SuzukiSavage.com - Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #225 - 01/01/13 at 19:28:52

Eureka!!!
A real world example.

Man accidentally shoots himself in testicles

A man accidentally shot himself in the testicles at Lowe's Home Improvement store in Lynnwood Sunday afternoon, police said.

Seattle Times staff

A man accidentally shot himself in the testicles at Lowe's Home Improvement store in Lynnwood Sunday afternoon, police said.

The man's handgun, which was in the waistband of his pants, went off at about 12:30 p.m. — an apparent "accidental discharge," according to Shannon Sessions, a Lynnwood police spokeswoman.

"It made a loud noise and scared a lot of people in the store," Sessions said. "I believe he shot himself in the testicles and he also had some injuries to his leg and foot, and was bleeding profusely from his groin.
He was obviously in shock."

Nobody else was hurt and no one appeared to be with the man, she said.

Police and fire responded, and the man was rushed to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle before police had a chance to interview him extensively. Sessions had no further details about the man.

Lynnwood police are continuing to investigate but "at this point it does look like it's accidental," Sessions said. A manager at Lowe's said store personnel are not commenting on the incident.

(Darwin award...at least this fool won't be reproducing.)

Concealed gun owner shoots own buttocks and wounds children at Dallas Walmart

A licensed concealed handgun owner from Waco, Texas hurt more than his pride on Monday when his weapon accidentally discharged while he was reaching for his wallet at a Dallas Walmart store.

Police said that Todd Canady, 23, was in the checkout line when he fired the pistol he was carrying inside his pants.

(talk about clean-up in aisle three.)

Man accidently shoots self in Nevada theater – USATODAY.com
usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-

Aug 15, 2012 – SPARKS, Nev. (AP) — Police say a man accidently shot himself in the buttocks at a Nevada movie theater during a showing of "The Bourne ..

(I feel safer already just knowing these guys had loaded guns in their pants.)

Man accidently shoots himself and dies during CCW course in Missouri.
forum.opencarry.org › ... › Open Carry Brigade › This was a basic CCW class, not an advanced class

(...guess he won't be graduating on to the 'advanced' class.)

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #226 - 01/01/13 at 21:11:35

Gyrobob wrote on 01/01/13 at 18:15:52:

Retread wrote on 01/01/13 at 07:26:52:

The one thing all of the latest mass killings had in common, the shooters were insane. Now some think that more guns are the answer, they would be wrong. Some think that no guns are the answer, they would be wrong also..

What this nation needs is a wakeup call, the mentally incompetent are getting their hands on weapons, the NRA backs this action, even encourages it by shouting wolf everytime someone talks gun control.. The mentally ill and the paranoid run out to buy more weapons, proof is in the fact that most states have a run on guns right now, manufacters are hiring.. Over 6000 background checks in ONE day in Colorado alone!

Now we are on our way to a real warzone, the paranoid and the mentally ill are ready to pull the trigger, claim self defense, stand your ground, make my day hero's, leaving those of us who have owned weapons all our lives in a tough spot.. Weapons are not toys, they are not like buying a new car, they do not reflect status, THEY ARE A TOOL, a very deadly tool.. Using them, storing them, and handling them properly are part of your second amendment rights!!!! The words "Well Regulated" are there for all to see..

So unless we get responsible gun owners to back responsible regulation, we are asking for a nation of fools to turn this nation into a warzone. Background screening to include anyone who has been under a shrinks care, under the influence of anti-depressants, have mandatory safety classes which include securing weapons, and proficiency training.

Do you really expect anyone to believe the NRA wants insane people to have guns? Those kinds of statements toy with your credibility.

Lets see here, examine the facts.. They do not want any new controls on gun purchases.. They promote unregulated gun ownership... They promote MORE guns into the general public to combat gun violence.. And they promote paranoia into the equation..

YES, I would say they are promoting guns in the hands of the mentally deficient... I would also say backing their hand would not only toy with your credibility, but put you as a someone not responsible enough to own a gun....

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LANCER

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #227 - 01/02/13 at 03:50:43

The problem with screening for medical or mental conditions or type of med's a persons doctor may be prescribing them is ... how do you gain access to everyones private medical information without violating their rights to personal privacy ?
Going beyond a criminal background check is too dangerous where personal freedom is concerned constitutionally.
Most all of the anti-depressant med's are used for multiple purposes. I have been prescribed for almost 20 years a med that is like that, it can be used as an ananti-depressant but for me it is used as a migraine preventative. So where do you go with that ? There are so many combinations just in the med's category that trying to make FAIR laws governing that would be a nightmare.
When legislating an activity up front, requiring anyone to prove they are worthy, is the same as saying you are guilty until you can prove you are innocent. That is not the way we work things in this country; at least it wasn't when we were founded...innocent until proven guilty.
Can you have a cop arrest someone because you think he is going to harm you ? Nope. The cop will say he cannot do anything until a "crime is committed". Restricting a citizens right to keep arms before he has committed a crime is saying he "might commit a crime" so he must be stopped before he does. THAT DOES NOT FLY under the Constitution.
It is much to easy for a criminal to get a black market gun. Why don't we focus on the REAL problem, the BIGGEST problem, criminal activity.
99% of violent crime is cause by violent criminals involved in the commission of a crime. It is not the average law abiding person who likes guns..

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srinath

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #228 - 01/02/13 at 06:17:17

Lets try this mathemarically ... I am going to assume somethings and yes when the assumptions change the conclusion may change. I know that.

Lets call this a closed island country - which we are really, not. Then further lets assume there is a 100 people, and there are no guns. OK so now that we have all finished choking on that ... OK lets assume everything else is the same as now in the US.

Gun crime = 0, not all crime, just gun crime will be 0. Yes people will be killing each other with ping pongs, swimming pools etc, just not guns.

OK now here in this population I am going to assume 10% are criminals/whacko's/otherwise classifiable as lowlifes.

OK If now we were to hand out guns @ random ... we have a 10% possibility of getting it into the hands of a lowlife.

However we have people apply for the gun ... guess what, there is about 25% lets call them SCHLUB's who will never apply for a gun ... and the 10 lowlifes are the ones that will first run to apply.

In effect what we need to do is create a full blown gun application system. Then walk into the street, and hand guns out to anyone who is not on that application list.

Failing that, those that apply for guns, need to be severely scrutinised for not being a lowlife. In fact the 2 classes of people that will apply first for the gun are the lowlifes and the ones that have been threatened by the lowlifes.

So handing out guns to people not on the list, is again not fool proof, cos one of the lowlifes will then kill one of the ones that they have threatened in the past with a ping pong. And if its one thing you dont want, its to be killed by a ping pong. I mean that is really right on par with being killed by foosball.

I would seriously have guns only be saleable to someone after a full blown criminal and psych test. The past few mass shootings have all been by whacko's who didn't have criminal histories, except that Webster shooter.

The the va tech, theater, the school, the grocery store parking lot, all whacko's without criminal records.

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Srinath.

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WebsterMark

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #229 - 01/02/13 at 06:23:54

We could appy the same thought experiment to any issues. Drunk drivers, auto deaths, plane crashes, etc.....

There's a reason the phrase 'it's acedemic' was invented. It food for thought, not food for survival. Thought experiments are useful only if they can be scaled up to reality.

We have 300 million guns in this country.

I asked this question before and now that we are in thought experiment mode, go back before Columbine and pass a realistic law that would have stopped it.

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srinath

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #230 - 01/02/13 at 07:18:02

WebsterMark wrote on 01/02/13 at 06:23:54:

We could appy the same thought experiment to any issues. Drunk drivers, auto deaths, plane crashes, etc.....

There's a reason the phrase 'it's acedemic' was invented. It food for thought, not food for survival. Thought experiments are useful only if they can be scaled up to reality.

We have 300 million guns in this country.

I asked this question before and now that we are in thought experiment mode, go back before Columbine and pass a realistic law that would have stopped it.

Well one more of those very nice "lets talk about anything but guns as killers" mantra.

And - How far back before columbine ... and how wide sweeping ? as in, do I get only that school as my jurisdiction or the whole state or the whole country ?

I know, you'd say 1 day before columbine and I get to control only that school ? That is like fighting an atom bomb with a toothpick.

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #231 - 01/02/13 at 07:25:24

Gyrobob wrote on 12/31/12 at 17:55:45:

MShipley wrote on 12/31/12 at 17:11:06:

I was in St. Thomas hanging outside a store talking to the owner while my wife and friends shopped. (i never did like the shopping) anyway we were talking about the island and I asked how the crime was. He had an interesting answer. He stated there was virtually no crime between the locals because everyone knew that they all carried guns. He went on to say that the bad people on the island preyed on the tourist because they knew they were unarmed.

Eureka!!!

A real world example.

This is a bit of what Heinlein was saying,.. "An armed society is a polite society."

This is anecdoteal evidence. Not fact.
And - They are talking career criminals ... whacko's dont care who is armed. These fools usually shoot themselves @ the end of it.

Really, really self serving advice from the NRA. Like the judge @ a beauty contest who slept with 1 of the contestants ... and his solution was that to be fair, he should sleep with all of the contestants. Yea nice try NRA. Fool.

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #232 - 01/02/13 at 07:36:32

LANCER wrote on 12/31/12 at 04:41:42:

No govt being big is separate form this, flooding the street with guns, this is the side effects. Or we could tax the NRA membership fees if you so prefer. A 50% tax on gross sales receipt should be levied on all the movie studio's and actor's salaries who put out violent films. They encourage violence throughout our entire society.
Besides, those FAT CATS make way to much money anyway; they need to pay their FAIR SHARE.

This is a BS and completely facetious argument ... why ? Movies and video games in India also have a huge violent twist to them, obviously being an english speaking country (or a wannabe english speaking) we get all the hollywood fare ... and worse yet, the regional movies being cranked out try to out gun the hollywood ... 1/2 the hollywood CGI is written in India BTW, so we do all the explosions and the transformers and the crazy ass aliens etc etc anyway ...
Guess what, gun crime is really really low in india, and India is not low in crime either, crimes against women and crimes of all types are rampant ... just no 100 people dead in a gun rampage ... Its like 2 people dead when the guy known as "hammer man" hits em with a hammer and runs away. Or robberies where motorcycle robbers rob a pizza place and beat + tie everyone up and run away on their bikes etc etc.

There is a difference between movies and games and reality, and whacko's who dont know that, take guns out to the street and treat it like a video game ... either stop the whacko's from becoming whacko's or stop them from getting guns.
Stopping whacko's from becoming whacko's will be the biggest govt program in the history of the world. Stoppping them from getting guns, or bullets would be 1000 times cheaper. The end.

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #233 - 01/02/13 at 11:36:55

A young Indian woman who was gang-raped and severely beaten on a bus died Saturday at a Singapore hospital, after her horrific ordeal galvanized Indians to demand greater protection for women from sexual violence that impacts thousands of them every day.

Maybe those women in India ought to get some guns and start blasting away to protect themselves since no one else will....

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srinath

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #234 - 01/02/13 at 12:58:45

WebsterMark wrote on 01/02/13 at 11:36:55:

A young Indian woman who was gang-raped and severely beaten on a bus died Saturday at a Singapore hospital, after her horrific ordeal galvanized Indians to demand greater protection for women from sexual violence that impacts thousands of them every day.

Maybe those women in India ought to get some guns and start blasting away to protect themselves since no one else will....

Ohhh god yes, except there is likely to be a lot of panic shootings then. They will then cover up their shooting by saying he was a rapist, then there will be cases of people stealing the gun and killing people like the Idiots have done in the last few killings in the US, like the webster guy, sandy hook guy, Va Tech guy, Arizona parking lot guy etc etc etc. They were all too crazy/criminals to get themselves a gun ... yet they managed just that.

Dont need a new dimension to the problem in India. Mace/pepper spray may be a better bet.

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #235 - 01/02/13 at 13:02:06

Gyrobob wrote on 12/31/12 at 17:54:44:

bill67 wrote on 12/31/12 at 16:38:05:

Its just common sense if theirs twice as many guns out there next year,It will be twice as easy for the kooks to get them.And the guns aren't the normal guns that people were buying before.The NRA president made $970000 last year.Peoples you are going to have to use your heads.

Wrong again bill. If there are twice as many guns it will have no effect on bad guys having guns at all. They have never had any difficulty getting all the guns they want. If every McDs had a supply of AR-15s to sell to anyone who could pass a background check, it would make no difference at all to how many bad guys had guns.

If we had 100 million Ruger Mini-14s for sale all over the country right now, the only effect it would have is that the ratio of armed good guys vs armed bad guys would improve.

Your ilk makes so many senseless assumptions,.. the primary of which is that creating laws that make guns harder to get will have an effect on those who don't obey laws. sheesh.

bill,... use your head,.... people who don't care about breaking laws don't care about breaking gun laws. Making more gun laws does not affect anyone who doesn't care about breaking the law. The bad guys don't worry about gun laws because they don't worry about laws at all. Criminals have all the guns they want because they don't have to worry about the laws that we law-abiders must abide by. How many different ways do we need to say it?

Sorry I would say wrong again ... Bill is closer to being right.

The last many mass killings have all been at the hands of nuts who were never supposed to get a gun. If gun availability has doubled, there would be 2 X as many ... maybe not 2 X, maybe more like 1.9 X as many ... maybe. I'd like to think whacko's would be the critical mass there ... if gun availability doubles, the world will run out of whacko's ... he he.

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #236 - 01/02/13 at 13:38:45

LANCER wrote on 01/02/13 at 03:50:43:

The problem with screening for medical or mental conditions or type of med's a persons doctor may be prescribing them is ... how do you gain access to everyones private medical information without violating their rights to personal privacy ?
Going beyond a criminal background check is too dangerous where personal freedom is concerned constitutionally.
Most all of the anti-depressant med's are used for multiple purposes. I have been prescribed for almost 20 years a med that is like that, it can be used as an ananti-depressant but for me it is used as a migraine preventative. So where do you go with that ? There are so many combinations just in the med's category that trying to make FAIR laws governing that would be a nightmare.
When legislating an activity up front, requiring anyone to prove they are worthy, is the same as saying you are guilty until you can prove you are innocent. That is not the way we work things in this country; at least it wasn't when we were founded...innocent until proven guilty.
Can you have a cop arrest someone because you think he is going to harm you ? Nope. The cop will say he cannot do anything until a "crime is committed". Restricting a citizens right to keep arms before he has committed a crime is saying he "might commit a crime" so he must be stopped before he does. THAT DOES NOT FLY under the Constitution.
It is much to easy for a criminal to get a black market gun. Why don't we focus on the REAL problem, the BIGGEST problem, criminal activity.
99% of violent crime is cause by violent criminals involved in the commission of a crime. It is not the average law abiding person who likes guns..

Were the last three mass shootings comitted by a criminal? No, they were comitted by the insane, the mentally ill.. And if your under a shrinks care and he deems you violent, or a danger to yourself or others he CAN have you put in a mental facility, no one is saying someone is guilty of anything, just not competent to own a firearm! The latest DUI laws deem a person guilty until proven innocent, try refusing a toxicology test, see what happens...

If you are under a shrinks care and he deems you violent, a danger to others, or suicidal, moves should be made to restrict your access to guns, PERIOD...

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13885 Gender:	Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children. Reply #237 - 01/02/13 at 15:27:33 how many of those who committed the last 3 mass shootings were under a doctor's care? if it turns out Lanza was under a doctor's care and he didn't force him to be admitted, is he then liable?
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srinath

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #238 - 01/02/13 at 20:05:56

Guys, please stop referring to these a$$holes by their names. They dont need to be remembered, they did it to be martyred. We do not encourage other whacko's to follow in their footsteps so they will have died and remain unknown.

The theater guy, the arizona parking lot guy, the Va tech guy and the Webster guy all had their own guns. The webster guy was released after a 17yr prison sentence for killing his grand mother. No problem, he needs a gun. The other nut jobs bought the guns as well just fine.

The sandy hook guy didn't buy guns, he got em from his mommy.

Looks like the fool proof system of checking the purchaser is working ...

Guys, psych profile not just criminal background checks , cos the whacko's are going to get their hands on guns otherwise. Even a psych profile wont work if Mommy will give the guns to the whacko kid ... of course she was dead, but still ... Nice firing guns to the whacko ...

In any case, Va tech and the arizona parking lot guy was on medication for some severe mental issues (not sure paranoia I think in the Va tech case)

I think you gun nuts are following the NRA's talking points perfectly, and they are running you clear off the edge of sanity.

Psych profile and trigger locks, and you not a criminal, and not a whacko, no worries you can get your gun, and it will not fire when someone else get it from you.

I have a question, when a whacko gets a gun, does he get NRA membership too ? How about a criminal ?

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srinath

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Re: Associated Press: 27 Dead, 20 Are Children.
Reply #239 - 01/02/13 at 20:07:01

WebsterMark wrote on 01/02/13 at 15:27:33:

how many of those who committed the last 3 mass shootings were under a doctor's care?
if it turns out Lanza was under a doctor's care and he didn't force him to be admitted, is he then liable?

Of course yea anything but the gun is liable ...

Then if the guy was sent to an asylum, wont you be screaming about big government and how Obama is robbing you blind ?

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