SuzukiSavage.com - The way things are

earlytimz Senior Member Offline Savage model 417 (4 speed, 17mm) Posts: 382 BG, KY Gender:	Re: The way things are Reply #15 - 06/09/10 at 13:41:15 Starlifter, it's not just you brother... Outside of the old liberal bits, I feel the same way! This isn't a right or left argument, this is a 'state of the union' argument. If you ask me, we're in a pretty bad state right now!
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LostArtist

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Re: The way things are
Reply #16 - 06/09/10 at 14:20:58

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/09/10 at 13:01:59:

PLease, reread my post, the first line is a quote from someone else, I disagree w/ it. It would be nice & the only way to force them to do that is to punish them by not using their products/services when they are bad. Monsanto, ADM, Halliburton, Dyncor & the list goes on & on, criminal or just irresponsible corporations.

so you are going to research every company of everything you buy for what you consider ethical behavior, I bet there are others who will disagree with you on what "ethical behavior" is. some people don't see underpaying workers as unethical, some people do, etc. . . also companies are not going to willingly divulge their private business affairs to the public, and boycotts are fine, but losing the few people willing to do all the research before buying any product is probably a small price to pay for these corporations. and is it ethical to you to pay more for a product and take that money away from supporting yourself or your family?

I'm not convinced we can trust businesses to do what's ethical and I know we can't trust government to do what's ethical.

I agree we need to stop voting people with connections/corruptions into office but they are the only ones running.

Quote:

That is so true & makes me sick! Ever seen Jay Leno do the Jaywalking? Those idiots don't even know who the vice president is!! And we expect these people to vote? Let alone make ethical decisions in the world??

scary ain't it Huh

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mick

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Re: The way things are
Reply #17 - 06/09/10 at 16:27:55

LostArtist wrote on 06/09/10 at 14:20:58:

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/09/10 at 13:01:59:

PLease, reread my post, the first line is a quote from someone else, I disagree w/ it. It would be nice & the only way to force them to do that is to punish them by not using their products/services when they are bad. Monsanto, ADM, Halliburton, Dyncor & the list goes on & on, criminal or just irresponsible corporations.

so you are going to research every company of everything you buy for what you consider ethical behavior, I bet there are others who will disagree with you on what "ethical behavior" is. some people don't see underpaying workers as unethical, some people do, etc. . . also companies are not going to willingly divulge their private business affairs to the public, and boycotts are fine, but losing the few people willing to do all the research before buying any product is probably a small price to pay for these corporations. and is it ethical to you to pay more for a product and take that money away from supporting yourself or your family?

I'm not convinced we can trust businesses to do what's ethical and I know we can't trust government to do what's ethical.

I agree we need to stop voting people with connections/corruptions into office but they are the only ones running.

Quote:

That is so true & makes me sick! Ever seen Jay Leno do the Jaywalking? Those idiots don't even know who the vice president is!! And we expect these people to vote? Let alone make ethical decisions in the world??

scary ain't it Huh

I allways thought Leno's Jay walkers where cherry picked for stupidity.
I hope so anyway,I guess there must be people that stupid, if so they probably don't vote,fingers crossed.

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Religion makes you fly into skyscrapers

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: The way things are
Reply #18 - 06/10/10 at 05:46:58

LostArtist wrote on 06/09/10 at 14:20:58:

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/09/10 at 13:01:59:

PLease, reread my post, the first line is a quote from someone else, I disagree w/ it. It would be nice & the only way to force them to do that is to punish them by not using their products/services when they are bad. Monsanto, ADM, Halliburton, Dyncor & the list goes on & on, criminal or just irresponsible corporations.

so you are going to research every company of everything you buy for what you consider ethical behavior, I bet there are others who will disagree with you on what "ethical behavior" is. some people don't see underpaying workers as unethical, some people do, etc. . . also companies are not going to willingly divulge their private business affairs to the public, and boycotts are fine, but losing the few people willing to do all the research before buying any product is probably a small price to pay for these corporations. and is it ethical to you to pay more for a product and take that money away from supporting yourself or your family?

I'm not convinced we can trust businesses to do what's ethical and I know we can't trust government to do what's ethical.

I agree we need to stop voting people with connections/corruptions into office but they are the only ones running.

Quote:

That is so true & makes me sick! Ever seen Jay Leno do the Jaywalking? Those idiots don't even know who the vice president is!! And we expect these people to vote? Let alone make ethical decisions in the world??

scary ain't it Huh

I cant study every product & every detail of everything, but I CAN know about Dyncor & Halliburtons SEX~SLAVERY RINGS , look it up.

I can know that Monsanto is producing cancer causing agents in their GMO nuts.

I can know about the SUICIDES of the WORKERS in the Iphone plant & have nothing to do with I phones.

Pretending that since I cant know everything that I would need to know in order to do what I want to do perfectly is reason to know & do nothing makes as much sense as pretending that since I cant understand quantum physics I shouldnt bother with adding & subtracting/

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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earlytimz

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Re: The way things are
Reply #19 - 06/10/10 at 07:12:30

MICK- "I allways thought Leno's Jay walkers where cherry picked for stupidity.
I hope so anyway,I guess there must be people that stupid, if so they probably don't vote,fingers crossed."

Yeah Mick, I would hope so too. I just don't think they're picked, these idiots are everywhere!
There are several examples of this crap, here are a few. The first one sums it up pretty well, the second one is already famous of Howard Stern.
I'm not trying to make a political point here, just trying to show how ignorant the public can be!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofgaa1_lk8I&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woBC5b3Ti0M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI&NR=1

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ratz Junior Member Offline Wait.......what?? Posts: 92 Alabama Gulf Coast Gender:	Re: The way things are Reply #20 - 06/10/10 at 07:16:39 The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.
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Jerry Eichenberger

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Re: The way things are
Reply #21 - 06/10/10 at 08:55:46

Well, this old conservative sees things a little differently.

First, if you think things are bad now for Liberal causes, go back 50 years - no Civil Rights Acts, no equality for women, very few minorities voted, etc., etc. Progress may be slow at times, but it always marches on with certainty.

I'm just not a "doom sayer". I prefer to be optomistic, and realize that everything we do will have a few mistakes, a few wrong turns, and a few dead ends. But in the course of human history, each generation makes a little progress - all we can really ask.

My take on things - Relax. The sky isn't falling and won't for a few billion years. Everything recovers. Sure, those poor souls in the Gulf may have their jobs or businesses on the ropes for a while, but look how so much of the world has suffered far worse devastations from wars, plagues, revolutions, and depressions. Yet, each time, a bettter world arose.

As for boycotting BP - I have for years. Not because of any nefarious motive, simply because my auto mechanic calls their gas "green poison". I will always prefer Shell (Dutch - when did they do anything wrong lately?), and Marathon, headquartered up the highway from me in Findlay, Ohio of all places.

At my airport, we sell Phillips aviation fuels, even though BP dominates the market in that industry, BP's credit terms extended to dealers really suck. I don't understand how or why BP keeps dealers.

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Jerry Eichenberger
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Starlifter Serious Thumper Offline It only snows seven months of the year here. Posts: 3746 Eastern Michigan Gender:	Re: The way things are Reply #22 - 06/10/10 at 10:24:12 ...but, the social justices' you speak of, the improvements of workers rights, voting laws etc. were fought against tooth and nail by the right wing conservatives. Yes Jerry, everything is hunky dory....move along folks, nothing to see here.
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Starlifter Serious Thumper Offline It only snows seven months of the year here. Posts: 3746 Eastern Michigan Gender:	Re: The way things are Reply #23 - 06/10/10 at 10:36:42 To everyone who has posted/responded to this thread, I thank you all. In addition this is the type of thoughtful intelligent dialogue that makes our cafe discussions interesting, thought provoking, and civil. Thanks again. *Starlifter
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Jerry Eichenberger

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Re: The way things are
Reply #24 - 06/10/10 at 10:43:30

Lifter -

Again, that's what politics is all about. We need both sides to balance things out, and even the "extreme" left and right wingers add a touch of balance. It's called a system of checks and balances for very good resaons.

I'm quite sure that if either of us is totally honest about it, we'd admit that the "loyal oppostition" is a very good thing. We wouldn't want either polar extreme to run amuck, totally unchecked and unbalanced.

When the debates get heated and forceful, as long as they remain civil, the result is usually better than the sum of the parts.

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Jerry Eichenberger
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babyhog

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Re: The way things are
Reply #25 - 06/10/10 at 13:24:50

Quote:

..
My take on things - Relax. The sky isn't falling and won't for a few billion years. Everything recovers. Sure, those poor souls in the Gulf may have their jobs or businesses on the ropes for a while, but look how so much of the world has suffered far worse devastations from wars, plagues, revolutions, and depressions. Yet, each time, a bettter world arose.
..

I know its impossible, but I would like to see this oil disaster treated like "natural" disasters get treated. Granted, in this case, there IS "someone" to blame, BP, et.al. But when real natural disasters happen (even 9-11 for that matter) people have banded together and "fixed" things.... Found cures for plagues.... People couldn't blame Katrina on anyone, so they cleaned the place up! Terrorists aren't going to "pay" for the clean up and the "moving on" as a result of 9-11 actions. BP will pay dearly in the long run. Find a way to fix the issue at hand, the rest will fall into place eventually.

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JohnBoy Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 825 Gender:	Re: The way things are Reply #26 - 06/10/10 at 17:05:40 Serowbot wrote on 06/09/10 at 09:43:35: ...we can't spare the birds... How 'bout just tar?... Louisiana State bird is now the “tar baby” Thanks BP!!!!!
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JohnBoy

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Re: The way things are
Reply #27 - 06/10/10 at 17:16:20

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/09/10 at 12:39:40:

there needs to be some social responsibility taken by corporations,

...What we need is a well informed & ethical public who directs their dollars to the corporations who engage in good behavior. Today, Im thinking they would all die in minutes if America stopped spending $$$ with criminal/ unethical corporations....

What we need is a set of laws that stop giving corporate America the same protection as an individual.
When a board of directors can make a decision and hide behind the "corporate shield" then no individual responsibility is attached.
Change the corporate laws, such that every voting member is responsible, and liable for the “Corporate” screw ups, and things will change.
It is our country...they just get to play here.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: The way things are
Reply #28 - 06/10/10 at 17:37:48

JohnBoy wrote on 06/10/10 at 17:16:20:

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/09/10 at 12:39:40:

there needs to be some social responsibility taken by corporations,

...What we need is a well informed & ethical public who directs their dollars to the corporations who engage in good behavior. Today, Im thinking they would all die in minutes if America stopped spending $$$ with criminal/ unethical corporations....

What we need is a set of laws that stop giving corporate America the same protection as an individual.
When a board of directors can make a decision and hide behind the "corporate shield" then no individual responsibility is attached.
Change the corporate laws, such that every voting member is responsible, and liable for the “Corporate” screw ups, and things will change.
It is our country...they just get to play here.

That just mite be a good start,, Im not seeing the down side..
anyone see a prob w/ that idea?

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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Starlifter Serious Thumper Offline It only snows seven months of the year here. Posts: 3746 Eastern Michigan Gender:	Re: The way things are Reply #29 - 06/10/10 at 18:27:35 Yes, every politician has a vested interest in the corporations that line his/her/their pockets... Politicians don't leave $100 000 000 dollar jobs to become a politician just for the good of America.
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