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Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the minute (Read 1988 times)
Midnightrider
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #30 - 05/11/10 at 11:12:20
 
The alternative is alternative energy but the oil companies are too greedy and are making too much money off of oil to want to switch. The power companies are working with wind and solar power. Look at the billions oil companies are making in profits. The oil companies should be made to invest in alternative energy. The only way to turn this country around is FIGHT GREED!!!
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #31 - 05/11/10 at 11:30:34
 
Midnight -

Are you aware how much "oil companies" are presently investing in alternative research and development?  A ton.

Remember, these aren't just "oil companies".  They are energy companies, and like all private businesses, are in business to sell the most they can to the largest numbers of customers.  Only a fool would restrict a company to oil alone - and they are not.

The problem is, though, you can't power cars, bikes, airplanes, trucks, trains, etc. on electricity for the foreseeable future - transportation runs on oil, and will continue to do so for a long time yet.

So, given that, from where do we get this oil?  That's the meaningful question, not a hypothetical debate about solar, wind, or atomic energy to produce electricity.  Electricity won't replace oil on a meaningful scale for a long time, and not until a revolution occurs in technology.  The race is on to do that, but it's a marathon, not a sprint.

So, please answer my question - from where do we get the oil we have to have without deep water drilling?
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #32 - 05/11/10 at 11:40:41
 
Midnightrider wrote on 05/11/10 at 11:12:20:
The alternative is alternative energy but the oil companies are too greedy and are making too much money off of oil to want to switch. The power companies are working with wind and solar power. Look at the billions oil companies are making in profits. The oil companies should be made to invest in alternative energy. The only way to turn this country around is FIGHT GREED!!!


which is what part of the cap and trade/tax bill is about, but that bill makes me nervous because power companies and any other company that is taxed by that bill will just pass it on to the consumers so, that's not good. and we don't have the money to subsidize anyone to create new tech for new ways of energy. course we could just sit here and wait while the free market moves.  

and they are working on electric motorcycles, cars and natural gas busses

Quote:
we should learn from this one and do everything possible to reduce the accident rate, but I presume most of use know that the accident rate in everything we do will never be zero.



that's really all we can do now, it's just that Haliburton or BP takes the risk and when accidents happen other people, in this case Louisiana residents and industries, are suffering. BP is standing up and saying they'll do the right thing but we'll see, probably waiting or some loop hole so they won't have to pay.  
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #33 - 05/11/10 at 11:47:31
 
Jerry Eichenberger wrote on 05/11/10 at 11:30:34:
Midnight -

So, please answer my question - from where do we get the oil we have to have without deep water drilling?


there's Alaska, there's the middle east, there's south america. . .  are they running out yet???   there's still oil in Texas, cost to much to get to for some reason. and why not drill even deeper out in the ocean??  70% of this planet is covered in ocean, bet there's lots of oil we haven't even seen yet.  but it's still a good move to move away from oil, it's kind of a greasy business Wink  
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mick
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #34 - 05/11/10 at 13:47:22
 
I watched something on PBS about the sh1t load of oil up in Canada,they don't drill for it ,it's laying on top of the ground in what looked like shale, or small black stones,it was to expensive to extract the oil at $40 a barrel ,but now it's viable, I was in someone elses house at the time so I couldn't turn it up ,I just got the jist of it, has anyone heard of the stuff ?
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #35 - 05/11/10 at 13:54:43
 
I don't know about oil in shale but I know there's natural gas in shale and they have just recently figured out a way to extract it, that's why some poeple are pushing for natural gas, there's new tech to get it now, it's some huge amount too, not sure how they measure natural gas, it's not barrels though
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Midnightrider
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #36 - 05/11/10 at 15:54:05
 
Jerry Eichenberger wrote on 05/11/10 at 11:30:34:
Midnight -

Are you aware how much "oil companies" are presently investing in alternative research and development?  A ton.

Remember, these aren't just "oil companies".  They are energy companies, and like all private businesses, are in business to sell the most they can to the largest numbers of customers.  Only a fool would restrict a company to oil alone - and they are not.

The problem is, though, you can't power cars, bikes, airplanes, trucks, trains, etc. on electricity for the foreseeable future - transportation runs on oil, and will continue to do so for a long time yet.

So, given that, from where do we get this oil?  That's the meaningful question, not a hypothetical debate about solar, wind, or atomic energy to produce electricity.  Electricity won't replace oil on a meaningful scale for a long time, and not until a revolution occurs in technology.  The race is on to do that, but it's a marathon, not a sprint.

So, please answer my question - from where do we get the oil we have to have without deep water drilling?

I know how much Exxon made last year, you or I would call 1% of that a ton but thats not enough. Oil companies are not just "oil companies", thet are evil crooks, the Valdez spill proved that. Look how Exxon tried to handle that. How many lies will BP flood us with before this mess is over. I've seen the results of the power companies efforts, the oil companies have yet to show me anything other than destroying the planet and starting wars.  Give the CEO and upper management of BP life in prison for criminal negligence and you wont have to worry about any more accidents, BUT DRILLING IS NOT THE ANSWER!. Cut back and quit burning the stuff. All the European countries are ahead of us when it comes to oil conservation just like they are with Health Care. Jerry their trains are probably a lot faster than your airplane. My car gets 33 mpg. Most of the time I ride my 250 Ninja all I can which averages 69 mpg. I put an efficient heating system in my home that heats my house with around 250 gallons a winter, Theres 4 schools wihtin 2 miles of my home. When school is in traffic is deadlocked in my neighborhood. Empty schoolbuses go right by all these kids homes yet 90% of the parents drive their kids to school. How many people are bitching about the oil spill but doing absolutely nothing to conserve it. The answer is NOT to drill more in our oceans but start using what we have left like it is a non renewable resource. More money should be spent by the oil companies in developing alternative energy instead of conning us out of our tax dollars  trying to take over the Middle East. 90% of our fragile economy depends on the price of oil, its time we quit being stupid. In the meantime we will not have to be worrying about destroying our planet.
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Stimpy - FSO
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Drill baby drill!  ...The essay.
Reply #37 - 05/11/10 at 16:37:32
 
So... the 100-Ton bell didn't work, what a surprise.

Where do we get the oil we have to have
without deep water drilling?


"we have to have" this says it all, if anything, this is a
wake-up call, a big one; all this is very complex, SO
darn complex in fact that it's ridiculously easy to solve,
the answer to the toughest questions are often hiding in
plain view; this may be a simplistic view of it all but these
are my thoughts:


There really isn't any other source of mass quantities of oil
anywhere AND even if there was it wouldn't solve anything
for too long anyway and we would be right where we started
soon enough.

Now ask yourself the following:

Why on earth would anyone and/or any corporation in their
right mind (even assuming that "peak oil" was a scam) would
be deep-drilling for oil (up to 40,000 feet down!) in the poles,
in the exorbitantly expensive deep-sea and other hard to reach
spots, etc, if oil was readily available in convenient spots right
on your backyard (and not your neighbors)???!

Even worse is the fact that hosing down oily sand with steam to
extract very little low-quality oil over in canada and other spots
that causes a monumental environmental mess because of the
runoffs, what gives?!   ...now:
 

- Eolic power requires a lots of infrastructure, is unreliable because
of changing wind conditions and can usually only be utilized locally
because channeling that power requires more infrastructure.

- Hydroelectrics
are excellent but again require very large infra-
structure and the worlds water routes are changing dramatically.

- Solar is a good alternative but with similar problems to eolic but
with the advantage that the energy produced can easily be stored
locally and are good for "small" domestic use and installations and
for remote locations. The batteries required to store this power on
the other hand are VERY pollutant because of the mess left behind
while mining for the required metals and from the industrial chemical
plants that make the acid and plastic casings.

- nuclear, needless to say, is a mixed blessing and has its own problems.

- hydrogen and bio-diesel (and all others like them) are all a HUGE
joke because they both require more energy and resources to make
than they produce so it's all BS, trust me.

- Internal combustion technology has gone unchanged for a century
and the only reason cars now have more power is because they
consume more gas period. Fuel-efficient japanese cars have light
materials and high compression small engines in their advantage
and do produce good results but they still require gas.

- Hybrid owners, i have really bad news for you... it's a scam.
Yup, sad but true but your dirty prius is way more pollutant that
a filthy hummer because of the industrial and chemical processes
that went behind creating your techy death trap's space-age
components along with it's 80,000 "AA" batteries it uses... and
what do you think will happen to those batteries when they
eventually will have to be replaced, you think they will be
"properly disposed off?"  suuure they will, you just keep telling
yourself that everytime you push that pretty button to start
moving that 2-ton tank around, ok?

It does seems however that Nikola Tesla and others had a few
pretty good ideas on how to deal with alternative energy sources
but were all promptly taken care of by the same people that brought
you the Deepwater Horizon Pay Per View Reality Disaster Porn 2010!

So what's you point stimpy?

listen, I am not a pessimist nor do I see the glass half-empty
and I don't have all the answers either, I'm just a realist that
is half-aware and half-informed, struggling with duality same
as everybody else, but all this lets me see things the way they
really are and things are not so good right now so let's not
sugar-coat them, ok?

The truth is that in the last 200 years or so, somewhere, somehow
we sealed the deal and we all lost our way for good, we turned
dumb, lazy and smug, addicted to comfort, somehow believing
that life, the world and others owed us something and that "rules",
hard work and common sense were all made for your neighbor but
not for ourselves because we are all so darn special and so are our
children, right?  but guess what, they're not.


The truth is that we are all part of a species that somehow divided
itself in to imaginary sub-species and sub-classes and created
imaginary borders and divided the bounty and resources we
thought were no one elses' and were there for the taking but
the truth is that everything already had an owner and a perfect
balance existed everywhere but since we consider any other
species as "inferior" to us we destroyed the all habitats constantly
finding new uses and applications for all the new resources,
exploiting everything with no remorse and eventually became
dependent on all these things and exactly HERE is where things
went wrong because soon later the population exploded simply
because something else was doing all the work (fossil fuels)
reaching our highpoint with the pathetic and contagious presidential
phrase "greed is good" and here we are today thinking
that we are special and truly believing that we have the power to
"save the planet" when we cannot even love and take care of
each other in the most basic ways.  


In reality the planet is not going anywhere, we are; the planet
will survive just fine and the ecosystems will eventually recover
their own way and life will go on and this failed experiment will
be forgotten and the race to the top of the food chain will begin
again.

The truth is that we are multiplying spoiled comfort junkies fighting
for the last few doses all while still ignoring the many many warnings
that we are given every day showing us the right path to follow
wondering what went wrong and why... well DUH!

So finally, what IS this simple answer to solve it all?  
As I said, it's very simple: We don't.

We don't look for new places to drill but look for a way to get
our priorities as a species in order because the more we wait
the more it's gonna hurt when this downward spiral we're all in
finally hits bottom. There is just no other way. Yes, an utopic
society is impossible to achieve but the least we can do for the
meantime while we figure things out is go "back to basics" and
back to simple living and stop wanting and wanting more and
more and more comforts and stuff all the time and UNDERSTAND
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NEED AND WANT
and get our
asses in gear asap, educate yourself and your children and
understand that ALL sentient being have a right and a job
to do here and the right not to suffer unnecessarily and there
is no reason in the world why YOUR existence should change
this in any way, and yes, this includes your neighbor.


And all I know is that I'm doing my part. Want not, waste not.
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #38 - 05/11/10 at 16:57:05
 
When the USA was smarter than they are now, back in the 1970s they lowered the speed limit,There is no reason they can't do it now.
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #39 - 05/11/10 at 17:12:59
 
bill67 wrote on 05/11/10 at 16:57:05:
When the USA was smarter than they are now, back in the 1970s they lowered the speed limit,There is no reason they can't do it now.

Because the oil companies run the goverment, why the hell are we still in Iraq? Why did we go there in the first place? Haliburton created the war now they have destroyed the Gulf Coast. How much more damage are they gonna do?
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #40 - 05/11/10 at 17:24:10
 
Jerry, do make a living defending the big companies?  Although we do need them they would f#%k over their own mothers if it would line their pockets.  Social responsibility for major oil is for brochures and not reality.
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #41 - 05/11/10 at 17:51:10
 
forrest wrote on 05/11/10 at 17:24:10:
Jerry, do make a living defending the big companies?  Although we do need them they would f#%k over their own mothers if it would line their pockets.  Social responsibility for major oil is for brochures and not reality.

Amen. The CEO's and upper management have to have 500 million dollar salarys and golden parachutes. In order to do that they have to screw somebody, their own employees and the consumer. Two guys I work with did missionary work in Alaska a few years ago. They worked with oil refinery employees. My friends were told by the refinery employees that the vast majority of the oil they refine is sent to Japan. Why does our Alaskan oil go to Japan? Because our oil companies can sell it to the Japaneese for more money than they will get for it here. Thats what oil companies call good business. Makes money for upper management and the shareholders. Thats what its all about.
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #42 - 05/11/10 at 18:34:49
 
...but but Rush says it's the ecology preservation folks who made the spill happen!

"Rush Limbaugh pointed out that the explosion occurred on April 21st, the day before 'Earth Day.' He also reminded us that Al Gore had previously encouraged environmental nutjobs to engage in civil disobedience against the construction of coal plants that don't have carbon capture technology. 'Eco-terrorists' exist and have done millions of dollars worth of criminal damage. Fire is one of the main tools of their evil trade. I'm not claiming the Deep Horizon was bombed by eco-terrorists, although I don't believe it's out of the realm of possibility. But, it would take some serious money and ability to pull off an attack like that, so I would tend to think much bigger than college hippie eco-wackos with some money-backing -- a foreign government, perhaps. Of course, before I could finish writing my thoughts here, I just heard Michael Savage posing the same questions. He also said there is a theory on a Russian website that claims North Korea is behind this. The article claims that North Korea torpedoed the Deepwater Horizon, which was apparently built and financed by South Korea. Torpedoes would make sense for the results we see.... There are a number of international 'suspects' who might want to do something like this. They range from Muslim terrorists to the Red Chinese, Venezuela and beyond. Remember that China and Russia are drilling out there, as well, and they would benefit from America cutting back on our own drilling."
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #43 - 05/11/10 at 18:49:50
 
Stimpy,and midnight,you guys are right on the money.
We should try public transportation, It works in big city's like London Paris,Rome use thousands of bycycles,so does Portland Oregon, New York city does well also, people are so mucking lazy,that is why 60% of Americans are over weight, I doubt the US could raise an army at the moment,Start riding your bikes guys ,even your Savages get 45,or 50 MPG,my miata gets just over 30.
And we grow 1/4 the food we eat.We all have to do something ,we cant listen to Rush Limbauer, and wait for his drug induced advice.
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Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi
Reply #44 - 05/11/10 at 18:52:21
 
Very disturbing video of the oil slick from the air....Sit down before you see it.  

Video is from Alabama resident John Wathen as a volunteer pilot flew him over the area where the oil rig sank. Officials have stopped guessing at the amount of oil leaking although some speculate it may be closer to 1 million gallons per day.

Don't let BP spin this into something trivial.

"It's not a leak, it's a volcano spewing oil"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=did-S6XbpMM

Why is corporate media (R) covering up this disaster? Totally 1984. No one does investigative reporting anymore. They just repeat propaganda they are told.


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