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Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again! (Read 18433 times)
Dave
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #450 - 08/18/25 at 07:38:10
 
I went for a 40 mile ride yesterday.

The bike is running great and is a joy to ride.....the 94mm Wiseco Flat top piston really is working well.

After 40 miles I did have a few oil spots in the usual place.  I looked the cylinder over and could not see the source....the front of the head gasket appear dry as does the cylinder stud nut under the exhaust port.

I am going to clean this oil off and put some miles on it, and the source of the leak will likely show up once it has a chance to accumulate some dust on the engine.

On the next rainy day that I can't get yard work done, I will likely remove the head cover and removed, clean and torque all the cylinder studs.
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Dave
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #451 - Yesterday at 16:37:38
 
Well the bike came apart today to fix the oil leak.

The cam and rockers look excellent!

This is a Webcam Stage 3 from Lancer.
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Dave
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #452 - Yesterday at 16:39:00
 
When the head cam off - you can see the oil on the stock Suzuki multi-ply head gasket.

When I pulled the head gasket off and dried it off - the crimped bead was flattened everywhere, and the plies had a thin coating of oil all through them.
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Dave
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #453 - Yesterday at 16:43:32
 
The top of the piston with 500 miles of break in oil and a somewhat easy riding with limited full throttle use (no extended speed runs).  However I did ride at 60-70 mph a few times.

There is a light carbon accumulation in the center - the edges have the Cerakote thermal barrier showing.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #454 - Yesterday at 16:44:29
 
The cylinder still has the cross hatch.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #455 - Yesterday at 16:45:36
 
The piston skirts look pretty good overall.

There is also no carbon along the sides of the piston at the rings.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #456 - Yesterday at 16:47:05
 
The bottom of the piston is squeaky clean!
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Dave
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #457 - Yesterday at 16:50:41
 
I removed the rings from the piston and cleaned up the cylinder and piston.

I checked the clearance using a feeler gauge - a 0.005" feeler gauge was a pretty tight fit.  The Wiseco specified minimum clearance is 0.0025" for this piston.

The cylinder was a pretty good looking one - the best stock 94mm cylinder that I had.  However - it may be the wear is a bit excessive and is allowing the piston to mover around a bit.

There is wear on the bottom edge of the piston skirt.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #458 - Yesterday at 16:51:38
 
This is the other side.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #459 - Yesterday at 17:01:52
 
I am going to take the piston and cylinder and get the clearance measured by my friends at a machine shop.

I am then going to send the piston to Line2Line coatings to get an abradable piston skirt coating applied.  This coating will reduce the clearance and allow the piston to wear into the cylinder with tighter clearances than is possible with the aluminum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLK402TKozk
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badwolf
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #460 - Today at 17:10:52
 
Dave, you may recall my bike started to burn A LOT of oil and I found the oil holes on the front and back of the piston were filled solid with crud. I opened them back up and cured the issue.
I notice the piston you are showing has no small holes down below the rings, but much larger holes thru the oil ring groves. Could you post a pic of this piston next to a stock one to show  the differnce of the oil return holes front and back?
After my issue I think the larger holes would be good.
I always thought the oil rings pushed all the oil on the cylender walls down, now I know that some oil squirts back inside the piston, to help lube the wrist pin.
Thanks,
               Badwolf
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #461 - Today at 17:21:04
 
I wonder if this could be the cause of the oil leaking out of my head gasket.

Tonight I looked at the head gasket a bit closer - and I was surprised to see that the only black coating was on the top of the top ply and the bottom of the bottom ply.  There is no black coating between the inner layers.......that is not how I remember things.  The adjoining surfaces interior to the head gasket are all shiny, and that doesn't seem like a good way to seal and prevent the flow of oil from the port that carries oil from the cylinder up to the head.

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Dave
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #462 - Today at 17:24:37
 
I pulled an "official" Suzuki head gasket out of my parts box, and as I suspected....the top and bottom plies have a black coating on both sides.  This would allow them to seal better against the shiny inner ply.

So - perhaps the problem has been caused by a crappy "aftermarket" head gasket.....I really have no idea where it came from.  The outside appearance looked normal!
Huh

Here is a Suzuki head gasket.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #463 - Today at 18:39:20
 
Maybe I'm not seeing things correctly, but it looks like the gasket you installed only has two layers (top & bottom).  I believe the MLS gasket is supposed to be three layers (top Black, center stainless steel, bottom black).  Did your leaky gasket only have two layers?

That being said, I can't say whether or not the two-layer gasket is bad or good.  I guess that would depend on the manufacturer.  If they designed it to function with only two layers maybe it's an OK thing, but I prefer the OEM MLS gasket.  All of the MLS gaskets I have worked with in the past were three-layer.

Now that I've rambled on about two-layer vs three-layer, I have to add that I always had oil permeating all through the OEM gaskets on teardown.  There really isn't much of anything to keep the pressurized oil from migrating throughout the layers.  The rolled beads face up on the top layer and down on the bottom layer, so I have never figured out exactly what is supposed to keep oil from squeezing through the center of the sandwich.  I switched to an external oil feed to eliminate that gremlin.  The increased oil pressure from the high-speed gear drive only aggravates the condition.

I see a nice ring around the forward head stud hole in the cylinder.  I am guessing your stud is staying put and hasn't started migrating downward.  Looks like the shiny condition is due to zero coating transfer from the gasket to the cylinder deck, a clear sign that the shoulder on the stud is not bearing against the gasket (a good thing).  How does the stud look?  Is it proud or recessed?

Your cam is lookin sweet, as is all the rest of the stuff in there.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #464 - Today at 18:44:13
 
BTW, thanks for sharing the photos.  I find them very informative.  You mentioned that a quick feeler gage check showed about .005" clearance on your piston skirt.  Do you happen to know what it was when you assembled the engine?
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