bill67 wrote on 12/14/11 at 08:44:54:



Could not tell any diff.

 
Built2last66

Now that you got your hands free & worked the gag out of your mouth and got the tape off your eyelids .....

which oil did you finally go with?

We have a long standing tradition here of enjoying our factually based oil wars ...    Newbies ask us oil questions on purpose, then grin and drop down into their fox holes and cover their ears -- the fun is sure to start immediately.

We have a lot of fun with the questions, but please remember the very best most effective mortar rounds are completely truth based.

In a sea of perfectly good useable motor oils, we do have to sort out the car ones with the energy stars and the ones that lack the ZDDP levels (1200 ppm and up) that our old flat tappet Savages need.

There is a strong preference for JASO-MA bike oils, but we don't always care for the big price tags that go with them.   Not only do they charge too much per quart, they won't always tell us what is in them.

Diesel oils come across pretty good as "known for what's in them" and for not costing an arm and a leg to get the ZDDP our Savage engines require.   Diesel oils do cost less as they are sold in a market where 5-8 big white gallon jugs comprise a normal oil change.   Rotella is neat because it is JASO-MA rated as a bike oil, and it comes in the big diesel packaging so it comes at a lower price than all the rest of the JASO-MA oils.

Yes, Bill generally gets "killed" at the end of each oil war, but he seems to take no lasting damage from it -- he's always back pluggin' his Klotz fer the next one.

Klotz is getting better about saying what's in the bottle -- they are using an estorline base oil (built up from smaller molecules) and they are now stating how much ZDDP they are putting in to the automobile non-catalytic RACING ONLY oil.  

Shame they won't say as much about the other oils they sell ....  

Klotz has been detail compared to other oils 3 times now by 3 different people, and the gist seems to be "it shows no advantage" to the more standard oils we compare it to.

For example, Bill made the initial mistake of going with a 15w50 weight as his preferred contender, and he lost across the board on a data driven comparison to Rotella Synthetic at 5w40 weight, mainly because his hot weight was too high for the Savage engine and it adversely affected head cooling.   His heavier weight oil was slow to pick up the engine heat at the head and slow to release it to the crankcase aluminum walls ...

Some of Bill's claims may sound outlandish to you -- until you start to read all the stuff on the Klotz testimonial pages written by all the rest of the Bills out there.    We jest had to test the stuff just to make sure it really wasn't red magic like the Bills say, but alas 3 times it has let us down.

I think it is because we testers are cynical unbelievers and the Klotz magic only works for those who clap for Tinkerbell and truly believe enough for the sparkles to start kicking in .....

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 12/14/11 at 18:34:01:


Sitting here with a gallon of Rot Triple 15w/40 in my room... I plan on trying T6 after this is gone..

Oils, metals, and engines are all foreign to me... so I've learned quite a bit from this thread... I don't mind playing in the mud  

Built2Last wrote on 12/14/11 at 22:20:15:

Why don't you use 10w40 rot oil.The 15w will make your engine run way to hot. And suzuki don't recomend 5w/40 oil,I see your really in a bind here.

KLOTZ Hi performance TechiniPlate Mx4 15w/50.Zero wear oil.    It cost a little more but you can go double the mileage before you need to change the oil,Plus you have smooth shifting,I use their fork oil to very little stickion if any.  

OF, I do get a kick out of your Yugo/bill67 linkage.

Yes, the Yugo was a miserable failure here.  The car, though, did have some challenges just to its very existence that no other cars had to overcome.

It started off as a Fiat 127, a reasonable and inexpensive little car for the masses, made in Italy (hence the quality problems), but if you got one that had everything screwed together properly, it worked fine and was reliable.  Fiats are just Fiats.  Get a good one and they are great.
 -- The 127 worked as well and held together as well as US-made competitors (Vega, Chevette, Escort, Fiesta, Pinto etc.) in the 80's.  

When Fiat stopped making the 127, the tools to make it ended up in Yugoslavia.  With Malcom Bricklin's involvement (whole teams of engineers were sent there just to work quality issues, and for the US market, they created a special production line of elite assemblers that got lots more pay) the car was imported in the late 80s thru the early 90s.  

The car was doomed from the start.
 -- A good Italian design, but made by socialists with the communist manufacturing attitude (just fill the quota for today and go home, comrade)
 -- The design was somewhat outdated when the Italians made it, and became more and more obsolete in the 90s.
 -- The car was made by Zastava, a large and old company in Yugoslavia.  
    --- The United Nations placed sanctions on Yugoslavia in the 90s the restricted manufacturing/export, leaving US dealers with dwindling inventory.
    --- This got a lot worse when NATO bombed the factory by mistake, thinking it was a gun factory.
 -- With no way to produce more than a few thousand cars annually, the company folded in the early 90s

If they would have been given an even break, they might have survived.  Who knows?  They did have a few advantages -- they cost a lot less than their competition because labor was cheap, and the gov't subsidized them.