SuzukiSavage.com - Rotella as fork oil?

Gary_in_NJ

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Re: Rotella as fork oil?
Reply #90 - 02/12/16 at 09:15:22

Gary_in_NJ wrote on 02/12/16 at 09:15:04:

cheapnewb24 wrote on 02/12/16 at 08:58:20:
Are you seriously going to trust oil manufacturers and bike accessory companies and dealerships, which are commonly called stealerships to always have the absolute best product that can be made at the very best price?

Yes, I am. Since you have decided to use Bel-Ray as an example, I will tell you that I have been using their products since the mid 1970's. They have an outstanding reputation in the motorcycle industry because their products do what they say they will do. Their support of the industry is unparalleled. You need to separate the business practices of a dealer (stealership) from that of an established company with a well earned reputation.

cheapnewb24 wrote on 02/12/16 at 08:58:20:
I'm not an engineer.

This is obvious to everyone.

cheapnewb24 wrote on 02/12/16 at 08:58:20:
Are you an engineer? Is that why you're sore at me?

I have a degree in aerospace engineering. I'm not "sore" at you. I'm just amazed how someone who knows nothing has convinced himself that they are now an expert because they mixed a few ounces of fluid together.

cheapnewb24 wrote on 02/12/16 at 08:58:20:
Bel-Ray fork oil is not necessarily bad, it just won't work well at extreme temps (provided the figures are correct.)

Can you share YOUR data on this subject?

cheapnewb24 wrote on 02/12/16 at 08:58:20:
Perhaps the oil's low VI is due to its behavior at high temps, not low ones? Maybe it doesn't get thick so bad as it gets thin? Maybe it's just a summer oil, and that's the end of it.

Maybe, just maybe, you don't have a clue as to what you think you know.

cheapnewb24 wrote on 02/12/16 at 08:58:20:
You need to stop making gods out of these industry people. Call 'em as you see 'em. After all I did make some degree of disclaimer by admitting the possibility for missing information or miscalculation, so don't get your panties in a knot.

Like most conspiracy theorists, you come off as a lunatic. Bel-Ray makes outstanding products. They hire great engineers and support many racers and riders. Their marketing is fair and factual. Just who the "f" do you think you are?

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A life-time student of motorcycling.
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cheapnewb24

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Re: Rotella as fork oil?
Reply #91 - 02/12/16 at 09:47:09

I'm nobody. I almost have a Bachelor's Degree, and I work for minimum wage at an old fast food restaurant in a small town. I am dirt. I suppose you are somebody, huh?

Hmmm... And I thought I was sick of the nutheads on Youtube. Now someone's calling me one. Roll Eyes

Hmmm... I'll have to think about that one.

Maybe I'm just open-minded and mistrusting of authority? I must believe in more conspiracy than you do at any rate. Wink

There is some stuff out there that might be true, though I don't entirely believe them. If I don't trust the opinions of regular people, then why would I trust conspiracy people more? That would be a little off.

Well, Mr. Aerospace engineer, I bow before your almighty magnificence and worship you. Tongue

.

cough: sarcasm :cough.

Since you know your fluid mechanics, and we all know you do , pray tell what I am missing? Here is my data source. http://mahonkin.com/~milktree/motorcycle/fork-oil.html Now, if I actually had a graph of all temps and viscosities, I would have a better idea of what I'm looking at, but I don't. Since you are apt to say I don't know what I'm talking about, then why don't you educate me? Or are you one of those people who would down others for ignorance and refuse to enlighten them? Would you down me only to say I'm not worth your time and that I should pay $200k to learn what you did? You would be that cruel, wouldn't you?

Or does Aerospace engineer specifically exclude all knowledge on oils? Did they selectively delete that from your brain? Part of the training? Do they use a little brain zapper or do they use hypnotism. Grin

(Yes, I'm poking a little fun, but I didn't just say that Wink

)

And, before everyone jumps down my throat, I would prefer that you don't.

And yes, Art is correct, I'll argue till the cows come home.

One more thing... Mr. Aerospace engineer (not just any engineer, the almighty Aerospace engineer, you know, the kind everyone goes "ooh" and "ahh" about), being a man of science (applied science, to be exact), you should take into consideration that some famous scientists and their major discoveries fought the establishment tooth and nail. The scientists and engineers, if they were called that, half a millenium ago, trusted the establishment (a religious establishment, nonetheless), and they were wrong. How much flak did Einstein get for his theories? Just sayin' Huh

I may be a young fool with a meaningless discovery that may be found to be worthless and erroneous as trash, and while I may be a poor piece of dirt under your feet for the rest of my nearly pointless existence, you sir, may be committing a rather common (I do it, we all do it) logical fallacy-- to discount the truth of one's opinion based upon his reputation.

Unless you clearly knew, or at the very least, had a fuzzy feeling of what I've done wrong before you made your judgement, then it is likely sir that you have just fallen flat on your face.

Booyah!

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« Last Edit: 02/12/16 at 10:58:32 by cheapnewb24 »

2004 Suzuki Savage, Riding since fall 2015.

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badwolf Serious Thumper Offline Ridin' my Lil' Bagger - 153k miles so far Posts: 807 Palm Beach County, FL Gender:	Re: Rotella as fork oil? Reply #92 - 02/12/16 at 10:29:08 I use baby oil mixed with KY jelly. Oh wait, "FORK" oil? Never mind.
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cheapnewb24 Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1373 Virginia Gender:	Re: Rotella as fork oil? Reply #93 - 02/12/16 at 10:35:34 Thanks for the humor badwolf.
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Dave

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Re: Rotella as fork oil?
Reply #94 - 02/12/16 at 11:17:23

The reason that this thread has turned "sour", is that you have failed to acknowledge that there are folks on this forum who know more than you do, and that we are giving you really good advice (based on years of motorcycle experience and professional degrees)....and you expect that some how we have a responsibility to "school" you. Nope....I don't owe you anything as you have proven that you won't listen to reason or accept help from someone who has been riding and working on motorcycles for the past 50 years.

Do I know more than you about motorcycles?.......absolutely! Do I have a closed mind about new and better ways to do things?....No (but using motor oil and gear oil in forks is not going to improve anything based on my experience).

I am also an engineer.....and yes, Fluid Dynamics are part of the curriculum. And I also had courses on motion, oscillation, damping, friction, physics, heat transfer, thermodynamics, and a year of "Vector Mechanics" that covers Static Loads and Dynamic motion that is linear and/or rotational. I am a "CIVIL" engineer (Which is about as close to "dirt" as you can get compared to an aerospace engineer)! While Gary was taking advanced courses in fluid flow.....I was learning how to build things with steel and concrete.

Each and every time I offered you a recommendation based on my experience, or provided a link in which you could learn something - you basically ignored it and continued down this path of mixing and matching oils to make your own fork oil. What you fail to accept that is although the forks may not be perfect.....and the oil may not be perfect - they are engineered to work together. It is not an accident that this stuff works well together....the factory has designed and tested these systems, and any tweaking that was needed was done long before the products ever came on the market.

I am volunteering my time on this forum to help those folks who have a problem with their motorcycle and need help fixing it.....and are willing to accept experienced help. I choose not to participate any more in your threads.....you have proven to me that you don't want, and are not willing to accept my help.

And nobody has claimed that working in a Fast Food Restaurant makes you less of a person. I worked in Colonel Sanders and Burger Chef in my youth.....and I do remember those days fondly. Nobody has picked on you because of who you are....only made comments based on how you have behaved on this forum. The Moderators will not allow any personal attacks on this forum.

Dave

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gizzo

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Re: Rotella as fork oil?
Reply #95 - 02/12/16 at 14:18:16

Cheap: maybe you could inject some credibility into your argument if you could provide some evidence that you can actually ride, therefore having some understanding of what a fork needs. As far as I can tell you've been riding a few months , fell off in the driveway and went to your sisters house. Try riding a while and see what faults you can personally find with the forks and quit, for now, telling us how they can be improved. You might be surprised to find that they do just fine, as supplied, for your needs. For me, they're good, with ATF, for the most part until I really get up it. Then the forks fade, the front end squirms and I needs to ride a little differently. This happens after some time of aggressive cornering in the hills. But they cool down and come good just fine. In the real world most people don't ride a cruiser like that (and I doubt you have it in you just yet) so you might find the stock forks and oil just fine. Oh yeh: I tried ATF in my other (sport) bike to see what happened. They worked fine until they got hot. Back to 15w fork oil and they're golden.
I understand you want to use whats laying around the house and that's fine. I don't think you're going to find anything that works as well as the product that's designed for the purpose though.
I'm not an engineer too. Just a garden variety qualified heavy diesel mechanic and university librarian. I have never worked in a fast food, factory or retail establishment so can't comment on that other than to say I don't feel I've missed out. Tongue

Good call moving this to the Cafe, Dave.

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cheapnewb24

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Re: Rotella as fork oil?
Reply #96 - 02/12/16 at 15:26:50

Well, guys, I've decided to give this thread a rest for a while. I have something better to talk about which actually refers to riding. The oil I put in seems to work alright. I'm okay with it so far. My complaints were to Gary. Someone's going to chew you out for being ignorant, you might be tempted to order from him some free schooling. That's the way it works. He might not agree to it, but I'll have the nerve to give the order.

Dave, I have to admit that you don't owe me anything. That's fine. It's disappointing to read that you no longer wish to participate in any of my threads, but that's okay, I guess. I'll live.... maybe. And yes, you participate a lot in this forum; you are a moderator. To be honest, though, you have been the one to tell me to do X, Y, and Z and be done with it. That is not how I work. I like to ponder on interesting ideas. Do you ever come up with interesting ideas? Do you like to create and make things better? Don't you have fun little engineering dreams, even if they might be pipe-dreams? Aren't engineers supposed to be problem solvers? Where's the passion, creativity, and desire to break free from the same old? What I've seen so far from Gary and Dave in the past few replies consists of praising companies and pushing accepted practices and ways of thinking. This attitude or spirit does not seem very conducive to my way of thinking. I have considered becoming an engineer, but I may have missed my chance-- who knows. Undecided

I certainly don't have $100k cash in my front pocket, and I frankly don't think I'm ready for that.

Well, so far I am not very impressed with the attitudes of the engineers here so far. Sad

Indoctrination is the word, perhaps, or establishment. Can't say you want to hear it. Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut. Well, anyway, there it is. It's not nice, but there's some of my thoughts on the matter, if you appreciate them.

As far as being called dirt is concerned, the sad part is that I'm ready and willing to call myself dirt. Sad

Bel-Ray is fine, by the way. I would consider purchasing some of their oil if I felt, as a consumer, that I would be happy with what I paid for for the price. As I said, I might consider their HVI oil. Strangely, they make the "Thumper" engine oil that people on this forum were questioning compared to Rotella. Can't say because it's bad. Probably not everyone knows about it. I've never tried it. I don't know the ZDDP levels. It's probably high quality oil with a lot of ZDDP, especially since it's labeled as racing oil. It's probably also expensive.

For engineers, you guys seem to be holding back just a little. Dave seems to put forth some stuff, but we're certainly not spewing forth with mathematical formulas and crazy cool engineering stuff. I guess engineering is boring then Wink

[poke, poke].

If you don't want to share your industry secrets and want everyone to get it the hard way, I guess that's your right.

And Gizzo, if you want riding experience, stay tuned to my next thread. I have a surprise. Wink

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cheapnewb24

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Re: Rotella as fork oil?
Reply #97 - 02/12/16 at 15:30:02

Dave, you don't have to reply to this. I just noticed that you said that you didn't have a closed mind. Still, I have gotten the impression for awhile that you have been a party pooper, at least in my case. You don't have to make any more replies to this thread. If you do, I might be tempted to make a response. Roll Eyes

Thanks for the info on the emulator and such.

I think I'm done here for now.

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old_rider

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Re: Rotella as fork oil?
Reply #98 - 02/12/16 at 20:08:54

Wow.... fun read, for just forks...

Does the bottle say fork oil? Then use it for that....

Are you going to race it? Use the "professional fork oil"...

Are you going to take it to the whupTdo's on the dirt track? "see the above statement"

Wanna mix it and throw in some other type of oil? go right ahead... if it destroys your seals or valves.....don't mix it like that again.

Want to hit a thread and ask what it will do? WHY? Don't you know?

Don't have the money to rebuild it twenty times? .... listen to someone who has done it.

Well now.... my favorite saying is....

If you don't want an OPINION.... DON'T ask for one....

Another one...

Don't bite the hand that feeds you...

Pretty much pertains to all posts..... old motorcycle riders don't get old because they "don't know anything"..... they actually tried stuff too, and lived to tell it

Me... I have never changed the oil in any of my bikes forks.... why?... I would just wipe off the excess and went on riding.
What the handling is bad? learn to adjust Grin

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We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.

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cheapnewb24 Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1373 Virginia Gender:	Re: Rotella as fork oil? Reply #99 - 02/12/16 at 21:13:08 Sounds good to me.
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cheapnewb24

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Re: Rotella as fork oil?
Reply #100 - 02/12/16 at 21:17:54

old_rider wrote on 02/12/16 at 20:08:54:

Wow.... fun read, for just forks...

Does the bottle say fork oil? Then use it for that....

Are you going to race it? Use the "professional fork oil"...

Are you going to take it to the whupTdo's on the dirt track? "see the above statement"

Wanna mix it and throw in some other type of oil? go right ahead... if it destroys your seals or valves.....don't mix it like that again.

Want to hit a thread and ask what it will do? WHY? Don't you know?

Don't have the money to rebuild it twenty times? .... listen to someone who has done it.

Well now.... my favorite saying is....

If you don't want an OPINION.... DON'T ask for one....

Another one...

Don't bite the hand that feeds you...

Pretty much pertains to all posts..... old motorcycle riders don't get old because they "don't know anything"..... they actually tried stuff too, and lived to tell it

Me... I have never changed the oil in any of my bikes forks.... why?... I would just wipe off the excess and went on riding.
What the handling is bad? learn to adjust Grin

Oh! food!

nom, nom, nom. Yuck! Angry

Waaaaaaaah!!!! Angry

CRUNCH!

Oh well, there went that one... Undecided

Seriously, though, oldrider, I kinda like your style. Cool

Peace

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2004 Suzuki Savage, Riding since fall 2015.

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cheapnewb24 Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1373 Virginia Gender:	Re: Rotella as fork oil? Reply #101 - 02/14/16 at 20:29:40 Oh! food! nom, nom, nom. Yuck! Waaaaaaaah!!!! CRUNCH! The story of me...
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gizzo

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Re: Rotella as fork oil?
Reply #102 - 02/14/16 at 22:43:38

Apparently (so I've heard and haven't bothered to confirm it) Royal Enfield specifies 10w 30 motor oil as OEM fork fluid on their Classic range of bikes. Not sure why they bother, seeing the engine takes 15w50 and it doesn't save buying other oil. But maybe you're onto something. Most owner's who've changed fork oil in their Enfields mention the foul goopy filth that comes out. My Continental GT has proper fork oil. It works well.

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LANCER Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Savage Beast Performance Parts Posts: 10798 Oklahoma Gender:	Re: Rotella as fork oil? Reply #103 - 02/15/16 at 08:19:01 Vaguely interesting.
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cheapnewb24 Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1373 Virginia Gender:	Re: Rotella as fork oil? Reply #104 - 02/15/16 at 08:28:31 Yep. Gizzo, when you refer to "foul goopy filth" , does that mean that 10w-30 for the Royal Enfields is a bad idea? You say that I'm "on to something." I'm not quite sure I get it.
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