SuzukiSavage.com - What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment

srinath

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #30 - 01/20/13 at 02:27:38

Well you said the NRA supports all the laws ... and these laws are on the books.
A full on database on who cant own a gun as well as a private sale database update. It has been circumvented with loopholes ... but it does exist.

I think a 100 buck bullet will work far more effectively than a registry.
There will be quite a few gun nuts who wont register ... However they wont let Benny franklin bills lying around either. It will accomplish all the good of the tightest gun control laws you can write, and do none of the bad.

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Srinath.

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srinath

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #31 - 01/20/13 at 02:42:15

[quote author=6362797E716478100 link=1357999747/15#21 date=1358430624]True lancer ... but the NRA wont let a sensible ban go through.
What is sensible ? Your idea or my idea ? Since I have more experience with guns then I choose my idea.

That would be a classic case of the "nuts running the nuthouse"

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Starlifter Serious Thumper Offline It only snows seven months of the year here. Posts: 3746 Eastern Michigan Gender:	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #32 - 01/20/13 at 13:06:37 +1000
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #33 - 01/21/13 at 05:08:19

srinath wrote on 01/17/13 at 05:50:24:

True lancer ... but the NRA wont let a sensible ban go through.

Assault rifles and semi auto ones with high capacity magazines were the weapons of choice for whacko's in most of the shootings. Theater, sikh temple, AZ parking lot, University, sandy hook ... I saw that number @ 282 for 2012. Out of 19,000 gun murders. I am not sure if that includes justified.
That is something under 1.5%. That would be the target of any gun ban if I were to write legislation.

See most gun murders are in a way accidental ... as in they try to rob a convenience store, and the clerk puts up a fight. Its during the commission of a crime. That is going to be very very hard to stop. However those are all small size guns. Most - 98.5% of gun crimes, the criminal hopes to not use the gun. Actually I take that back, there is probably a few drive by's, gang related, and killings of snitches/informants and other similar.

OK We're not gonna be able to stop much of all that. We should stop the 282 ... or reduce it drastically.

A $100 bullet with $99 as a flat tax to the federal govt will have a choke out effect on all of it though. Those that did use it for self defence will get replacements without the govt $99 tax on them.

Bullets have been stock piled. They will be useful to the owners, and useless to anyone else. It is worth something, you can secretly sell it, but since it wont be in factory sealed baggies, it will not get the $100 ... it could be worth a bit more than the original $ paid for it. That way no one gets a windfall ... and you have bullets for your current use.

The NRA isn't going to let anything sensible happen.
The Gun laws are 100,000 pages with 5,000 pages saying what cant be, and 95,000 pages saying what the loopholes are. Its enshrined in the constitution. We can watch these whacko's do these things every month. However the country has shifted away from the NRA's position as a whole. The whole RMoney vs Obama debate here was very close, out in the real world, it was done and dusted by 11pm election night.

Cool.
Srinath.

MMMmHHHmmm,, I think I get it,,heres the logic

Lefty Lawmaker says

Well,, One thing is certain, the NRA will not allow a reasonable piece of legislation to go thru, SO, Ill write a Reeeetarded peice of legislation & see if that gets traction! SOOO, Lets ban RIFLES!!! Rifles, used in fewer killings that hands & feet!

LAME!, still, Sri

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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srinath Serious Thumper Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 5349	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #34 - 01/21/13 at 12:33:01 No one is banning rifles. I want to tax bullets. I want to ban small concealable guns and high capacity magazines and armor piercing bullets. In any case, tax a bullet. Refund the bullet, when used in true self defence. Cool. Srinath.
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Paraquat

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #35 - 01/22/13 at 06:17:38

srinath wrote on 01/21/13 at 12:33:01:

No one is banning rifles.
Cool.
Srinath.

Quote:

Legislators in Hartford are in the process of destroying your Second Amendment rights by exploiting recent tragedies. Gov. Malloy, Sen. Beth Bye, and Rep. Bob Godfrey want outright bans and onerous restrictions on your rights through an enormous number of Anti-Gun Bills. Here are a few of the items included in one of their proposals:

An outright ban on ALL modern sporting rifles classifying them as "Assault Weapons."
Restricting your ability to defend yourself and family by arbitrarily restricting the magazine size to 10 rounds.
Confiscating ALL magazines holding more than 10 rounds, pistols included.
Statewide gun registration for ALL firearms; knowing full well criminals won't ever register their guns.
Re-registration every 2 years with ever increasing fees.
Requires permit for any rifle with a pistol grip.
Limiting how much ammunition you can purchase AND possess.
Registration of all ammunition purchases.
Bans internet sales of ammo in Connecticut.
Mandatory gun storage laws, like the one the U.S. Supreme Court struck down in the Heller decision.

There are roughly 10,000 firearm related jobs here in CT including Colt, Mossberg, Ruger, Stag Arms and then companies that produce magazines like OKAY Industries, New Helvetica, Ronin Corp.
Assume head of household and assume 2.3 children per family. 10,000 adults will lose their jobs and 23,000 kids and suffer as a result.

Uncool.

--Steve

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #36 - 01/22/13 at 09:02:17 He doesnt even know whats happening,
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #37 - 01/22/13 at 09:19:08 Thats as dumb as,We shouldn't fine a cure for cancer,Look how many doctors would be put out of work.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #38 - 01/22/13 at 09:26:56 It would be interesting to see what Bills talkin about
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Pine

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #39 - 01/22/13 at 15:32:35

WebsterMark wrote on 01/12/13 at 06:09:07:

Rather than focus on specific weapons, shouldn’t we once again (or perhaps for the first time for others) consider the very basis of gun ownership to begin with?

What does the 2nd amendment really and truly mean? Who or what does it protect? The Bills Of Rights for the most part, places limits on what activities government can restrict. So, is this amendment about the rights of the very few in this nation today who use guns to actually hunt for their foods? Is it about protecting the firearm choices of deer, duck or turkey hunters? Does it protect restrictions against the millions who use guns recreationally like skeet shooting, target practice, or just walking through the woods and plinking beer cans? Is that what the 2nd amendment protects?
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I’d be curious to read other’s thoughts on what’s at the very heart of the 2nd amendment, what’s at the heart of the Bill of Rights as a whole. Do we really want to voluntarily limit further what we can and cannot do? What we can and cannot own?

I waitied kinda late... sorry:

To me, the second amendment was created because the 13 states had just thrown off a tyrant King and were extremely wary of running head-long into a new tyrant "central government". Indeed the idea as I see is that power given to the central government does not include the abilty of the central government to disarm the citizens that put them in power.

What this meant then is now of course very different than what it means today... and yet... it still holds of power in the hands of the poeple. Those that say, ( rightly) that given current laws the people can no longer take on the central government. True, we dont have A_bombs, or planes, or tanks. But I dont think the threat of an a-bomb being dropped on NYC just to take out one guy is realistic either, nor a tank, nor fighter jet... though the new drones... well. The point isn't that one man or even an army of men could take on the entire US arsenal... but they cant be spirited away ... quietely either. He cant just be beaten by one FBI agent with a club. No... any act of the government must be loud... guns must be used.. and people will die. AND that does still have power.

I find it comical that even you "gun ban" nuts cant get away from talking about the guns. Why are you discussing 22's. The OP was about rights... about the constitution. The less access any law-abiding citizen has to a gun... the less access all americans have to the rest of the constitution.. life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. The checks and balances will be broken ( more so than now).

Those that would give up liberty for security will have and deserve neither: B. Franklin

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Starlifter

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #40 - 01/22/13 at 16:46:50

Paraquat you are just parroting more NRA hysterical bullsh!t to drive you and others to such panic that you will flood the NRA with your hard earned money, and then go out and buy another trunk load of guns and a few thousand more rounds of ammo.

Confiscating ALL magazines holding more than 10 rounds, pistols included.

Confiscating magazines indeed.

And just how is the state going to go about enterinng your home and confiscate magazines.

Do you not see how you are being used by this kind of nonsense?

Like this:

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) addressed supporters in a frantically toned email on Monday, warning them of a looming effort to snatch up their guns.

"You and I are literally surrounded. The gun-grabbers in the Senate are about to launch an all-out-assault on the Second Amendment. On your rights. On your freedom," reads the opening of the email, according to The Hill.

"They're coming for your guns," the email exhorts.

This is in Article I, Section 8: Powers of Congress

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress...

We all know that the Second Amendment says this:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

If Article I says the government shall be responsible for organizing and arming the Militia, which means among other things deciding what guns the Militia should have, and the Second Amendment says that this Militia is necessary to the security of a free State, could it then not follow that the government can decide it should not be equipped with weapons like Bushmasters and AK-47s?

Any workable ban on these guns must get away from what doomed the last one. There was a long list of appearance things: if it has a flash suppressor and a bayonet lug it's illegal, but no bayonet lug and it is. It didn't address functionality.

Simply write the ban to eliminate:
Semiautomatic rifles with detachable magazines
Shotguns with detachable magazines
Pistol magazines that when seated protrude from the base of the grip more than the diameter of one cartridge

...from being manufactured or imported 30 days after the date of enactment.

Prohibit ammunition sales over the Internet.

Prohibit non-Federal Firearms License holders from ordering guns online.

The easiest way to accurately write the legislation is to not use the term "assault weapon" in it.

Most right-wingers I run into hardly have a pot to piss in...
It's not the millionaires out there posting their right-wing bullsh!t. It's generally the under educated, easily fooled who constantly vote against their self interests.

...And just why are those of the gun culture so absoultely TERRIFIED of everything?? The government, neighbors, other people, their own shadows?? I just don't get this depth of fear...

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LANCER

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #41 - 01/23/13 at 04:01:17

[quote author=2223383F302539510 link=1357999747/30#31 date=1358678535]srinath wrote on 01/17/13 at 05:50:24:

True lancer ... but the NRA wont let a sensible ban go through.
What is sensible ? Your idea or my idea ? Since I have more experience with guns then I choose my idea.

That would be a classic case of the "nuts running the nuthouse"

Cool.
Srinath.

I'm a nut for believing what the Constitution says ?
Do you believe in the Freedom of Speech ?
It says that too.
Are you a nut for believing what the Constitution says about that ?

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment Reply #42 - 01/23/13 at 05:41:32 Yes I believe in freedom of speech too.The next time I go to the dollar store,I'm going to tell the cute girl at the check out she has a nice a$$ and tits too,Do you want to f--k.See theres a limit to the 1st and 2nd amendment of whats right to do.
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Paraquat

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #43 - 01/23/13 at 06:10:49

Starlifter wrote on 01/22/13 at 16:46:50:

Paraquat you are just parroting more NRA hysterical bullsh!t to drive you and others to such panic that you will flood the NRA with your hard earned money, and then go out and buy another trunk load of guns and a few thousand more rounds of ammo.

No, I am not parroting anything here. These are actual laws proposed by my state's governor.

--Steve

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srinath

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Re: What's at the heart of the 2nd Amendment
Reply #44 - 01/23/13 at 11:17:59

State level, city level and county level and gun free zone Bull does not work.
Your state may be run by a retard ... or your city or your school ...
Whatever is going to be done has to be nation wide, and we need to get canada and mexico to go along. Then we need to wait for the excess to get itself flushed out.

IMHO the fastest thing that will work is a $100 a bullet. Bullets being made 1 @ a time, put in numbered vacuum packed baggies and $99 go to the fed off the top. The flush out will happen very very very quick. Gun nuts will instantly lock up all their ammo. We then have achieved the 2 steps we need in rather rapid succession. Again 1 state cant tax a bullet ... they will just go next state over.

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