SuzukiSavage.com

LANCER Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Savage Beast Performance Parts Posts: 10803 Oklahoma Gender:	OUCH 03/30/15 at 17:37:27 Just sitting for extended periods of time without being able to run seems to have stuck a piston in the cylinder, leading to BAD things. Michael, some of the things we talked about causing the engine knock was either the counter balancer or maybe piston slap...here it is. I am still going to pull the cases apart just to double check the balancer.
Back to top	IP Logged

Kris01 Serious Thumper Offline Eat, sleep, RIDE! Posts: 3767 Tennessee Gender:	Re: OUCH Reply #1 - 03/30/15 at 17:52:23 Aaaa, it'll buff out!
Back to top	There's no problem that a full tank of gas and a sunny day can't fix! 2008 S40, Rotella T 15W-40 w/ZDDP added, Dyna, 140/90-15, Battery Tender Jr., Seat lift, #52.5/150/3 washers, Raptor IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: OUCH Reply #2 - 03/30/15 at 18:08:12 Bummer,dude.
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28999 L.A. California Gender:	Re: OUCH Reply #3 - 03/30/15 at 20:33:47 there's not much to the balancer. and both bearings are visible to the outside of the case. although the stator side is a bit hidden. clutch side, just take off the bolt and you should be able to get a good look at it. I wonder if it's an issue with the wiseco pistons
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

Dave

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18322
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male

Re: OUCH
Reply #4 - 03/31/15 at 03:17:31

Well it looks like there is a rust mark in the cylinder where the piston sat while the engine was in hibernation.

Not sure what to say about the damage to the skirt....it appears to to be a "not enough oil" or "got too hot and the piston got too big for the cylinder" symptom. The rings appear to be free...which normally isn't the case when an engine is overheated at cruising speeds (it appears the oil ring may be stuck).

If you asked me what happened and I only got to look at these 2 photos....my guess would be the owner let the bike sit for a long time and moisture built up in the crankcase and rusted the bottom ring to the cylinder. Then got it running and let it sit and idle for an extended period until it overheated. There isn't much oil being pumped through the engine at idle speeds, and even less cooling going on when the engine is sitting on the kick stand at idle. The engine obviously was ridden prior to being in storage.....as the cross hatch is worn off the cylinder where the rings travel, and that takes a good bit of miles to happen. (Maybe idled for an extended period with the enrichment knob pulled out.....and washed the oil off the cylinder wall?).

Why does everything look so dry and oil free....have the parts been cleaned off before the photos were taken?

Back to top

Someday I will be old......But not today!

IP Logged

LANCER

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Savage Beast
Performance Parts

Posts: 10803
Oklahoma
Gender: male

Re: OUCH
Reply #5 - 03/31/15 at 06:15:05

The compression rings are free but the oil ring set is NOT. That sucker is SOLID in there.
Yep, rust mark around the cylinder where the piston sat for "some time" & "times & a 1/2 time" maybe.
I did wipe the cylinder wall and piston skirt with a shop towel before taking the photos to make it easier to see the detail.
Dave, these came out of REX.

I don't think this has to do with the Wiseco piston; more with extended periods of down time and too little oil on the piston/cylinder at start ups.
I was thinking that on one of those start ups as the piston broke free from its rusted position it was yanked sideways a bit and that was what led to the initial gouging at those two very prominent spots on the cylinder & piston. From there it was all just plain ugly.

But its a good thing I can just BUFF IT OUT & all is good !

Kind of surprising he kept running as well as he did with it like this.

Back to top

IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: OUCH Reply #6 - 03/31/15 at 06:24:20 Will you be looking at some ideas for ensuring such doesn't happen again?
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

Dave

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18322
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male

Re: OUCH
Reply #7 - 03/31/15 at 06:43:01

Well....I know you didn't let it sit and idle for too long - so my new guess would be that the piston was just too plain dry when it was started. I would guess that all that time sitting idle, being hauled cross country, and just sitting around allowed the oil to drain off the piston and cylinder wall...and most likely the gravity allowed the oil to drain out of the oil system and down into the sump. The damage most likely happened in the first few seconds after the engine fired....while the oil pump was trying to fill up the oil passages and oil filter.

I guess the best thing we should learn from this....is that we should spray some fogging oil or motor oil down the cylinder before we start our bikes after a long period of storage. (After seeing this I am going to do that to my bike before I fire it up....it has been sitting since last fall).

Back to top

Someday I will be old......But not today!

IP Logged

WD

Serious Thumper
2005 No Login

Offline

Professional
"scooter
trash".

Posts: 5207
Rosemark TN
Gender: male

Re: OUCH
Reply #8 - 03/31/15 at 07:24:03

That would explain why it was giving you so many problems when you were here...

I need to ATF the CL100 and get it freed up again. If I ever get around to buying a new "carbon dater" for it. Sudco is kinda steep. Really steep for a bike that restored is worth about $10...

And that pic tells me that my 98 (turned over twice in the last 5 years) can be turned into a sign now. Case has been open to the atmosphere for at least 2 years with zero oil on board. Outside, in Dixie. Rings and transmission are probably solid rust at this point.

Back to top

On 2 wheels since 7/87

Black and Chrome 2003 1950s style custom

IP Logged

Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18322 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: OUCH Reply #9 - 03/31/15 at 10:24:14 Now you have a chance to do some Wossner piston testing! I am curious why the Wossner has a "bench" at the bottom of the piston that the Wiseco does not have.
Back to top	WOS-8503D200-2_LG.jpg Someday I will be old......But not today! IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: OUCH Reply #10 - 03/31/15 at 10:29:27 If the wrist pin is right that bench is not needed. Increased piston weight,no function I can see.
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28999 L.A. California Gender:	Re: OUCH Reply #11 - 03/31/15 at 10:44:22 The question would be what to do to prevent the damage. It seems to be a moisture issue more than a lack of oil issue. a squirt of oil and cycling the piston? or change oil and go for a blast?
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

Dave

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18322
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male

Re: OUCH
Reply #12 - 03/31/15 at 10:50:24

Well I tend to believe these folks know what they are doing, and wouldn't put extra weight in a place it is not needed. If you look at images for most Wossner pistons...they don't have that bench on them, and this piston is unique. It could be that the bench provides stiffness, and they are able to make the piston thinner and lighter in other areas as a result.

I just have never used a piston that is shaped that way....and was curious if it makes any noticeable difference in power, vibration or noise.

Back to top

WOS-8503D200-3_LG.jpg

Someday I will be old......But not today!

IP Logged

justin_o_guy2

Serious Thumper

Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.

Re: OUCH
Reply #13 - 03/31/15 at 17:30:20

Yaknow, Dave, I've been watching you, and you're a smart guy. You read my post and you're not convinced. You offered some reasons I never considered. And, they are manufacturers,with mechanical engineers. So, I will come over and agree with you. And, FWIW, it's a Good Looking thing. I just don't understand the reason for the skirt. But they didn't do it just for fun, probably...

Back to top

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

IP Logged

Boogieman Senior Member Offline Bang! Bang! Posts: 284 NORCAL Gender:	Re: OUCH Reply #14 - 03/31/15 at 19:01:28 Huh...now i have to know why there's a skirt on that piston.
Back to top	'03 LS 650 bobber - Highly modified...crashed it. IP Logged