Hi Mick -

I'll try to give you my feelings in response to both of your posts.  First, intelligence and the amount of formal education one has are not the same.  I realize you quit school at 14, but don't for a minute think that makes you less intelligent than one who has a doctorate in his title.

Just yesterday, I was talking with a friend about the likes of Henry Ford, a mechanical genius, and the Wright Bros.  None of them graduated from high school.  Yet, Ford figured out how to make the automobile reliable ( for that day) and also invented the assembly line method of manufacturing, which made complicated machinery affordable to make in large numbers.  Obviously, the Wrights were self-taught aero engineers, who figured out that Lillienthal's lift equations were erroneous, corrected them, and made their machine fly when others like DOCTOR Langley could not.

As for what is middle class, I don't tie it to a given income number.  First, there are too many variations of living expenses across the country.  I look at it more as a live style and to some degree, what a person can purchase with his income.

For instance, if you live in Manhattan or Los Angeles, it obviously takes a lot more income to have the same standard of living as does a person who lives in a small town in rural Alabama, or even in rural Ohio.

I guess to me, middle class means enough income put a decent roof over your head, clothe your family (size of family determines this and most of the expenses) in reasonable attire, feed your family healthy meals and eat out at a moderately priced restaurant once in a while, have a reliable car, or two if both spouses work, have decent health care insurance, and not be worried every night when you go to sleep about how you're going to pay your bills tomorrow.

How much does that take for a family of four to enjoy this life style - again, it mostly matters on where you live and what your "likes" are.

For instance, we are not "vacation takers".  We actually go on a real vacation about once every 5 years or so.  But if you think that your family needs the typical "pile everyone in a car, drive 500+ miles, and stay for 10 days" vacation each summer, then that alone costs thousands.  We've been fortunate in that I travel a lot in my work, and get a lot of airline miles and hotel points.  So when we do go someplace, all I pay for out of pocket is meals and maybe a rental car.

So, sorry to beg your question, but there is no way to accurately put a firm number on the amount of income one needs to be middle class.

And, there are so many different levels of middle class - from just above the poverty line to just below a luxurious life style that no one would probably agree on a singular definition of what "middle class" is.

Bill -

I can empathize with your "vacation".  I had the same one, but for a lot more than 2 years.

98% of taxpaying Americans have a household income of 200,000 dollars or less. 2% of Americans have an income above that, but the 2% making more than 200,000 dollars yearly, actually control 75% of the wealth in America. These folks are the upper class- the millionaires + billionaires.  
I think a family of 4 qualifies for reduced school lunches when the household income is around 24,000.
Starting school teacher pay is 30,000 a year with 4 years of college in Maine.
-New York Times: the deal pays Limbaugh 38 million dollars/year for eight years, plus a 100 million dollar signing bonus.  Upper class.
Here in Maine, teacher aides get 13,000 a year and no benefits.

This is a crazy world. Happy is paying the bills, having enough to eat, get to work, and some time to relax. Saving would be nice - maybe some day.

tcreeley wrote on 08/14/10 at 13:42:46:

his supporters are all tea baggers.and about 80% of this web site also suport him.
In an interview a few years ago the interviewer asked him if he would do his show but this time on the side of democrats ,he said "
he11 yes just point me to the money,that is all he cares about,he doesn't give a sh1t about polotics, he only stays up to date because that is his schtick,it's all a big con game ,and the repubs love him,and fall for it,suckers !

Maria Sharapova the tennis player makes over $20,000,000 a year.I see nothing wrong with that,If she has a bad year the tax payers want have to bail her out.And you don't have to buy any products that she advertises.

There is another Yahoo article this morning about millionaires.

1.  The top 1% of income pays 40% of all taxes, and that number will go up this year with changes to the tax code.  Millionaires are not tax evaders.

2.  80% of them are not retired - they go to work every day for at least 8 hours - many work a longer day..

3.  Only 10% inherited their wealth - 90% are self made.

4.  The greatest percentage of them drive a Ford.  Next preference is a Cadillac, next is a Lincoln.

All of this blows a lot of the myths.

Did you ever watch that show "Dirty Jobs" with Mike Rowe?

I read an interview with him and he made note that many of the owners of these small companies that do these dirty jobs are multi millionaires and work hard every day. It's a myth that most inherit their wealth. Not that it doesn't happen, but its not the norm.

By the way, for anyone in favor of the death tax for those evil rich guys, does anyone believe for one second that if John Kerry dies Jan 1st, the US government will suddenly become 50 million dollars richer? Nonsense….. he hid his boat to avoid taxes for crying out loud so there’s no way Uncle Sam is getting any of his money. The super rich get around death taxes all the time. It’s the family farms that get wiped out.