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Why didnt the get more security? (Read 395 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #60 - 10/28/12 at 08:17:04
 
Retread wrote on 10/28/12 at 06:46:11:
I'm saying he ignored eight months of national security notices... 9/11 followed, where was the outrage when 3K+ people died? Not a word was said, in fact when anyone even suggested the reasoning for the attack they were run out of town on a rail..



SO,, YOu thot that was a bad thing, did ya? Handled poorly, & all like that?

YOu didnt think he was properly held accountable?

& you thot that was Wrong?


SO< YOU want to perpetuate wrong by making sure YOUR guy isnt held accountable? BUsh wasnt, so its not fair here? OR, what? What are you saying? I REally dont want it to be what I just asked if youre saying..

Or, you REally dont believe , what? Obama was allowed to help, or Obama didnt really know they needed help or Obama wasnt even asked or told,, what?
PLease, tell me what make you believe Obama is not the Top Dog who is responsible for the failures of his admonistration.


I cant help but believe he would have been on TV, telling us all how great he is if he woulda got some help in there in time & they had a BIGASS fight & we won,, OHH it woulda all been HIm & what a Great Leader he is ,, But ,, no,, we bury 4
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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #61 - 10/28/12 at 08:22:15
 
WebsterMark wrote on 10/28/12 at 06:47:21:
No, president,... none... would let an embassy be overrun
besides, what if one did? what if obama did do that? who would know without Fox News? Should Woodward and Berstein just said, aw hell, the President said he did know anything so lets just forget about it.....

you guys gotta get off your Faux News crap. besides, as has often been pointed out, Fox News is around because of NBC's etc... failures.


 Failures? Of what, not giving you the bent perspective you WANT, instead of the truth? Everything was out there for all to see, Fox and ole Mitt just decided to blow it up into something it is not...

Let a "CONSULATE" (big diff) be over run? What do you suppose he should have done? Call in the Marines? Think they could have been deployed in a couple of hours? We are talking Libya, not just outside San Diego.. Nothing else short of armor would have done any good, we are talking mortars and RPG's against light arms, you could have put five more people on the ground and gotten the same results!

 You could go back in the records and most likely find EVERY consulate, EVERY embassy asking for more manpower! Twenty plus embassy's and consulates came under attack by protesters that day.. So choose one.. Maybe you should ask "What happened to the funding for security?"..Oh yea, the GOP cut it..
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #62 - 10/28/12 at 09:18:39
 
Retread wrote on 10/28/12 at 08:22:15:
WebsterMark wrote on 10/28/12 at 06:47:21:
No, president,... none... would let an embassy be overrun
besides, what if one did? what if obama did do that? who would know without Fox News? Should Woodward and Berstein just said, aw hell, the President said he did know anything so lets just forget about it.....

you guys gotta get off your Faux News crap. besides, as has often been pointed out, Fox News is around because of NBC's etc... failures.


 Failures? Of what, not giving you the bent perspective you WANT, instead of the truth? Everything was out there for all to see, Fox and ole Mitt just decided to blow it up into something it is not...
****************************************************

Above the line, irrelevant, dont care..




Let a "CONSULATE" (big diff) be over run? What do you suppose he should have done?
They FIRST asked for help when? I heard a couple of weeks ago..W/O that info, the answer is pure speculation.


Call in the Marines?
Id say thatd be a good first step.

Think they could have been deployed in a couple of hours? We are talking Libya,
Again, we go back to when was the request initially made. & If it was a couple of weeks ago, ( Prior to 9/11), then, heres what they shoulda done. They shoulda stuck a team on a fast jet & got some people on the ground, EVALUATING the situation.
You guys act like we dont have this kinda stuff down to an ART..
We have The Worlds Premier Military, We have satellites, All the men & equipment had to come from somewhere. Could you get a team of men & equipment together to attack a place & somehow not stick out like a sore thumb in town? YOu think this event just sprang up & the average person in that town was shocked & amazed? I dont. I think the people we let die knew they were gonna get killed & asked for help & asked for it soon enough to get it OR,, ( remember the assessment team?) let the pros evaluate the situation & if its too hot to handle, Leave,, ),, BUT, that wasnt done,, It was handled as poorly as it could have been handled,  &, UNless someone can show me that they didnt ask for help until just a few days prior to 9/11, Cuz I believe they asked & asked & asked for a coupla weeks,


not just outside San Diego.. Nothing else short of armor would have done any good, we are talking mortars and RPG's against light arms, you could have put five more people on the ground and gotten the same results!

So, what youre saying here LOOKS to be

Well,, It doesnt matter that they asked for help & Nothing was done. America doesnt have the resources & ability to actually provide security, so, they were gonna die,

Again, why arent people Thinking ? What would YOU do, if you were responsible for the safety of some people in a Hot Spot & they asked you to send help? Nothing? Thats what they got, NOTHING,, & How is that defendable? Because Bush screwed up? I know what I would have done. I would have Hot Shotted a team in there to see what was going on & then I woulda either got my people out or brought in enough Marines to handle it, & Dont even try to tell me we dont have the $$$. WE have the $$ for everything we WANT to have the $$$ for,,


 You could go back in the records and most likely find EVERY consulate, EVERY embassy asking for more manpower!

I havent seen reports that indicated they were.


Twenty plus embassy's and consulates came under attack by protesters that day.

A protest isnt an attack,, I havent seen the news, but I dont remember any other place sustaining any real damage. I dont know of so much as a window knocked out or graffitti sprayed on a wall,., So, please, post up some evidence to these claims that youre using to allow yoursel;f to shrug this off so easily.,. Id like to be able to do the same,,



. So choose one.. Maybe you should ask "What happened to the funding for security?"..Oh yea, the GOP cut it..

& How many people would have been there had security budgets not been cut? 5? 6?,, what? YOu claim 5 or 6 more woulda made no difference, & Act as if thats reason enough to do nothing.

This was a Military Attack, RPG's are not what protesters have. Normal Security would have to be some Pretty Serious stuff to be able to fend off such an attack,


MOst offices have fire extinguishers around,( what they had) some even have sprinkler systems, ( what they had before budget cuts) butu, sometimes, ya just gotta dial 9/11 & get the fire department out to help.

They Called the fire department,,, over & over,, & no one came,

& when was that? & If the dems thot it such a bad idea, did they have the power to change it at any time prior to this attack>?





I REally want you to respond to my line by line points. I dont want a rant about Bush, I want to know what you would have done if you had gotten a call for help.,too.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #63 - 10/28/12 at 17:46:58
 
I guess I asked for a bit too much..
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #64 - 10/29/12 at 10:11:04
 
So, since no one has anything to say, Im gonna have to guess my points effectively countered the unsupportable ideas that had been put forth. I hope that those who have been countered have the guts to step back & THINK about things. Its time to stop being politically naive. There are reasons for decisions being made. They dont make mistakes, not like this.They have what is needed to address such things. WE fight wars all over the globe, you want me to believe we cant either defend that building or go get the people out? There are very experienced, well educated, professionals who understand threat evaluation, we have satellites  & people & we have the ABILITY to evaluate & respond to threats. So, the fact that the threat wasnt even evaluated, no response to the pleas for help, says something.,. Now, What it says is hard to know, we can only guess, but, one thing we can know, there was no response, no threat evaluation, no pulling our people. There are many potential answers, how that attack could have worked out to the benefit of Obama,
Heres a question for everyone to mull over.

What would it have done for Obama politically had they been taken hostage?> Could that have been a step, short of another war ( which historically helps the incumbent) to keep the people behind him, while he solves this new crisis?
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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #65 - 10/29/12 at 10:39:11
 
Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. The libs on this board have gone under cover like the MSM. Waiting and praying for this to blow over.

Chris Wallace had two Senator on Sunday and asked them point blank if the drones circling the attack going on in Benghazi were armed.  They refused to answer.  This is getting worse by the day. Obama better hope he’s not reelected because he ought to be impeached if the drones were armed and he gave the order not to fire.

As far as your question about hostages JOG; I tend to stick with the Occam’s razor line of thinking; look for the simplest explanation.  But, the question is, what is the simplest explanation for this debacle?  What really happened? We know it’s not what the White House is saying as that’s been contradicted over and over. I tend to think hostages would be no advantage since the last hostage situation put Jimmy Carter’s ineptness on full display. I originally thought it was obama being uninterested in the event and leaving it to others to handle, but if he was in the Situation Room, that’s unlikely.

It appears now he thought through his options and made a decision to let the events play out without intervention.  He had to have been told lives were at stake so he knew the risks.   So why? Was he concerned with having to deal with another ‘hot spot’ after his re-election? Using a drone to kill 20-30 terrorist wouldn’t have gone over very well with his base; did he conclude that a few dead American soldiers was better for reelection than 20-30 dead Muslim terrorist?
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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #66 - 10/29/12 at 14:23:45
 
  Here ya go, you can blow it up to whatever level you want, but the truth is, the President has taken responsibilty for any action or inaction. And the bottom line is that your hypocrite's Web/JOG, if you think this action/inaction is worse than the fraud and death Bush caused during his eight years in office..  

  I have better things to do than argue a mute point with people who won't face facts, and see a boogerman behind every corner..

 Here look at the facts and draw your own screwy conclusions..

http://wecheck.org/wiki/Benghazi_Attack_Timeline



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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #67 - 10/29/12 at 15:18:07
 
Retread; we're not talking about Bush. How long do you intend to go back in time? Are you planning on blaming US Grant for early Civil War battle losses?....

okay, i read thru your link. What's your point? My question still stands. did the drones have weapons?
if obama gave 'orders' as he said, where is the paper trail showing this?
who, specifically, said no to assistance?
taking responsiblility means what? not answering questions?.....

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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #68 - 10/29/12 at 16:22:53
 
Im not even gonna bother reading your link. I took the time to show you the logic, explain the situation & point out where your thinking doesnt hold water. Instead of admitting it & learning to see things from a realistic perspective, you hold onto your beliefs, even tho theyve been taken apart, logically, step by step. If you want to go back in time, go back to your post I dissected & counter my points. Otherwise, admit defeat & rethink things. Think from a Non Partisan perspective. I do, I would have used the same logic had the pres been a bub,, anything less is simply dishonest.
Until Americans stop allowing partisanship to direct their thinking, we are going to be taken advantage of by the criminals in DC.
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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #69 - 10/29/12 at 17:02:17
 
If he spent the 1/2 bill on security on the various embassies he'd have been ball busted for "Government waste ..."
Unless there is a blank check on the table from the repugs this is the numbers he had to play with ... The end ...

Cool.
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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #70 - 10/29/12 at 17:17:39
 
The idea he didn’t order an attack to protect the soldiers and the ambassador because he didn't want to or couldn’t spend money is absolutely ridiculous. Get real.
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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #71 - 10/29/12 at 17:30:35
 
 Nobody has taken apart nuts JOG, all you have done is MAKE nuts UP! Your logic escapes me and any other logical thinking person...  

  The drones were said to be surveilance drones only.. Even if they were armed, you would fire a hellfire, at what/who? Have you ever been in a fire fight? I have, and can tell you that confusing/fear, and known targets are few and far between. Most of the time your just trying to find solid cover and return fire without getting your head blown off! Of course you can make up anything you like, but nuts happens in war zones, and Libya is plainly a war zone, Stephens knew that and chose to stay..

  I'm not using a partisan outlook, I'm using a logical outlook.. And I'm open to anyone making a mistake, this includes the President, he would be the first to admit his mistakes and has in the past. He has taken full responsibility, what else can you do with this, what would you like to have done?

  If you think Romney could or would do a better job, vote for him! Just don't make nuts up. Romney has already proven he is not capable by his comments right after the incidents, those were not the actions of a leader.. They are the actions of a very small, uninformed person who is grasping for votes from a bunch of people who have never seen war..
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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #72 - 10/29/12 at 22:10:58
 
That you fail to follow what I said is only proof of your partisanship.


I want anyone who didnt understand what I was saying to please, say so.
\
Anyone who thot what I said was cogent & logical , please, say so.

]& BTW, I never mentioned drones, Drones were not part of the point I made, drones were either there or not there during the attack, The point I was making had nothing to do with the attack, itself, I was dealing with the weeks leading up to it,as you WELL know, Youre just deflecting, because I took your ridiculous assertions Apart.
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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #73 - 10/29/12 at 22:40:48
 
So, did Fox make it up? Did they just pull these names out of thin air? Im not about to say Fox doesnt LIE,, cuz I KNow they do,, so, the question remains, is this another lie? OR, are they the only ones who will report it? How can anyone know? I dont even know how to confirm there is or isnt a Seal team stationed nearby,, BUT, for your viewing pleasure,




Fox News has learned from sources who were on the ground in Benghazi
that an urgent request from the CIA annex for military back-up during
the attack on the U.S. Consulate and subsequent attack several hours
later was denied by U.S. officials — who also told the CIA operators
twice to “stand down” rather than help the ambassador’s team when shots
were heard at approximately 9:40 p.m. in Benghazi on Sept. 11.
Former Navy SEAL Tyrone Woods was part of a small team who was at the
CIA annex about a mile from the U.S. Consulate where Ambassador Chris
Stevens and his team came under attack. When he and others heard the
shots fired, they informed their higher-ups at the annex to tell them
what they were hearing and requested permission to go to the consulate
and help out. They were told to “stand down,” according to sources
familiar with the exchange. Soon after, they were again told to “stand
down.”
Woods and at least two others ignored those orders and made their way
to the Consulate which at that point was on fire. Shots were exchanged.
The quick reaction force from the CIA annex evacuated those who
remained at the Consulate and Sean Smith, who had been killed in the
initial attack. They could not find the ambassador and returned to the
CIA annex at about midnight.
At that point, they called again for military support and help
because they were taking fire at the CIA safe house, or annex. The
request was denied. There were no communications problems at the annex,
according those present at the compound. The team was in constant radio
contact with their headquarters. In fact, at least one member of the
team was on the roof of the annex manning a heavy machine gun when
mortars were fired at the CIA compound. The security officer had a laser
on the target that was firing and repeatedly requested back-up support
from a Specter gunship, which is commonly used by U.S. Special
Operations forces to provide support to Special Operations teams on the
ground involved in intense firefights. The fighting at the CIA annex
went on for more than four hours — enough time for any planes based in
Sigonella Air base, just 480 miles away, to arrive. Fox News has also
learned that two separate Tier One Special operations forces were told
to wait, among them Delta Force operators.
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Re: Why didnt the get more security?
Reply #74 - 10/30/12 at 06:51:36
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/29/12 at 22:40:48:
So, did Fox make it up? Did they just pull these names out of thin air? Im not about to say Fox doesnt LIE,, cuz I KNow they do,, so, the question remains, is this another lie? OR, are they the only ones who will report it? How can anyone know? I dont even know how to confirm there is or isnt a Seal team stationed nearby,, BUT, for your viewing pleasure,




Fox News has learned from sources who were on the ground in Benghazi
that an urgent request from the CIA annex for military back-up during
the attack on the U.S. Consulate and subsequent attack several hours
later was denied by U.S. officials — who also told the CIA operators
twice to “stand down” rather than help the ambassador’s team when shots
were heard at approximately 9:40 p.m. in Benghazi on Sept. 11.
Former Navy SEAL Tyrone Woods was part of a small team who was at the
CIA annex about a mile from the U.S. Consulate where Ambassador Chris
Stevens and his team came under attack. When he and others heard the
shots fired, they informed their higher-ups at the annex to tell them
what they were hearing and requested permission to go to the consulate
and help out. They were told to “stand down,” according to sources
familiar with the exchange. Soon after, they were again told to “stand
down.”
Woods and at least two others ignored those orders and made their way
to the Consulate which at that point was on fire. Shots were exchanged.
The quick reaction force from the CIA annex evacuated those who
remained at the Consulate and Sean Smith, who had been killed in the
initial attack. They could not find the ambassador and returned to the
CIA annex at about midnight.
At that point, they called again for military support and help
because they were taking fire at the CIA safe house, or annex. The
request was denied. There were no communications problems at the annex,
according those present at the compound. The team was in constant radio
contact with their headquarters. In fact, at least one member of the
team was on the roof of the annex manning a heavy machine gun when
mortars were fired at the CIA compound. The security officer had a laser
on the target that was firing and repeatedly requested back-up support
from a Specter gunship, which is commonly used by U.S. Special
Operations forces to provide support to Special Operations teams on the
ground involved in intense firefights. The fighting at the CIA annex
went on for more than four hours — enough time for any planes based in
Sigonella Air base, just 480 miles away, to arrive. Fox News has also
learned that two separate Tier One Special operations forces were told
to wait, among them Delta Force operators.


  This is a spin, look at my timeline.. Can't expect much from Faux news...
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