet been held. There is overwhelming evidence for it. Amnesty International is also very clear about it.

Why do you doubt it? You see what's happening yourself, or don't you? Or is it not in the news where you are?

An entire population is being systematically exterminated. that’s simply not true. I don’t know how many times I have to tell you this. If they wanted them, exterminated, they would already be gone.And if you think that's a good thing, you should go and see it. Because maybe it will dawn on you.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/18/25 at 13:46:51

The very idea that you think you can do whatever you want in the world because you have a powerful army.

You'll be mistaken about Taiwan if it comes to that. China is truly a formidable opponent.

The time when America was supremely powerful is over. The world no longer consists of disconnected continents. All business life is intertwined, and everything is connected, everything is seen. The time of great strong leaders is over.

Grow up.

Israel's current government is an absolute nightmare. Just look at Netanyahu's idiotic face. You can't expect anything other than disastrous policies from them. That entire Israeli intelligence agency, Mossat, was set up to ensure that nothing would ever happen to the Jews again. That's a total disaster for humanity. They're manipulating the entire world.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by JOG on 07/18/25 at 14:58:09

That entire Israeli intelligence agency, Mossat, was set up to ensure that nothing would ever happen to the Jews again. That's a total disaster for humanity. They're manipulating the entire world.
More spies per square foot than anywhere else in the world, but I'm supposed to believe the Palestinians totally Nailed them.
The response time was effed up, and the Response included Tellin chopper pilots to Shoot anything moving.

Yeah,, killt a buncha their own.
Deception,, again

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by MnSpring on 07/18/25 at 19:42:21

77687B68636863687F6A64680D0 wrote:

"... Israel's current government is an absolute nightmare. ..."

NO ANSWER TO:

"So the October 7 attacks,
the first invasion
of Israeli territory
since the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.
Means NOTHING to you ?"

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/19/25 at 02:24:54

I answered that question by saying that I considered such a thing inevitable, but that I don't approve of it. I have no firm judgment on it because I don't see Israel as an innocent victim.
The situation in the Gaza Strip before the attack was dire. Israel thought it had found a good solution by oppressing the Palestinians, but that wasn't the case.

It happened, and that's it for me.

The same thing happened with the Twin Towers. Although the event itself was terrible and traumatic, I was deeply shocked by it at the time. I immediately saw the connection between the US's geopolice strategies in the world. You can't play the innocent victim if your conscience is bad. At least, that's not how it works for me. I look at your role.
If you ruffle a cat's feathers, you shouldn't complain that it bites you or condemn its actions. It happens, and you don't oppress it or kill its family. You don't burn down its nest either. Because you know that's the nature of the cat.

But I've read your opinion, and I think it's best to surrender your weapons because I don't trust you with them.
The chance that you won't take responsibility for the deadly climate you're creating in your neighborhood seems very real to me, and you don't understand that your neighbors are bothered by your oppressive behavior. And that scratch on your car was a bad thing, but you created it yourself. Only when you see that scratch, you only want one thing: to exterminate your neighbors.
That's why I think you should hand in your weapon. Because I don't think you'll ever understand that you can't just oppress your neighbors without consequences. You're in a perpetrator role, and it's very difficult to see through that or resolve it because you feel like a victim.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by MnSpring on 07/19/25 at 06:08:57

514E5D4E454E454E594C424E2B0 wrote:

Sounds like Mary Jane wrote that ::)

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/19/25 at 06:42:09

Do you mean the one who lives at 420, with that tasty bud?

I understand that you're not responding to the content and that you're belittling it.
Because it was spot on.

Be nice Mr, Spring.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by MnSpring on 07/19/25 at 07:07:23

How many, members of Hamas carried out a suicide bombings in Israel, killing/wounding, in indiscriminate attacks ?

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/19/25 at 08:00:48

22 attacks.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by MnSpring on 07/19/25 at 11:09:41

697665767D767D7661747A76130 wrote:

22 attacks.

Really.
I counted 160, from
Hamas, Fatah, and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

Yet, It is all Israels fault that TERRORISTS want to Kill all Israelite's.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/19/25 at 11:23:05

53704D6E6C7770791E0 wrote:

[quote author=697665767D767D7661747A76130 link=1752829462/15#22 date=1752937248]22 attacks.

Yet, It is all Israels fault that TERRORISTS want to Kill all Israelite's.

[/quote]
Yes. It,s a global hobby.

It was especially popular during World War II,
but it got a bit out of hand.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by Eegore on 07/19/25 at 11:35:08

I find the whole Israel is oppressing Palestinians and that's why they murder any Israeli they can and parade those bodies around as trophies a far reach for justifying those actions.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/19/25 at 14:43:50

I'm glad to hear that you're gradually but steadily standing up for the Palestinian cause.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by Eegore on 07/19/25 at 15:16:16

I'm glad to hear that you're gradually but steadily standing up for the Palestinian cause.

I don't know how you are making the comparison to the violence types and targets between the two.

Personally I would prefer Israel be eliminated just to get the whole thing resolved, and from an efficiency standpoint that's the most efficient. Move as many Israelis out as you can, then destroy the entire infrastructure.

Second I would eliminate Palestinians, but this means also most of the Middle East, so thats not as efficient.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/19/25 at 15:26:37

There you go....

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/20/25 at 05:12:59

Have you tried considering a palestinian state?

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by Eegore on 07/20/25 at 07:31:57

Have you tried considering a palestinian state?

Yes. As long as all Israelis are dead, and eventually all Jews on the planet, it would work.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by WebsterMark on 07/20/25 at 08:51:03

736C7F6C676C676C7B6E606C090 wrote:

Have you tried considering a palestinian state?

The Palestinians could have their state if they would stop insist on killing Jews, and actually work to develop a prosperous society.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/21/25 at 04:35:25

The Palestinians could have their state if they stopped insisting on killing Jews and actually worked to develop a prosperous society.

Can you stop crime in America?
Let's give them a state, install a peace army, and spend the money you support Israel with to give them something to build on because they nothing but crushed concrete.

Then prosecute the Israeli government for war crimes and install a controlled government with foreign oversight for the next 25 years.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by WebsterMark on 07/21/25 at 04:58:00

66796A79727972796E7B75791C0 wrote:

I enjoy and respect many of your comments, but you’re support for the terrorist regime that rules the Palestinians and what can only be called an unjustified hatred for Israel means I’m done exchanging comments on this topic with you.

Title: Re: Israel?
Post by zevenenergie on 07/21/25 at 08:39:31

The Palestinians in Gaza are closely linked to Hamas, that's common knowledge; you can't separate them. So I think what you're doing is too easy. I'm rebelling against the genocide taking place there, which I see you denying.
There's no easy way out.
And to stop it, it has to be discussed and hard facts have to be presented.

It's very easy for Israel to starve a people to death (which, by the way, is a war crime).
Among me, 185 countries want a Palestinian state. Only America consistently vetoes it.
I don't support terrorism, so why should I stand 100% behind Israel?

But if you don't want to discuss it with me anymore, I respect that.