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Android/Chrome/Fuchsia vs Windows/Polaris (Read 15390 times)
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #585 - 03/28/17 at 12:50:31
 
Ah well the lawyers will have a field day, getting richer and richer. I suppose MS will write all their legal fees down as a "business expense".
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #586 - 03/29/17 at 10:18:31
 

http://fudzilla.com/news/43223-optane-could-be-hd-s-swan-song

Intel’s Optane Memory is headed to be one of the most disappointing bits of tech in the world of storage.

NOT WHAT WE WERE PROMISED    ..... Optane is just a cache memory,  one that has OS loading issues too.

The non-volatile memory promised “1,000X” the performance of today’s NAND-based SSDs with far higher density and lower cost than DRAM.    

THIS ISN'T THE CASE. REALLY.

Some even thought that if the tech worked like that you would not need RAM and a hard drive.  Not so, both RAM and a hard drive are still required on any older system.

While the tech is not bad and can find a niche it is not the blistering game-changer we had been promised. Instead we are getting a better version of the Smart Response Technology, an older tech which is easier to use and not so prone to pairing problems.

Intel Optane Memory keeps parts of the OS on the Optane drive to speed up performance and the majority of the OS remains on the platter drive. This means if you want to pull the hard drive from the system, you’ll have to unpair it first.

The current Intel Optane Memory implementation is also limited to a single hard drive. If you run two hard drives, the second one will see no caching improvement. Very much like SRT, Intel Optane Memory increases responsiveness overall. Of course, anything is an improvement over a hard drive.

The other issue is the price difference is not that hot. You can get a 128GB SATA SSD for about 60 euro so why bother?
  Your entire OS and all  your data can go on a cheaper 128GB SATA SSD with room to spare.


Point to all of this ya ya blah blah is that Intel is touting the heck out of a high cost proprietary memory technology implying it can do a lot of wonderful things that IT CURRENTLY CANNOT DO.  

Next, Intel saying that Intel can stick at 14nm lithography first part of this year because "all improvements this year will come from Optane" is just slightly wrong headed.  "All performance improvements this year will come Optane" is just some more brown vapor speak from Intel trying to keep their stock price from going even lower.

All REAL 2017 performance improvements will actually come from AMD Ryzen chipsets at 10nm and from as yet unshipped new 10nm 3-D memory products coming from other memory vendors using a STANDARD 3-D NON-VOLATILE MEMORY INTERFACE that has yet to be declared by MS and the other OS vendors.   (4/2/17 the new generation persistent module NVDIMM-P standards (for the new Optane types) have now been declared by the JEDEC industry standards group)

Optane is just another over priced, overly touted, slower than expected,  overly expensive way to implement Intel "proprietary groundbreaking innovation" yet again.

Point being that you have to be able to put your whole OS into this new style memory system for it to be useful and right now you cannot do this because Wintel's MS part simply hasn't caught up with the tech wave at all yet.
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« Last Edit: 04/03/17 at 15:10:34 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #587 - 03/29/17 at 15:32:22
 

https://liliputing.com/2017/03/intel-not-10nm-chips-equal-better.html

Intel strikes back with the only tech advantage they really have right now -- misleading powerpoints



Why is this misleading?  Firstly, who exactly are the "Others" and what level of tech level will they really be at as Intel promises to release their 10nm in about six months a year from now?   (and how the heck did the others performance actually DEGRADE some from 2015 to 2016 ????)

Please realize that the original 10nm efforts smelled a lot like 12nm gates with 14nm traces back when the very first efforts were done over a year ago especially if you are talking Global Foundry and TSMC as your very first "Other" examples.   Two entirely new generations of 10nm processes has happened since then AND THE FIRST GENERATION OF 7nm IS BEING RELEASED BY SOME OF THOSE "OTHERS" INSIDE THE NEXT FEW MONTHS well before you release your first 10nm.

dated 4/2/2017 NEWS FLASH JUST IN  ---  INTEL SAYS THEY WILL DELAY THEIR 10nm CANNON LAKE PROCESSORS UNTIL MID 2018 AT THE EARLIEST   That is a year from now .....  

This will be well after Samsung and TSMC will both be shipping ARM based 7nm (mobile products) for nearly a full year -- second to third generation 7nm mobile SOCs from both likely planned to be shipping about the time Intel actually ships the very first 10nm Cannon Lake PC processors.

Next, what is Transistor Density Leadership anyway?   Nobody stacks transistors side by side by side in anything but memory chips and GPUs.   CPUs are built up of mostly traces and spaces, transistor groupings, radios, graphics, ect. etc.    This Transistor Density Leadership is a very specious "theoretical" sort of benchmark.

Intel, what "timeline mismatched" apples to oranges are also being represented in that PowerPoint slide?    At the time your 10nm ships, your charts should show your comparison of what you are currently shipping to what your NAMED main competitors are currently shipping (at 7nm or at second-third generation 10nm).  

And a simple die size area comparison would be far closer to a "real comparison" if you would just list all your required primary & secondary & tertiary chip areas along with your competitor's one SOC's surface area.

Intel PR Department often speaks with a generalized brown forked tongue lots of times lately, in attempts to keep Intel's stock price from slipping further, offer an impression of some sort of leadership, etc. etc. etc. etc.

However, give Intel credit, they ARE still struggling and have given up on their "total abandonment of Consumer Electronics" thing pretty much completely at this point in time.

As Intel continues to struggle against the ever larger toilet bowl swirl, this misleading Power Point war will continue and it will be an integral part of that final ride down the big white throne.

Tongue


=======================================


http://www.pcgamer.com/intels-optane-memory-may-not-work-on-lower-end-kaby-la...

Intel's Optane memory may not work on lower-end Kaby Lake chips

By Paul Lilly 4 hours ago

Looks like you'll need a Core i3-7100 or higher to use Optane Memory.

Since reporting on this earlier this week, it's come to light that Kaby Lake Pentium and Celeron chips may not support Optane memory. The folks at TechReport dug their noses into Intel's ARK database and noticed that every processor below a Core i3-7100 did not list compatibility. That includes the Celeron G3930, Celeron G3950, Pentium G4560, Pentium G4600, and Pentium G4620. Same goes for lower power "T" versions of those CPUs.

If true, this is likely Intel's way of limiting Optane memory to higher-end parts .....


Intel, you are ssssssooooooooo obvious sometimes ....  can't you figure out some other way to have an Optane surcharge of some sort without cutting off half your own current production span?    Or does it really REQUIRE a super duper processor just to manage and get the Optane trick to work ????


=======================================


Optane is a proprietary Intel thing and it will NOT be the next industry standard for systems memory.    DDR5 and NVDIMM-P are the next upcoming standards for all the Optane type non-volatile memory systems.

These people are the standards group for RAM and DDR4 systems and SSD and "flash memory" and they ARE WORKING ON THE NEW DDR5 STANDARD which will release the new NVDIMM-P standard which will incorporate all new Optane type memory systems as part of the standard.  

These new memory industry standards will come into effect at about the same time 10nm from all the "others" goes into its second-third generation AND AT LEAST A HALF A YEAR BEFORE INTEL ACTUALLY SHIPS A 10nm ANYTHING.

https://www.jedec.org/news/pressreleases/jedec-ddr5-nvdimm-p-standards-under-...

Mian Quddus, Chairman of the JEDEC Board of Directors, said: “Increasing server performance requirements are driving the need for more advanced technologies, and the standardization of next generation memory such as DDR5 and the new generation persistent modules NVDIMM-P (new Optane types) will be essential to fulfilling those needs.”  He added, “Work on both standards is progressing quickly, and we invite all interested engineers worldwide to visit the JEDEC website for more information about JEDEC membership and participation in JEDEC standards-setting activities.”

JEDEC is the global leader in the development of standards for the microelectronics industry. Thousands of volunteers representing nearly 300 member companies work together in 50 JEDEC committees to meet the needs of every segment of the industry, manufacturers and consumers alike. The publications and standards generated by JEDEC committees are accepted throughout the world.  All JEDEC standards are available for free download from the JEDEC website. For more information, visit www.jedec.org.


dated 4/2/2017 NEWS FLASH JUST IN  ---  INTEL SAYS THEY WILL DELAY THEIR 10nm CANNON LAKE PROCESSORS UNTIL MID 2018 AT THE EARLIEST
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« Last Edit: 04/03/17 at 15:18:01 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #588 - 04/03/17 at 14:05:29
 

Visual reality check on Intel claims to being smaller and denser than the "others" ......


   this is now for ARM products

Qualcomm's current 10nm chipset, the Snapdragon 835, a full function SOC with memory and all functions present inside the penny sized SOC.






Samsung's current 10nm chipset, the Exynos 8895, a full function SOC with memory and all functions inside the smaller than a penny sized SOC.


vs


Intel's "small and light M class" CPU  (still missing lots of various functions and it HAS NO BULK MEMORY as shown)    Yes, Intel's two larger chipsets sitting on a daughter board still don't make up a full function SOC like the Qualcomm 835 and the Samsung Exynos 8895 shown above

   this is now for Intel x86 products


Tongue


Intel, your misleading Power Points and Press releases cannot change what is real.   Your "technical leadership" is all past tense and getting further and further behind as the months roll on past into whole full years of "behind".


=======================================


News Flash    Intel says they plan to go to 10nm, 7nm and 5nm using their existing FinFET processes.   Time line stated by Intel during their lithography tech presentations this past week is 2018 for 10nm, 2020 for 7nm and 2022 for 5nm.   These brown vapor announcements are running two full years behind the others at this current time.

TSMC and Samsung have announced (and have built Apple sample runs on) a refined multi-mask EUV FinFET for 7nm for this upcoming year --- with Gate All Around (electron laser) being their production pick for 5nm and 3nm in 2019-2020.  

Global Foundries announces a complete skipping of later generation 7nm FinFET processes and an early adaptation of a 5nm electron laser based Gate All Around process at 5nm and 3nm (skipping out on the 7nm generation completely as wasted capital and wasted time).    This is a wise plan for Global as Apple has already let the main contracts for 7nm to TSMC with Samsung as a production backup "safety".

ASML (the company that makes all the lithography equipment) was up on the stage with the NON-Intel groups, silently supporting the reality of what was being said as two (2) 5nm electron laser production machines are being built, with one of each slated to be installed at both TSMC and at Samsung sometimes later this year ---  with Global Foundries getting their first one early of next year.

Yep, Apple invests in their product lines 3 years out with basic production process research and Apple funds one future current ASML production line at each pet vendor for their dedicated production refinement use for the next 2-3 years as they build the "at risk" early lots of iPhone chipsets.

"Read between the lines" time --- Intel is using their brown vapor cannon very freely yet again to cover the fact they HAVE NO REAL PRODUCTION LITHOGRAPHY "INNOVATION" PLANS PAST 10nm and that their current 10nm plan is shot full of nagging low yield production issues at the moment, issues that will likely take a projected 12 months to work through Intel's crop of 10nm issues.  

Intel is also noted to be at the foot of the line to get the new ASML 5nm electron laser lithography equipment -- a fact that explains why Intel is sticking to finFET at 7nm, 5nm and 3nm supposedly.    That puts them yet another year behind the pack when they finally get real about having to use electron laser technology.

Intel now states publicly their tick-tock cycle now takes 3-4 years to complete on a single lithography level .....      Roll Eyes


Roll Eyes


......  and yes, Intel, that is your brand new non-competitive 14nm Optane stuff shown over on the left in the pic below.

(example comes from 14nm Intel Optane vs the Besang 10nm Gate All Around system)

That Gate All Around is some powerful stuff, really ..... this comparison holds true at any future lithography level, btw ..... this comparison is made at 14nm which is the current Intel reality.    10nm, 5nm and 3nm will be even worse for Intel when that point in time rolls around.  

Please remember, Intel is two full years behind in lithography as of right now, so Intel's 14nm goes vs everybody else's 10nm, 10 Intel goes vs everybody else's 7 ..... by then Intel should be pretty much defunct or close to it and simply be unable to buy the new ASML technology and do the needed development to even try to catch up.




========================================


Voltage downsize plays out against aging Intel PC CMOS technology

Intel announces they are forming a "task force" to redo all PC CMOS requirements to allow all devices to run on 2 volts or less.

Intel can't buy readily buy really cheap pieces for their PC stuff any more since there is now a ever larger voltage gap between the cheaper, smaller, more efficient stuff the phone industry uses (in very large volumes) vs the old stuff what Intel x86 PC products still have to use (legacy production in much smaller volumes).

This need has arisen very recently since oncoming even more modern lithography levels run the entire shebang on 1.5 volts or less.   The voltage gap has become a Grand Canyon of late .... with Intel sitting on the wrong side of the gap.

Intel still produces legacy products that run at 5 volts or more --- and Intel HAS to get with the sub 2 volt program ASAP or lose the market for those items completely to the voltage decrease which has already arrived.


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« Last Edit: 04/06/17 at 04:31:41 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #589 - 04/06/17 at 04:43:41
 

Why is Apple still potentially tying or BEATING the newest ARM based SOCs measured on single core performance ???

Apple is very very dollar rich of late and they buy the newest technology 3-4 years out and install it at their pet SOC vendors and push these vendors competitively against each other to get the best pricing, best performance and very best delivery.   Since Apple bought that first line, they get a generation's lock on the output from that line, generally speaking.

And then Apple tweeks the chipset and OS system together to optimize what they get out of this stress development drill and yes, it generally is some pretty durn good stuff by the time it ships.

But, Qualcomm and Samsung and now Mediatek are nipping at Apple's heels at the moment, and it would not take much for TSMC to drop a ball or hit a snag on a new Apple SOC and have the others catch up and surpass Apple (temporarily at least).

Apple has hired IBM to work on their PC RISC OS for them to get some breakthrough style power and "some App Magic" as IBM is actually quite strong on conjoined RISC OS and SOC development -- and Apple is no slouch at this trick by themselves either.
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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #590 - 04/06/17 at 04:59:17
 

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/samsung-s8-dex

Samsung's DeX dock makes most old home PCs look anachronistic     the only cords I see in this picture are the monitor power cord and the DeX dock power cord.   Bluetooth 5.0 is quite capable for running the mouse, monitor, exterior speaker and the keyboard, as was promised to us months ago.



"WIRED was perhaps most impressed with a new dock accessory, almost casually introduced after the reveal of the handset itself.

This dock effectively turns your mobile into a home PC that can run Windows Word, PowerPoint and Excel. After you lower the S8 into the DeX, it couples the smartphone to an HDMI compatible monitor and connects to any Bluetooth-enabled, USB or RF-type keyboard and mouse.

The screen wakes up on docking and quick as a flash you are looking at not a mirror of the handset’s display but what appears to be a regular run-of-the-mill PC desktop.

The reason for this is Samsung has completely redesigned the Android UI so it is optimised for use with keyboard and mouse. This pimped UI offers up those familiar multiple resizable windows, contextual menus and a desktop web browser. In short, you immediately feel you are working on a normal home computer.

The DeX Station itself not only houses and fast charges your S8, it has some ports you’d expect from a PC: two USB 2.0, ethernet and USB-C. For the security conscious, while connected to the DeX, the smartphone is protected by the Samsung Knox security platform and no mobile data is transferred from the device to the “desktop”.

Collaborations with Microsoft and Adobe mean Samsung DeX is compatible with Microsoft Office and Adobe mobile apps, including Adobe Acrobat Reader mobile and Lightroom Mobile. The apps themselves have been altered, too, as part of that pimping of the UI. Microsoft Word, for example, looks more like the full-fat home PC version and not the mobile one. However, DeX also allows users to remotely access virtual desktops through offerings including Citrix, VMware and Amazon Web Services should you need access to Windows OS-based apps."


Google and Sammy and Mickysoft did it right, boys and girls, and it smells like a hit "standard feature" now doesn't it ????

Ubuntu seems to think so, as they just tossed in the towel on their Unity convergence system as their efforts to date are not nearly as nice or as good looking.    Collaborations with Microsoft and Adobe mean Samsung can apparently now do good enough mods to Mickysoft Word and Adobe products to make it "much prettier looking" than Micky could do alone on their own super expensive Windows10 phones.

Probably MickySoft is actually pretty happy about this development as a lot of copies of MS Word and MS Excel will be sold with these docking station software sets.

AND IT IS CLEAR TO ALL THAT A QUALCOMM 835 CAN BE A DESKTOP CHIP SET, ditto for a Samsung Exynos 8895, and ditto for one of the new 7nm Mediatek 12 core chipsets when they get here  ......  ditto for an Apple A-11x chipset ......   and it is also clear that any one of these phones can do it a lot cheaper than an old style Wintel desktop or laptop can do it.    Please remember, you will be able to do this with mid-line phones next year, and with all phones within another 2 years .....

MICROSOFT COOPERATING WITH THE LICENSING OF THEIR OFFICE SOFTWARES, including making display fit modifications to these same MS products so they fit well into the DeX package really really breaks some new "flexibility" ground for MS.    It was a smart move for MS to do as it opens up an entire new market segment with MS getting into the ground floor by doing this modification package deal with Samsung.

Intel isn't so happy, they were left standing out in the rain way way out in the parking lot and Intel flat didn't even get invited inside the building to attend this dance at all.  

Look to see Intel to try to partner with somebody to get into this Phone / PC action space ASAP ......   each one of these units sold means one PC chipset Intel cannot sell and Intel cannot afford that volume loss very well right now.


=======================================


Intel hits the air raid siren, the big fog horn and all the brown vapor cannons all at once yesterday -- something has really really upset them over in Automotive/Server world.   One item was ARM saying their Big Little replacement task organizer along with Google's new neuron net style Tensor Flow AI processor unit allowed a paltry 28nm lithography Google custom built Tensor Flow unit (as shown) to run at 30x greater throughput on any properly learned task set compared to Intel's very best x86 based core i-7 14nm product running a standard Win 10 OS or a distro Linux (i.e. using a deluxe normal processor and normal OS programming).  

This shows the very first example of what will come after PC on the big job "power desktop" space.   This thing isn't state of the art lithography and the processor hasn't got much in mhz speed, but it handles 200 threads at once instead of 4 or 6 like Intel does.  

And this is the first design effort actually, all refinements are yet to come.  A prototype that worked so well Google built it all last year to replace a lot of their rack farm hardware (it uses much much less power and is 30x faster to boot).   The Gen 2 is on the way, btw.





This new Tensor Processor puts Intel so far down in the ground they likely need to jest go ahead and dig the rest of the way to China ......

                                   Roll Eyes

                                               ....... as right now Intel's great white hope that they have been hooting so much about lately is Optane which only gives 2x to 6x performance boosts and that only to some very memory recall intensive operations  --- while using VERY VERY expensive x86 i7 chipsets and very large expensive Optane arrays.   That is only 194 times less throughput than this palm sized Tensor Processor unit running the new Google in-house 28nm chip design and Google's Tensor Flow operating system.

Google just blew up Intel's outhouse.     BOOM !!!

Intel is now suddenly planning to be breaking their chipsets up into smaller component pieces (now how is that again, since they aren't really SOCs right now anyway ???) and Intel has announced they are coming up with their own organizing AI software to allow the broken up pieces to be mixed and matched together as needed into an increased throughput product that learns by doing.

A classic "me too" knee jerk reaction from Intel on saying they are going to be doing something they really haven't got a clue how to go about doing.

   Wink    Intel's technical leadership must have been a sitting in the outhouse when the dynamite went off .....

CHANGE, she comes ........

   yup, this is a whole motherboard

https://www.nextplatform.com/2016/05/19/google-takes-unconventional-route-hom...

....... this means the very basic ideas that stand behind the old PC world have started whirling around at the center of the toilet bowl swirl
and are actually beginning the dropping away to never never land ......


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« Last Edit: 04/09/17 at 22:44:57 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #591 - 04/09/17 at 22:21:40
 

What is being seen in PC land, shifts in activity type, etc.

Personal computing (you and me) has multiple paths to take now.  

You can sit at your old computer desk and do most everything on your old PC .... slowly.

You can use your phone's natural ability to cast your screen to a monitor or to a TV and do most everything .....  (with much more ability coming this year and next year)

You can carry a laptop, Chromebook, etc. around with you and do most everything that phones or PCs can do ....


Trends we see are as follows.   People are buying what they believe in ..... Mac people buy Macs, Wintel people buy Wintel,  ARM/Android people buy Google stuff.

However, as Intel rolls away from PC Consumer Space  (and evidence is mounting that Intel never really stopped their Consumer Space abandonment moves despite whatever Intel's PR dept. said)  then PC people are going to have to eventually exercise other options.

These options will tend to group folks around whatever PHONE tech you like and have been using.

The rule of thumb "People are buying what they believe in" is the real controlling thing as folks respond to the waves of change hitting their lives.


=========================================


https://liliputing.com/2017/04/idc-pc-shipments-first-time-years-gartner-nope.ht
ml


We got sales figures for first quarter of 2017 and some definition on Chromebook sales
(in a backwards, left-handed kinda fashion anyway)

According to research firm IDC, the PC market saw growth in the first quarter of 2017… for the first time in 5 years.

The analysts at rival firm Gartner see things differently though. In fact, Gartner reports there were fewer shipments in the last quarter than at any time since 2007.

Huh

There’s a simple explanation for the discrepancy.

For instance, IDC says a Chromebook is a personal computer, but Gartner does not.

In that light, it makes sense that IDC’s growth figures would be higher: Chromebooks have been one of the few bright spots in the PC space in the past few years. While the total number of Chromebooks shipped each quarter is substantially lower than the number of Windows machines, Chromebook shipments have generally been on the upswing while the opposite is true for other types of notebooks and desktops.


Combine the tea leaf readings from the two companies (ooooh, fraught with risk is this one) you could see a smoky image above the oracle flames that says Chromebooks are growing at a 3% increasing quarterly rate (for the last quarter anyway) which is on top of 20%+ annual growth levels from last few years.

Chromebooks grow 3% per quarter, PC stays flat to shrinks a little bit yet again .....


=======================================


Intel is currently reeling like a drunk sailor, as every "new growth" pathway that they had identified and had just made major moves to go pursue has just slapped them in the face with a big wet fish.  

So badly slapped about that they are sitting at a "HOLD" recommendation on their stock with Wall Street, and with Finance pundits saying they need to replace ALL their upper management ASAP to have a fighting chance to survive.

Intel's latest incorrect ASSumption was that they could just Godzilla their way on into Automotive and AI and take over these markets to own them for their very own going forward into the future.  

WRONG .....

Google just handed them the fact they are actually really are 2+ generations behind in lithography and that Intel still can't make up an SOC to save their butts  ..... and in AI they aren't even out on the playing field yet (not even in the football stadium, actually).  

Nor does Intel actually own any tech that the growing AI industry is interested in and that Intel's basic processes are not really a match at all to what AI needs right now.  

Intel has just spent 10's of billions buying up little companies that were already failing to compete in Automotive and in AI  (smooth move, that)  thinking they were getting something for their money.    

Nope, not really.


Roll Eyes    ..... didn't you just do this exact same drill in the Internet of Things arena ???

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« Last Edit: 04/23/17 at 12:17:30 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #592 - 04/09/17 at 23:06:24
 

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/247199-googles-dedicated-tensorflow-pro...
 
New terms for you to absorb .....

Neural Net, Machine Learning, Inference, Massively Parallel, AI

These explanations are not technically complete, but just a way for you to grasp what they are about in general.

  A single Tensor unit       4,000 racked Tensor units .....

Tensor Flow softwares deal with whole integers (whole numbers) and they do this round up/down as step #1 --- this helps a lot as 8 bits can contain most integer data, 16 bits can get almost all of it and 32 bits does hold it all.  64 bits is not needed, ever, except to hold memory addresses on Intel x86 based machines.  This round up/down trick simplifies all subsequent calculations TREMENDOUSLY and the end result comes out the same, with some very minor ending results variation which will be mentioned later on in this post.

The new machines are by basic design kinda like the neurons in your brain, they can connect in lots of different ways and can do a vast number and array of different things simultaneously.   (Neural Net, get it ??)    Alpha Go (show to the right above) the AI that always beats the best humans at Go, the most complex game we own has 1.5 times the potential "neural connects" than a human brain has protein neuron connection pathways ....

Like you, the AI have to learn the ins and outs a new task --- which takes them about as long as our old familiar mainframe computing tasks used to take.  This is called Tensor flow learning. (Machine Learning, get it ??)   It too is a massively parallel activity, and a Tensor Processor can do both machine learning and then do the reflex "inference" execution using that learning.  

The same card can learn new things, then do them inside itself or do them across a bunch of networked cards -- by sharing what was learned with other cards.

Once learned, these simplified and tuned execution tasks (inference) can become "reflex" fast as no learning or modification is needed.   Many many many reflex type "inference" tasks can go on at the same time ......  200 things at a time can be done per card right now with this first very basic Tensor Processor.  (Massively Parallel, get it ??)  When you rack 4,000 of them the power goes up by the total combination possibilities = 4,000200 so the available compute range is HUGELY HUGE.   What used to be considered large tasks like graphics and video become reflex (inference) fast and execution speed is limited only by how fast bus speeds and how fast dynamic RAM memory speeds are on your equipment.  (Google spent the $$$ there as that was where the bang for the Tensor bucks really was).

And here is where Skynet creeps in ..... given enough repetitions, the slight natural ending variations in execution caused by the up/down rounding determine which path of execution is quicker/better, and that "better" execution pathway then becomes the norm.  (AI tuning, get it ??)  Artificial Intelligence learning and on the fly inference tuning means AI can get better and better at tasks as time goes on.      This process takes whole 100's of milliseconds per iteration it does, like forever and a day in computer time, huh ?   It also takes many many repetitions to sense those finer improvements.  So, AI surely CAN learn from its failures and its poorer results, and it never repeats them again as it has perfect memory.

Roll Eyes

...... and yes, preventing Skynet and HAL are real topics that these guys actually do talk about at AI Conferences as AI grows and becomes more complex.

DUNE had AI too -- AI took over for millennia and the Butlerian Jihad that fought the Machine Minds resulted in "Thou shall make no machine in the image of a human mind" as Dune Universe Rule #1.

Never ever even consider building a "thinking machine" inside my Empire .... ever.
I will immediately burn your world with atomics and stone burners if you do, such that the "thinking machine" infection cannot leave your world to infect others.

Edicts of Empire     Emperor Paul Muad dib

..... and so, what do we go do right off the bat ???   We make a goal out of building an AI that can beat our very best Go players in the world, learning from each contest and game until it is now arguably unbeatable by any human intellect.  

And the idiots in our Military see this wonderful campaign planning tool when they see Alpha Go beating humans at Go ..... so they want to go have their very own top secret AI running both wheeled and 4 footed warbots (machine gun & rocket equipped) and small efficient unmanned automated tanks and automated missile firing hover drones to go play their silly war strategy games with.

Arrugh, are you guys complete arsehole idiots or what ??   SKYNET anyone  ???


https://www.extremetech.com/computing/247199-googles-dedicated-tensorflow-pro...

https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musk-worries-skynet-is-only-five-years-off/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/skynet-real_n_7042808.html

  This entire old style rack farm has throughput like the 4,000 card Tensor rack shown up above.

Skynet being born .....
when the repair guy on the ladder goes away ....  
and the machine begins to repair itself directing a robotic fix-it machine .....
which then installs some self-designed improvement modifications that the machine made up for itself .....
hey, then you got you some real potential Skynet type action headed your way .....
because you, Human, you were both too lazy AND too stupid .....
and you didn't watch out to see what your brainchild was doing.




=================================================================



You personally have a little bitty tensor flow based AI "potentially always sitting" in a rack at a Google processing facility.  This AI that comes into being (gets loaded) whenever you tap the mike button on your android phone or give the phone a voice based command.   This AI knows your voice patterns, your common commands and recent destinations and has a big leg up on anything new you might choose to command it to do.   If you give your AI a unique name and command it by that name using your voice, you can even use somebody else's phone to access your AI.

Get used to it, it is a new brave world out there ......
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« Last Edit: 04/17/17 at 06:47:15 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #593 - 04/12/17 at 12:16:42
 

https://liliputing.com/2017/04/will-microsofts-next-attempt-take-cheap-chromeboo
ks-fare-better-last.html

Will Microsoft’s next attempt to take on cheap Chromebooks fare any better than its last two tries?

"Microsoft is holding an event in New York City on May 2nd, where the company is expected to unveil new software, and maybe some new hardware. ZDNet’s Mary Jo Foley, who tracks these things closely, thinks there’s a good chance the May 2nd event will be the official coming out pary for Windows Cloud, a new light-weight version of Windows that we’ve been hearing about for a few months.

The operating system is expected to look and act nearly identical to other versions of Windows 10. But out of the box it will only let you download and install Windows Store apps."


Undecided

Buy our new price supported "Chromebook Killer" and find out the hard way that you are TOTALLY LOCKED IN to having to buy new Microsoft store apps even though you already OWN a full copy of Word, Excel, etc. etc.

Here is the real rub, you can buy an Android wielding Chromebook for less money on sale and then go buy the Android version of MS Office a lot cheaper from the Google PlayStore.  
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« Last Edit: 04/17/17 at 03:31:18 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #594 - 04/17/17 at 03:25:50
 

Far Eastern cell phone suppliers are all reporting a declining market this spring.   They are all now attempting to diversify way from Consumer Electronics as that market is now TOTALLY SATURATED world wide.    

It is now a mid-range pricing "upgrade or replacement" market world wide.   Premium displays and processors have moved down to mid-range as the new 10nm Qualcomms and Samsung chipsets define the new premium zone now.

Qualcomm and the others have taken to suing each other right and left in a feeble attempt to milk the last bit of juice out of the no longer rapidly growing Phone industry.

It is interesting to see all the brand new crop (first time ever) of Chromebooks and Android laptops popping up all over the Far East as the phone boys go looking someplace else to make a buck in 2017.

Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: 04/17/17 at 06:31:17 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #595 - 04/17/17 at 04:27:51
 

https://chromeunboxed.com/can-arm-chips-seize-the-mid-range-chromebook-market/

CAN ARM CHIPS SEIZE THE MID-RANGE CHROMEBOOK MARKET?



"The landscape of the Chrome OS world is changing and evolving at a rapid pace. New devices are being developed with never before seen features for Chromebooks. What used to be the norm for mid-range and high-end Chromebooks is taking on a new look with faster chipsets and new form-factors have completely uprooted what was once the standard fare in a Chrome OS device.

Each year or two, chip manufacturers roll out new generations of processors in order to compete, capture or maintain their fair share of the PC market. Companies such as Intel, RockChip, MediaTek and now AMD, each bring their own strengths to the table to Chrome OS but for the most part Intel has dominated the Chromebook market in the area of plain old number of chips in devices.

This isn’t a bad thing. Intel, until the inception of Android Apps, had everything a Chromebook needed to handle all the tasks it was meant to do. We’ve seen a plethora of mid-level, Braswell-based devices released in the past two years that not only handle web-based computing with ease but do it at a very affordable price. The Acer Chromebook 14 is a prime example. When I take my Gold beauty to the coffee shop, there’s not much of my workload that it’s not going to handle and it looks really, really good doing it. At a distance, you might even think I’m sporting a MacBook or a top-dollar ASUS Zenbook. Some might even be a bit shocked when they find out I’m working from a sub $300 machine.

This is all well and good but I would propose that Intel may have become a bit too comfortable in the entry-level and mid-range Chromebook market. Sure, when it comes to top of the line, it’s really Core M or nothing. I really don’t know if that will change anytime in the near future and that’s ok.  For the every day user however, I think Intel may be on the verge of losing the last bit of its grip in the consumer Chromebook market.


ARM OF THE PAST

Prior to last summer you would be hard-pressed to have found any ARM-based Chrome OS device really worth its weight with the exception of the original ASUS Flip and let’s be honest, it’s not winning any performance awards. Don’t get me wrong, the Flip is in a class all by itself. One of the very few devices to have Android Apps currently in Stable, the Flip set a precedent for what was to come in the next generation of Chromebooks.

Now we are beginning to see a wider range of Chromebooks built on the mobile-centric ARM architecture and I wanted to touch on why that is a good thing for users and possible a not-so-good thing for Intel. In 2015 you had the original RockChip RK3288 found in the Flip and a few other low-budget devices, the Nvidia Tegra K1 which will be seeing the end of its Chrome OS life sooner that later and the Samsung Exynos which, really, just needs to be forgotten. Seriously, I picked up an OG Samsung last summer for like $25 and it could barely run three tabs without crashing. Thank you Samsung for opting to use the RK3399 in the Chromebook Plus. You saved us all some embarrassment there.


ARM, THE NEW GENERATION

Fast forward to today and the list of ARMv8 or aarch64 devices are slowly but very steadily expanding. In September of last year we saw the release of the Acer Chromebook R13 equipped with the MediaTek MT8173C processor with its new big.LITTLE architecture giving it 4 cores that can all run full throttle at the same time while retaining independence of each other in some regards. This is where ARM is going win the battle in the middle weight fight for supremacy. We have seen in the repositories and in real world performance that the ARM architecture may take second place on paper to the once Braswell now Apollo Lake chips but when it comes to handling Android Apps and juggling between them and standard computing ARM wins.

Side-by-side, the widely used Braswell chips like that in my Acer Chromebook 14 consistently score in the mid to upper 8,000’s on Octane tests while the MediaTek and RockChip found in the Samsung Plus are peaking around 9700. The performance of the Play Store and Android Apps, however, is night and day. The ARM chips outperform hands down and it’s just the nature of their design."



WHAT TO TAKE AWAY FROM THIS INDUSTRY WIDE REPORT


Intel hasn't made any real progress on making up a phone chipset.   Phone chipsets now run the lower half of every market, and are moving upscale quickly.   Phone feature sets are demanded by Chromebooks and Android based devices and Wintel is losing their grip on areas they once held.  

Intel's great grandaughter of SoFIA never made it into distribution yet again as it got blown away by the new generation of lower cost mid level ARM chipsets that are mentioned above.

ARM's impending leap to 10nm and 7nm further exacerbates Intel's "not current, not competitive" posture as it would take an Intel Core i5 processor to have the necessary speed & processing power and the Intel Core i5 eats way way way too much power for anything less than a full sized laptop battery to give you maybe 4-6 hours of use time.   The last 2 generations of ARM based laptops are Fully Featured for Chromebook/Android uses, run fast and run all day long on a single charge, and most of these units also now have the phone style rapid 1 hour USB C battery charging right now too.   And they will only get more powerful and more energy efficient going forward from here.

Intel is very very cost and performance non-competitive as of right now and this will only get worse as time goes on.
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« Last Edit: 04/18/17 at 16:41:13 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #596 - 04/18/17 at 15:12:55
 

https://liliputing.com/2017/04/intel-cancels-entire-developer-forum-program-ahea
d-summers-idf17.html



IDF 2016 --- the very last developer conference ever on Intel processors and support bits and pieces.
Chicken and egg time again, who actually quit first, Intel or their developer base?



Intel cancels the entire Developer Forum program ahead of this summer’s IDF17

Intel says the move comes as the company is moving away from a focus primarily on PCs to one that is producing a wider range of products including automotive technologies, Internet of Things products, wireless communications, artificial intelligence, and storage, among other things.

Roll Eyes

AI -- invented it all by yourself last week, huh?    Oh, you went and bought yourself a little AI company last week.  I guess that means you invented it all by yourself six month ago when they say they invented it ....... right .......   Tongue    

Storage, does that mean Optane ???   As invented by Micron, that 3D-XPoint memory stuff, is that what you mean?      Roll Eyes    

What was it again Intel that YOU actually invented in the last 5 years or so ???????

Oh yes, the infamous "Microprocessor Density Metric" PowerPoint slide.    I had forgotten all about that little gem.
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« Last Edit: 04/18/17 at 18:43:11 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #597 - 04/21/17 at 11:39:09
 

Rockchip  RK3399 signals the start of the end for Intel

Samsung has picked it up and is using it for this year's Chromebook Pro --- it is that good and that cheap.    It is a VR ready chipset, with true VR graphics low end levels being built right into the basic design.

A whole BUNCH of Android PCs are being built around it in the Far East ..... in Asia Android is the main OS system as Asians just got phones and Android is all they know.

Linux has accepted and supported it in the kernel now and Linux Distro boxes are being built around it now as well.

The Rockchip RK3399 is actually a tablet and set top box chipset that has good enough specs, power and video to swing over into desktop and laptop space, and by golly driven by its low low price it is doing just that.

Next years 10nm Rockchip unit will be driven by least two of the newer A73 cores and generationally improved Mali VR graphics -- this mid line SOC chipset should be generally useful all across the board in place of low end Intel items.   Rockchip will still cost less than half of what an Intel chipset would cost and it too will fall into the lower half of the Core i5 Geekbench performance zone.

When Win 10 comes out for the modern Rockchip processor laptops as part of MS's newest Chromekiller stuff, then it is all over for Intel as MS's continuing prop up job is all that is keeping Intel relevant at all over on lower cost side of things.

Wink   and I repeat ....

When Win 10 comes out for Rockchip chipsets, it is all over for Intel as MS's continuing Wintel prop up job is all that is keeping Intel relevant at all over on lower cost side of things.

Reviewers are all saying RK 3399's Geekbench score of over 1350 is good enough for flaw and flicker free performance in all venues including the low end VR googles.   Graphics support on the box stock Mali T-864 graphics processor is now built into the Linux kernel right now, so that plays well for Chromebook and Android devices being built right off the bat.

Intel has no lower cost to mid-range performance "competitive products" at this time, and Intel seems to not not be interested in trying to make one up either.  

Intel having abandoned the low to middle market, we see Mediatek and Rockchip moving up into it.   Issue becomes that ARM will not stop there, but will continue to advance until Intel will be defending their Core i7 turf in a few years.

MS will HAVE TO SUPPORT the processor and the graphics in the RK 3399 family soon enough as quite simply, they gotta support it or else simply give up the low to middle end completely just like Intel has already done.   Since the Linux kernel support is already there, this is actually a no-brainer for MS to do this as Win 10 "fully supports" Linux and Linux already has the drivers.    Roll Eyes    right

In a couple of days the new MS Chromekiller system from MS is going to be announced at a MS shindig -- we will see then if RK 3399 is a "if you can't beat them, join them" thing or not.



========================================    new NEWS




Keep in mind, these are the minimum specs, which means we could see some Cloudbooks with better hardware. But here’s an overview:

Quad-core Celeron or better processor
4GB of RAM
32GB of storage for 32-bit systems
64GB of storage for 64-bit systems
40Wh battery
Fast eMMC or SSD storage
Touchscreen displays and support for pen input are listed as “optional,” which means they’re not exactly minimum recommended specs… but Microsoft does expect some device makers to offer those features
.


Dudes, that's MS needing 2x the systems hardware requirements to yield known 2x SLOWER response speeds.   Nothing has changed, really.  NOT COMPETITIVE AT ALL in other words.    

NO TOUCH SCREENS ????   What is wrong with your brain, boys ??   No Android games and apps either ??   Plus you got all those ugly slow MickySoft adds popping up inside your new Win 10 OS all the time.  Bad show there, MS.  Schools aren't going to put up with that at all.   Students certainly won't.

Plus, MS is apparently sticking with Intel x86 processors programming-wise so the final unit cost is going to be a good bit higher than the new ARM mid-Range products that are just rolling out into the marketplace.

Tongue     Chromekiller in 2017 is simply non-competitive yet again, due to Intel and MS's basic nature -- still all requirement bloated and power hungry.   And $$$ greedy too.

You would be money ahead to buy a plus spec'd Chromebook and put MS Office for Android on it, since you are going to have to pay for a new set of Office anyway even if you buy the MS device .....  (plus you get all of Chrome and all of Android Play Store freebies as a no cost extra).  

Last point -- MS has lost their coder base and their MS store is looking kinda sparse at the moment.   Plus many apps that are still listed in the store have never been updated for the last half dozen or so of MS's frantic OS rewrites and that stuff just doesn't work right after a OS nightly update change takes part of it out ....
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« Last Edit: 04/24/17 at 09:46:23 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #598 - 04/23/17 at 12:08:05
 


Google tests second Quantum Computing chipset

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/604242/googles-new-chip-is-a-stepping-ston...


Read the article if you have any interest.  Quantum Computing doesn't use silicone gates, it uses quantum states of matter (real atomic level sorta stuff).   Google and IBM are working in the field and have made great strides making it real inside of the last year.

Smart long money says we will begin to depart "traditional" silicone inside the next 3 years as better stuff (Tensor Flow and now Quantum Computing) is showing practical progress towards real commercialization.

Google is building and using Tensor Flow Processors inside its own server farms right now (for over a year now) so that tech is fully real right now.  

Google also has a strong R&D effort going on Quantum Computing.   This year they plan to make up a Qputer that is more powerful than ALL the supercomputers in the world added together.

That is 12 high speed diode laser connectors that are needed to just move data in and out of the current Google 6-Qbit Quantum Computing chip.    Next one being built is a 50 Q-bit computer.  

The one after that is Unity, the 100 Q-bit capacity rig that is supposedly equal to all the rest of the computers that ever were built all stacked up together .....

Change, she comes ......
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« Last Edit: 04/24/17 at 09:36:07 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Android/Chrome vs Windows 10
Reply #599 - 04/24/17 at 13:13:03
 

https://liliputing.com/2017/04/intel-optane-memory-launches-44-speedy-cache-comp
liments-hard-drive.html

Intel Optane Memory launches for $44 and up    thumbs down



So is Intel Optane Memory worth the money? Maybe not.  

Let's be honest, the article isn't trying to do any serious bashing on Optane, but it stresses that the Optane idea isn't 1) fully cooked yet and 2) isn't the best bang for the bucks right now and 3) being promised a 1000x faster DRAM replacement tech and actually getting something only 4-6x faster that is only a hard drive buffer and still requires the same amount of DRAM sorta leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

As Ars Technica points out, $77 is kind of a lot to pay for 32GB of storage in 2017. And if you’re going to spend that kind of money, you might be better off just buying a modern 120GB or 250GB SSD.   It plugs into the same slot and it can hold your entire operating system while Optane can't and won't hold all of your OS system at all right now being it is limited to only 16 to 32 gigs of memory.

PC World also notes that a high-end Samsung 960 Pro SSD currently offers better performance than Intel Optane Memory in several different benchmarks.

It’s also worth noting that Optane Memory does not provide a way to speed up old computers, because it only supports computers with Intel Kaby Lake Core i3 or faster processors (which are just now shipping). So you’ll need a very recent system (or at least a very recent motherboard).  

Bummer .... so read your fine print, please before buying Optane.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11210/the-intel-optane-memory-ssd-review-32gb-o...

This is referred to as a reference source and it does contain some moderate Optane bashing that basically says you have to buy a new motherboard to use Optane at all and that the Optane SSD style strip 1) isn't as fast as was promised and 2) it will also draw as much power ONGOING as your old style hard drive does all by itself when it is running hard .... said HD you will still be required to have, BTW.

So, for less money go buy yourself a Samsung 960 Pro SSD and plug it into your old motherboard .....     Roll Eyes    Get the speed and the usefulness ....
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