Mship; the Southern Baptist did it for years knowing most of their congregation never really read things on their own. Truth eventually won out, but it took a long time.

There are not many left who try to sneak it by like Star did. I'd like to think their numbers are shrinking, but i'm not sure that's the case.

See, I skipped this thread because I didnt care how they labled gun (Assualt or not). But then yall got into the larger picture.  So I might as well chip in on my position.

2nd amendment:
The second amendment was put in place it ensure the checks and balances of a new centralized goverment, the that states were fearful may become a new tyrant. After all the US was created by terrorist and rebels. Thus the people were instilled with the right to use force (guns bombs anything) in order to protect that which they had fought so hard for - personal liberty.

After the "civil war", the US supreme court stated that the US goverment was RIGHT to go to war with the states as seccesion is Illegal and the the ONLY form of LEGAL force is revolt. (as in by citizens with their OWN weapons). This then re-affirms the value of the 2nd amendment.

Now as has been pointed out, the civilian guns we have is completely unable to the current US government. But thats not the point, the point is.. we have the right to do so. And it is that right that forms part of the checks and balances that makes up all the functional parts of the goverment.

As to gun ownership (other than 2nd amendment): it is the history of the US that each citizen is allowed by law and thus to that extent obligated to self protection. Which is to say, that no entity ever created in the US exists to provide protection to citizens at large. The Secret Service is the ONLY entity ever created to "provide protection", and they do so to a select group. All others are Law enforcment. They enforce law, and seek out those that break the law. They do not protect.  Whether you agree with this or not, it is how it has been since the beginning and is today.

No country that has denied its citizens the ablity to defend themselves as addressed this issue. I think becasue, taken to a logical conclusion... it would be unacceptable to even the most ardent gun haters.  I would love for a country to actually look at doing such, and to actually do so in a completely fair and transparent manner. Then allow people to either live there or freely leave. It would collaspe in days.

Is having a gun in every home without faults? no, as we see, crazies will do as they please, as will outright criminals. But it creates the freest society on the planet, a place where others flock and fight to get in.

I have guns. I have no intention of giving them up quietly. Gun ownership is my right and my heritage.

Srith:
I think you have been diligent in your quest to put fourth gun ownership ideas, I commend you. However, we will have to agree to disagree. Having toy guns with toy ammo controlled by a central goverment does not work within the framework of the 2nd amendment. The goverment should fear the armament of its people, that is balance.

As to God given rights- God gaves us the rights. the framers only acknowledged that grant. What man or governmert can grant.. man and goverment can ( legally) take away.

As to Stars attempt to train wreck the thread with Bible versus and such. Yes, we must pick and choose what right and what was not. Treatment of native american indians was/is an abonimation as was slavery, as was the statehood of Hawiai.  You know full well the story and the guilt that goes along with that history. But your taunts are a mockery of the truths and and the unfolding events that put those aright. Over 600,000 people died in the US "Civil War' more than in the next 4 wars combined. We grew, we corrected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MAVGkU7_OQ4#!

Tough to argue against that, criminals will have illegal weapons regardless of the laws.  automatic weapons are banned in Cali and at the time, assalt rifles were also banned.  They had body armor on, they wanted a confortation.  The lack of high powered weaponry by law abiding citizens prevented a timely response.  Cops were scouring gun shops for something to fight with.

Of course, these guys had a death wish.  Every criminal that wants a chance to be successful in getting the money and not being caught knows it has to happen quick and to get the hell out of dodge before jonny law shows up.

What part of illegal weapons and ammo don't you get?

raise the price to a $1,000 a shot, just means john doe won't have any.

what's the price of a full auto ak47 vs. a semi-auto ak?
What's the price in mexico?  if it's illegal here, aren't going to just walk across the border?

My idea of "Gun Control" is already in practice with other, far more deadly items, and nobody seems to object.



Does that appear acceptable, or would somebody still have anything to object ?

Considering there are far more cars on the roads than guns at shhting ranges...  

Just heard on tv a few years ago in China a man went into grade school and stabbed over 20 kids,They all lived. What every Obama decides to do will be the right thing.