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Does this sound like overheating? (Read 5 times)
dangerdave
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Does this sound like overheating?
11/18/05 at 07:58:29
 
So my saga continues....

After some adjustments to the top end of my bike, including sealing the head cover plug leak, retorquing the cylinder head nuts, and rebuilding the carburetor, the bike seemed to be cured of its ailments.  After a few weeks, with the weather getting colder, I decided to go ahead with rejetting and a Sportster muffler installation.  The muffler installation was a breeze, sounds good, and seems to be free of leaks (I replace all gaskets and torqued everything correctly).

Rejetted to a 152.5 main, shaved the white spacer to half of its original thickness, and adjusted the idle screw as much as I could (the idle screw was stripped by a previous owner; am waiting for a replacement one--currently on infinite backorder).  I have a 55 pilot jet on order as well, and had planned to move up to that when it arrived.

Took the bike out for its first run yesterday:  everything seemed great, the bike had a nice mellow sound, and a nice shot of midrange power (no more lean surging at mid-RPM in second/third gear!).  I did maybe 10 minutes of stop and go riding around town (it was reasonably cool, in the high 40s) before heading home.

When I pulled into my driveway, I listened to the idle for the first time and noticed that it seemed to be loping a little.  Pulled on up, parked the bike in neutral and let it idle:  the idle became increasingly slow, until it seemed certain that it would die (interestingly, it never did), and the bike had a new backfire/pop when the throttle was blipped.

After listening for a few minutes, I shut the bike off, and noticed the amount of heat that seemed to be rising off the engine and exhaust.  Coming from the world of liquid-cooled bikes, I was, needless to say, alarmed to see heat rippling off the engine block after such a short ride, and to hear the ticking/hissing/squeaking noises that the engine made as it cooled (I guess, with this being a relatively new bike to me, I had never spent much time laying on the ground with my ear near the engine after I shut it off before now).

Of course, I immediately became concerned that the bike was, for some reason, overheating, causing it to run poorly.  My mind raced to the recent resealing of the head cover, and then to stealership urban legends about Permatex clogging oil journals/pumps, and then to bad experiences (years ago on dirtbikes) with gas getting into the oil and causing myriad lubrication/cooling problems.  I pulled the plug on the airbox drain (which I had been checking regularly after my carb rebuild) and observed that, after weeks of being dry, the airbox had a significant quantity of gas in it once again.  Also, I noticed gas running down the side of carb float bowl--I may have not seated the bowl correctly after rejetting, but it was hard to tell if the gas was leaking around the bowl gasket or from somewhere higher up on the carb.

So what think ye?  Obviously, it would be wise to check the oil for gas and change it, but there's clearly something going on here.  Is this overheating, or am I being paranoid due to a lack of experience (in other words, does anyone elses bike visibly radiate heat)?  Given that the stock carb was, as far as I can tell, fairly thoroughly mutilated by the previous owner, I've been thinking a new Mikuni VM from Lancer will be on the agenda as soon as I can scrape the cash together.  But I can't put out of my mind that the bike may be overheating.

Can any one put all of this together into some kind of consistent theory?  If the bike runs significantly worse when it gets hot, and the problem is not overheating, am I right to think that this points to an excessively rich mixture?  What about the backfiring?  Where to go next?
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SAMM
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Re: Does this sound like overheating?
Reply #1 - 11/18/05 at 10:12:25
 
Just my 2 cents :  Anytime you do engine repair or sometimes just a good cleaning, the engine will burn off the oils spilled left behind even what you cant see...


As for the carb. After it has been rolled around on the bench for repairs the float needle sometimes gets hung up and overflows fuel through the vent tubes onto the ground causing all kinds of running problems !!  After reinstalling a carb into its original position I tap on the float bowl slightly to center the needle...Position the fuel petcock on pri and see if the carb still leaks onto the ground....
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Does this sound like overheating?
Reply #2 - 11/19/05 at 08:37:41
 
Did you readjust the valves after you did the head cover/plug leak repair?  Just a thought....

As for the radiating heat...on a cool morning, I think that it is very likely to see the heat waves and the hear the contracting metal parts when the engine cools.  I wouldn't worry about that.

Did you readjust your idle speed screw on the right side?

If the idle is rough it might be running a little rich, which doesn't usually mean overheating.  Gas in the airbox?  Pull off the carb vent hose on the left side (lower side) and see if gas comes out of that hose nipple when the petc0ck is turned to PRI (vacuum off/gas on).  If gas flows out of there with the engine off, your floats are not working correctly and you may need to readjust them in the bowl.
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Capt._Capsize
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Re: Does this sound like overheating?
Reply #3 - 11/21/05 at 06:48:42
 
The only thing to make it overheat would be if it was running too lean but after your carb work it should be running richer so don't worry about it.  If it was lean enough to be a problem it would probably seize when running it hard.
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LANCER
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Re: Does this sound like overheating?
Reply #4 - 11/21/05 at 08:03:28
 
You have 2 things going on that I KNOW of right now, there may be others...but deal with these 2 first.  

1.  You were riding around and everything was working as advertised...you get home and the idle gets messed up.  As mentioned already the bowl jet is not working properly and is letting fuel flow into it nonstop...that is why the fuel was everywhere  when you stopped and why the idle was affected.  When you were riding the bike was using   enough fuel to stay ahead of it a bit, but when you stopped it was too much and affected the idle.  
From the bikes performance while riding there is no evidence of any other carb problem at this time.

2.  I do not think you have an overheating problem.  Being used to liquid cooled bikes you are not accustomed to the heat of an air cooled engine, which will heat up with just one ride around the block...especially if you are just doing a slow cruise.  The faster you ride, the more air there is to cool the engine...the slower you ride the less air to cool it.  You changed the exhaust and put in new gaskets...all of these things will react to the heat and will make the sounds you discribed when you stop.  As the engine/exhaust cools quickly afterward it will crackle/creak...normal cooling when new stuff has been added.    JUST RETORQUE THE EXHAUST BOLTS/CLAMPS...that should take care of it.  I change mufflers frequently and get those types of sounds a lot.  The hiss you mentioned is from some moisture being released somewhere...could be a new gasket that trapped some or maybe the fuel thing again...overflow and drip...need to get that taken care of right away if it is so.

You are doing good, watching and listening.  From what you have said so far it sounds like you are being very careful and paying attention to the details of your work, and with those habits it is not likely you have clogged any oil passages or such.   So be at peace with yourself, you did not hurt your Savage.  Fix the carb bowl valve and take another check ride.

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dangerdave
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Re: Does this sound like overheating?
Reply #5 - 11/21/05 at 10:09:24
 
Thanks for the tips, guys!  I have to do a valve adjustment soon anyway, so I'll be able to both check the valves and confirm that the top end is getting oil--this should put my fears of overheating to rest for good.  On the valves, my initial sense, from what I can tell by listening to things from outside the engine case, is that the recent stealership "adjustment" consisted of nothing more than torquing the rocker arm adjuster down as far as they would go against the valves at TDC and calling the job finished (why I ever let anyone else work on the bike in the first place is beyond me...).

Now my only decision is whether to even attempt to fix the stock carb, or simply to wait until the new one from Lancer arrives (its been too cold and rainy to ride around here this week anyway).  By the way, Lancer, did you get my message from this weekend?  Funds for the carb kit should be coming your way via PayPal....

A completely unrelated question:  are the stock bars 7/8" or 1"?  Looking to put some drag bars on the machine over the winter.

Thanks again to everyone for your helpful insights.
dr
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blueall1
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Re: Does this sound like overheating?
Reply #6 - 11/21/05 at 10:49:16
 
They are 1 inch
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LANCER
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Re: Does this sound like overheating?
Reply #7 - 11/21/05 at 18:22:47
 
 "  By the way, Lancer, did you get my message from this weekend?  Funds for the carb kit should be coming your way via PayPal...."

Got it, and called in the order today.  
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