SuzukiSavage.com - Rattle when accelerating

justin_o_guy Ex Member	Re: Rattle when accelerating Reply #30 - 01/29/07 at 01:37:59 I have "I TOLD you so!" typed in a reply box just Sittin here waiting to hit the reply button. Yea, that's how mean I am allright. MMMwwaahhaahhhahhaa
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Savage_Greg Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Don't go around your ass to reach your elbow... Posts: 7844 SW Washington State Gender:	Re: Rattle when accelerating Reply #31 - 01/29/07 at 08:15:42 I'll say one first... I told you so!
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Phelonius

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Re: Rattle when accelerating
Reply #32 - 01/29/07 at 11:37:45

Outside of loose nuts or bolts, the most likely suspect is fuel knock. Make sure no moisture is in your gas. Use a an anti icer additive then ride until the tank is as empty as you dare. Fill it with the best grade of gas you can get.
With the good milage these bikes get, there is no valid reason for making your sweety drink rotgut!
I personally only use the best gas available in what ever area I am riding in. I don't insist my women drink beer if a good grade of Irish whisky is available. Why should I treat my real sweety any worse.
At 50 to 60 MPG she deserves respect. Give her the good stuff.

Phelonius

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Phelonius

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justin_o_guy

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Re: Rattle when accelerating
Reply #33 - 01/29/07 at 19:09:07

Phelonius, I have read some of the things you say. You seem like a plenty decent type. Please don't take this as a personal shot. That notion, while the rationalization on the aded expense is understandable, since the difference in $$ is so low per tank, it's still a waste of $$ & the engine benefits not one bit. The only difference is octane. maybe an additive package difference, but nothing that would change the life of the engine or increase the performance. If it cou;d possibly be justified it would be widely accepted, because the oil companies have a real interest in selling all high dollar fuel they can. Study after study says, save the $$ & buy chrome, or bags or more tires. Lovin the bike by feedin it the best is understandable. Put that thing on a proper diet & use the savings to spoil her with pretty stuff to wear.

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Reelthing

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Re: Rattle when accelerating
Reply #34 - 01/30/07 at 06:43:57

Yeah a deviation into octane. This time of year I doubt that it matters. Summer ridding is another matter. I’m not expecting an increase in performance with Supper Shell (v-power for the youngsters) in this engine just more resistance to pre-ignition, while the aluminum head dissipates heat quite well and is far less likely to make the gas pop before the spark says it’s time I’ll still hedge my bet with higher octane fuel in hot stop and go traffic.

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Savage_Rob

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Re: Rattle when accelerating
Reply #35 - 01/30/07 at 07:46:42

I will agree on the point of octane. Low compression engines don't require it, but it could be beneficial (in hot weather in places with very high temps) for reducing the likelihood of preignition. That said, I would also agree that not all fuel is equal. Some places may have leaky tanks which acquire moisture or the fuel they buy may be of a lower quality (regardless of octane rating). I heartily agree with the sentiment that one should stick to high quality fuel. It just has nothing to do with the REGULAR/MID-GRAD/PREMIUM monikers. Some people will spend more for octane additives that do them no good the majority of the time (because they don't know any better) and the petroleum industry likes it that way.

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Savage_Greg

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Re: Rattle when accelerating
Reply #36 - 01/30/07 at 08:40:35

Many of us are old enough to have experienced the days of leaded gas and high compression engines and all the issues that relate to octane levels. Some of us even have the mechanical knowledge to understand how and what happens when it pings or knocks.

We have a Dodge Ram 1500 with a little wimpy V6. Wasn't my choice. The spouse wanted THAT truck so we got it. The darned motor/tranny setup is really not up to that size truck with any kind of load or grade. Interestingly, it really does ping and knock with very little effort, if we use anything less than premium.

However, for years I've heard people talking about spark-knock or pre-ignition in their Savage. OH NO! AHHH! Not spark knock! Can't have that! It's almost a hysteria, and everyone is willing to defend their opinion with all kinds of unproven rhetoric Shocked

So, "Who has actually heard their Savage ping or knock?"

Not me. I think that if piss could burn, the Savage would run on it.

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Reelthing

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Re: Rattle when accelerating
Reply #37 - 01/30/07 at 09:52:01

Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:

However, for years I've heard people talking about spark-knock or pre-ignition in their Savage. OH NO! AHHH! Not spark knock! Can't have that! It's almost a hysteria, and everyone is willing to defend their opinion with all kinds of unproven rhetoric Shocked

So, "Who has actually heard their Savage ping or knock?"

Not me. I think that if piss could burn, the Savage would run on it.

That's the rub - don't believe I ever could hear it - too much valve train and exhaust noise - perhaps the years in the oil industry has tainted my view - but I'll go with the ounce of prevention method - sort of like oil, syn here, can't prove that uniform length carbon bonds really do act more like bearings than the dyno stuff whos nonuniform bonds looks more like burlap - oh no not oil!

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Phelonius

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Re: Rattle when accelerating
Reply #38 - 01/30/07 at 11:17:17

justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:

Phelonius, I have read some of the things you say. You seem like a plenty decent type. Please don't take this as a personal shot. That notion, while the rationalization on the aded expense is understandable, since the difference in $$ is so low per tank, it's still a waste of $$ & the engine benefits not one bit. The only difference is octane. maybe an additive package difference, but nothing that would change the life of the engine or increase the performance. If it cou;d possibly be justified it would be widely accepted, because the oil companies have a real interest in selling all high dollar fuel they can. Study after study says, save the $$ & buy chrome, or bags or more tires. Lovin the bike by feedin it the best is understandable. Put that thing on a proper diet & use the savings to spoil her with pretty stuff to wear.

I can agree with most of the truth in what you are saying, and indeed it can be proven that there is more energy in some lower octane fuels. However in my experience there is less tendency to knock in the higher octane, since all Japanese MC engines come from the manufacturer with very lean tuning of the carb, I don't mind the extra few cents per tank to have smoother starting and smoother running. I know it doesn't go any faster nor do I look for that, I just like smoother running and more dependable cold starts.
BTW, I do not take offense at others opinions, In fact I can frequently learn from them. After all, this is my first 650 Savage/S-40 bike. Nearly all the riders on this page know more about this particular bike than me.
I do have 43 years of riding experience on 42 other motorcycles I have owned, and can base my opinions on that. Please note that I said opinions not mandates.

Phelonius

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firsts40

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Re: Rattle when accelerating
Reply #39 - 01/30/07 at 15:55:26

Well guys, I think you for all the replies I recieved concerning my rattle type noise. As far as "I told you so's". didn't happen.
Try to follow me on this. I was there when it was checked, so I know this is what it was.
The alignment marks for the belt adjustments were off. When the belt was last aligned, it was aligned by the marks which did put it close. With the belt being out of alignment, it was hiting the belt guide, which in turn cause it to come ever so slightly loose. The rattle was caused by the guide being loose, and the slight squeek was the belt.
I was lucky because there wasn't many miles put on it in this condition, so there was no damage done, except to my mind.
It proved the domino effect of things happening. One little problem causing another little problem until you have a major problem.
Thanks for all your replies guys, they were saved incase of another problem I run into, and maybe I will already have the answer.
I will be gone for a few weeks. Talk to you all when I return

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Dana from Misissippi
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justin_o_guy

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Re: Rattle when accelerating
Reply #40 - 01/30/07 at 22:03:02

Phelonious, you get a bike, ride it a year & then get a different one? Have you managed to hold on to any that were just too good to let go of? Your all time favorite bike? Ever have a Moto Guzzi?Hekk, you've owned more bikes than I've sat on. Surely you have something to share.. well, speak up man,, speak up,,,

Maybe I will try a tank O premium ^ see if it quiets the beast any,,

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Savage_Greg

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Re: Rattle when accelerating
Reply #41 - 01/31/07 at 11:27:31

Reelthing wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:

That's the rub - don't believe I ever could hear it - too much valve train and exhaust noise - perhaps the years in the oil industry has tainted my view - but I'll go with the ounce of prevention method - sort of like oil, syn here, can't prove that uniform length carbon bonds really do act more like bearings than the dyno stuff whos nonuniform bonds looks more like burlap - oh no not oil!

Okay, how about this?...

If you can hear pinging or knock in an auto engine...through the water jacketing and the hood, fenders, firewall, etc. Why wouldn't you hear a "strange noise" above the ordinary ones on your open air cooled engine.?

And what about the fact that the Suzuki MOM says that the Savage is supposed to run on regular unleaded?

And while we're using an ounce of prevention...how about the fact that premium is slower and cooler burning than regular, which could very possibly leave carbon build-up on the piston and combustion chamber? That carbon will then reduce your performance and could also cause the very thing that you are trying to prevent....pre-ignition.

My ounce of prevention is cheaper too.

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Phelonius

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Re: Rattle when accelerating
Reply #42 - 01/31/07 at 11:42:28

justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:

Phelonious, you get a bike, ride it a year & then get a different one? Have you managed to hold on to any that were just too good to let go of? Your all time favorite bike? Ever have a Moto Guzzi?Hekk, you've owned more bikes than I've sat on. Surely you have something to share.. well, speak up man,, speak up,,,

Maybe I will try a tank O premium ^ see if it quiets the beast any,,

The longest I ever kept one was a pair of them that I had from 1978 to 1995. I frequently have more than one and once had six in my stable at one time.
I confess, I am a lifelong motorcycle addict with no intention of reforming myself.

Phelonius

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Phelonius

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Digger

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Re: Rattle when accelerating
Reply #43 - 01/31/07 at 19:01:49

Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:

And while we're using an ounce of prevention...how about the fact that premium is slower and cooler burning than regular, which could very possibly leave carbon build-up on the piston and combustion chamber? That carbon will then reduce your performance and could also cause the very thing that you are trying to prevent....pre-ignition.

Good point.

I used to have a GT750 Suzuki (a "Water Buffalo") that liked to ping on regular gas. But, when I tried premium in it, the the plug on the center cylinder would wet-foul.

Since so many Savages seem to be hard on plugs, I thought I'd mention that.

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Savage_Greg

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Re: Rattle when accelerating
Reply #44 - 01/31/07 at 21:06:02

Digger wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:

Good point.

I used to have a GT750 Suzuki (a "Water Buffalo") that liked to ping on regular gas. But, when I tried premium in it, the the plug on the center cylinder would wet-foul.

Since so many Savages seem to be hard on plugs, I thought I'd mention that.

Thank you...

But, of course, we know that your incredible, extreme power, frame twisting, red light to red light, scary wonder "Water Buffalo" was a 2 stroke with an oil mix....but you got the point. If it doesn't burn, it leaves a mess in there.

You are right. The bottom line is a clean burn.

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