SuzukiSavage.com - What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment

srinath

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #15 - 01/16/13 at 06:32:45

WebsterMark wrote on 01/16/13 at 05:59:53:

You cannot undo one of the foundational bricks and expect to avoid sinking down just a little.

More of these random out of context mixed metaphors I see.
Ron Paul wanted to repeal the 14th amendment. And all the Ron paul nuts glazed over that ... and now by regulating the second amendment all the repug nuts have their panties in a bunch ... Nice double speak.

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12Bravo

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #16 - 01/16/13 at 10:53:31

WebsterMark wrote on 01/16/13 at 05:59:53:

How many got this correct? Only a couple.

The heart of the 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights is about the last line of defense of a free nation. Governments lose wars and get overrun or they turn against their own citizens.

The freedoms given to the citizens of this nation 200+ years ago are the reason we prosper to this day. Yes, at times the day to day responsibilities of a free nation can be messy. Yes, it can be very hard, yes, it is often tinged with the both the good and the bad, but individual freedom is the fabric that produced us.

You cannot undo one of the foundational bricks and expect to avoid sinking down just a little.

You cannot, with a wave of a hand and a single signature on a piece of paper, change the definition of ‘the rights of the people shall not be infringed’.

Well said. ALL OF THE 10 AMENDMENTS IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.

I've heard the argument that the 2nd was never meant to deal with modern firearms. We can say the same about the 1st since the founders never envisioned electronic communications. We better restrict the 1st to quill and paper.

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srinath Serious Thumper Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 5349	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #17 - 01/16/13 at 12:05:47 Dude ... There is more than 10 amendments. And all of those have been threatened by various politicians over the last few years. Cool. Srinath.
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12Bravo Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 628 Mid-Missouri Gender:	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #18 - 01/16/13 at 12:31:56 12Bravo wrote on 01/16/13 at 10:53:31: Well said. ALL OF THE 10 AMENDMENTS IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT. I know there are more. As you can see I was talking about the Bill of Rights which contains 10. And you are right, politicians from both parties have and continue to attack our rights.
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srinath

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #19 - 01/16/13 at 15:07:47

12Bravo wrote on 01/16/13 at 12:31:56:

12Bravo wrote on 01/16/13 at 10:53:31:

Well said. ALL OF THE 10 AMENDMENTS IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.

I know there are more. As you can see I was talking about the Bill of Rights which contains 10. And you are right, politicians from both parties have and continue to attack our rights.

Some of them deserve to get shredded.
The 14th amendment has been used, abused and raped.
It has attracted the trash like a 10c per can and bottle of michigan. That coupled with the medical insurance for all will bankrupt our country.

Throw that out along with the 80 million illegals and their anchor babies.

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LANCER

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #20 - 01/17/13 at 04:11:30

2011 FBI stat's

10,000+ deaths by firarms nationwide
300+ were by rifles of all types
33 were by "assault rifles"

That is a "staggering" 0.33% by assault rifles

Yep, making assault rifles unlawful sure does make a lot of sense, doesn't it ? ? ? ?

What is not specified is what percentage of the total gun deaths occurred during the commission of a crime.
My guess would be that it is more than 90%.

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srinath

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #21 - 01/17/13 at 05:50:24

True lancer ... but the NRA wont let a sensible ban go through.

Assault rifles and semi auto ones with high capacity magazines were the weapons of choice for whacko's in most of the shootings. Theater, sikh temple, AZ parking lot, University, sandy hook ... I saw that number @ 282 for 2012. Out of 19,000 gun murders. I am not sure if that includes justified.
That is something under 1.5%. That would be the target of any gun ban if I were to write legislation.

See most gun murders are in a way accidental ... as in they try to rob a convenience store, and the clerk puts up a fight. Its during the commission of a crime. That is going to be very very hard to stop. However those are all small size guns. Most - 98.5% of gun crimes, the criminal hopes to not use the gun. Actually I take that back, there is probably a few drive by's, gang related, and killings of snitches/informants and other similar.

OK We're not gonna be able to stop much of all that. We should stop the 282 ... or reduce it drastically.

A $100 bullet with $99 as a flat tax to the federal govt will have a choke out effect on all of it though. Those that did use it for self defence will get replacements without the govt $99 tax on them.

Bullets have been stock piled. They will be useful to the owners, and useless to anyone else. It is worth something, you can secretly sell it, but since it wont be in factory sealed baggies, it will not get the $100 ... it could be worth a bit more than the original $ paid for it. That way no one gets a windfall ... and you have bullets for your current use.

The NRA isn't going to let anything sensible happen.
The Gun laws are 100,000 pages with 5,000 pages saying what cant be, and 95,000 pages saying what the loopholes are. Its enshrined in the constitution. We can watch these whacko's do these things every month. However the country has shifted away from the NRA's position as a whole. The whole RMoney vs Obama debate here was very close, out in the real world, it was done and dusted by 11pm election night.

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13887 Gender:	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #22 - 01/17/13 at 05:58:05 Out of 19,000 gun murders Where did you get 19,000 gun murders?
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #23 - 01/17/13 at 05:59:59 When I was young and growing up in the 1950's,All the young boys liked 22's, lever action,single shots,pumps.Todays kids wouldn't want a candy a$$ gun like that,They would want a AK type gun.Ok what will the kids 10 years from now want.Theres has to be a stopping point somewheres along the line.
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Paraquat Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2206	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #24 - 01/17/13 at 06:12:33 I still like bolt action .22's... but I imagine it's like eating out or being married. You don't want the same thing every time. Sometimes you want to step up your game a bit and sometimes you don't even want to leave the house. Sometimes I drive slow to work and sometimes I crack the throttle and fly. --Steve
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srinath

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #25 - 01/17/13 at 07:54:21

WebsterMark wrote on 01/17/13 at 05:58:05:

Out of 19,000 gun murders

Where did you get 19,000 gun murders?

I read it somewhere - But I cant find it now, and I think since I am seeing around 9,000 - it may be the total of all murders.
The 282 is the count of all the massacres - that I can find all over the place.
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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #26 - 01/17/13 at 07:54:36

Paraquat wrote on 01/17/13 at 06:12:33:

I still like bolt action .22's... but I imagine it's like eating out or being married. You don't want the same thing every time. Sometimes you want to step up your game a bit and sometimes you don't even want to leave the house.
Sometimes I drive slow to work and sometimes I crack the throttle and fly.

--Steve

That's true Steve. And that's why shotguns are so much fun. You can buy one shotgun and with choke tubes,interchangeable barrels (both long and short)pistol grips,scopes,fiberoptic and laser sights and ammo ranging from #8 bird shot to buckshot and sabot deer slugs you can shoot a different gun every weekend. And in 20ga even your girlfriend and kids can use one.

If only marriage was so adaptable Sad

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13887 Gender:	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #27 - 01/17/13 at 15:30:42 If only marriage was so adaptable Bitter, party of one, your table's ready; bitter, party of one..... I hear you bro...
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LANCER

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #28 - 01/20/13 at 00:35:02

bill67 wrote on 01/17/13 at 05:59:59:

When I was young and growing up in the 1950's,All the young boys liked 22's, lever action,single shots,pumps.at will the kids 10 years from now want.Theres has to be a stopping point. Todays kids wouldn't want a candy a$$ gun like that,They would want a AK type gun.Ok wh somewheres along the line.

And why is that ?
Perhaps if the movie makers and video game makers would choose a different subject the mass audience would not want this type of gun.
After all, the movie makers in particular are some of the loudest advocates of gun control ... as long as they are free to have body guards who carry an arsenal with them and are exempt from the gun control laws.
We of course ... the dumb sheep ... NEED to be controlled because we cannot be trusted with guns like the "Important people".

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #29 - 01/20/13 at 00:51:56

srinath wrote on 01/17/13 at 05:50:24:

True lancer ... but the NRA wont let a sensible ban go through.
What is sensible ? Your idea or my idea ? Since I have more experience with guns then I choose my idea.

Assault rifles and semi auto ones with high capacity magazines were the weapons of choice for whacko's in most of the shootings. Theater, sikh temple, AZ parking lot, University, sandy hook ... I saw that number @ 282 for 2012. Out of 19,000 gun murders. I am not sure if that includes justified.
That is something under 1.5%. That would be the target of any gun ban if I were to write legislation.

See most gun murders are in a way accidental ... as in they try to rob
I would agree that most gun murders happen during the commission of a crime ... and by definition that is NOT "accidental".

a convenience store, and the clerk puts up a fight. Its during the commission of a crime. That is going to be very very hard to stop. However those are all small size guns. Most - 98.5% of gun crimes, the criminal hopes to not use the gun. Actually I take that back, there is probably a few drive by's, gang related, and killings of snitches/informants and other similar.

OK We're not gonna be able to stop much of all that. We should stop the 282 ... or reduce it drastically.
How do YOU propose to do that ? The guns will not listen when you tell them to not shoot anyone, so the only thing left is to tell the crazy people to not do it. How do you find them before they do it ? IF found, how do you convince them not to do it ?
Crazy people don't listen very well, you know ?

A $100 bullet with $99 as a flat tax to the federal govt will have a choke out effect on all of it though. Those that did use it for self defence will get replacements without the govt $99 tax on them.

Bullets have been stock piled. They will be useful to the owners, and useless to anyone else. It is worth something, you can secretly sell it, but since it wont be in factory sealed baggies, it will not get the $100 ... it could be worth a bit more than the original $ paid for it. That way no one gets a windfall ... and you have bullets for your current use.
Hmmm, a communist style controlled government, that's the answer.

The NRA isn't going to let anything sensible happen.
The Gun laws are 100,000 pages with 5,000 pages saying what cant be, and 95,000 pages saying what the loopholes are. Its enshrined in the constitution. We can watch these whacko's do these things every month. However the country has shifted away from the NRA's position as a whole. The whole RMoney vs Obama debate here was very close, out in the real world, it was done and dusted by 11pm election night.

Cool.
Srinath.

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