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Money well spent? (Read 35 times)
raydawg
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Money well spent?
12/03/16 at 07:34:50
 
I too am a registered democrat, but not represented by the present party of Pelosi, et al.

This guy sums up a great deal of how I feel re: the party and what it has become.
I think my wife, and kids have, left it for good. They are simply disgusted.

I feel deep in my heart my parents would have abandoned them years ago as well, if they had lived.

I am at a crossroad....

Re: the Carrier job.

I think this guy, in writing the story the way he did in referencing Christmas presents under the tree, etc, is the exact same complaint he is leveling against his party, the emotional angle instead of the real honest debate of reality.  

This is just a different twist to applying PC mindset/emotions to avoid stark reality and stymie dialogue that might reveal a weakness in our stance.
It is a sense of identity politics, appealing to "workers" tax payers, middle class folks, earners, instead of welfare dependency citizens.

Lets keep it real.....!!!!

Money (tax breaks, etc) given to corporations IS welfare, only corporate, instead of individually.
Either way it is given with hope of sustaining a family, town, or person with the ability to address current needs.
Doesn't it get to that person too, when it is filtered through the corporation first, as a working welfare program, instead of one who does nothing to "earn" that "redistributed" wealth (our taxes) ?

Which program offers the best opportunity for a citizen to become self sufficient?

So called, crony capitalism, or one that is given for nothing?

I work for that HUGH plane builder who gets HUMONGOUS tax breaks, etc....
I see the complaints leveled against them.
I also see the tens of thousands of families that benefit directly from those considerations, and indirectly as that money filters into the economy, providing substance for other families to benefit....    

How far did that "consideration" go in allowing other folk who wanted to become productive?

This is key, I believe, in discerning where the government needs to invest all OUR tax revenue.....
In facts, not emotions, tho at times they can overlap for sure.

Our schools and education IS an investment in OUR future at PRODUCING a generation that can CONTRIBUTE.....
Not until years later, will it hopefully produce, so until that time it is a negative cash drain invested in that student.

But we have allowed that program to be co-opted from producing "PRODUCERS" to promote social engineers, that will not feed capitalism the necessary elements it needs to be a viable, sustaining revenue/wage earning and tax (based) program that can then feed back into it.....

Sorry, long winded this morning  Cheesy

I'll let everyone decide for themselves.  

The article:


I'm a Democrat and I'm ashamed at how tone deaf we've become

By Bryan Dean Wright  Published December 03, 2016  

During a shouting matching Thursday night between top aides of Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, the President-elect’s campaign manager Kellyanne Conway summed up a key reason for why my Democratic Party lost – and will likely continue to lose. “There’s a difference for voters between what offends you and what affects you.”  

To understand what she meant, look to the recent developments in Indiana. Millions of voters in the Rust Belt are in awe as 1,100 of their fellow blue-collar workers at Carrier narrowly missed being laid off. Instead of training Mexican replacements, these Hoosiers are celebrating an American paycheck.

WE HAVE 1,100 HAPPY FAMILIES AND A NEWS MEDIA UNABLE TO REPORT ON SUCCESS

In normal times, my fellow Democrats would have celebrated this modest victory in the fight against globalization. They might have even applauded the president-elect for helping make it happen.

But these are not normal times.

Media reaction captures how tone deaf we have become. My party is advancing stories of outrage over the generous tax incentives that Carrier received – some $7.0 million at present.

We’re hearing disbelief that companies can now blackmail Trump into getting their own sweetheart tax deals. Even trade critics like Bernie Sanders are complaining that Trump didn’t save enough jobs from being shipped overseas.

While there’s merit to these concerns, Ms. Conway knows that however offended some people may be, there are far more who are affected by the outcome.

From now until Christmas, we will see narratives of hard working Americans emotionally recalling how much they feared joblessness and bankruptcy once Carrier shut off the lights. They will tell us of the Christmas that almost was, complete with heartbroken children with no presents under the tree.

But now? There will be presents aplenty. And they will have President-elect Trump to thank for it.

Facts aside, how does this look to average Americans in North Carolina, Michigan, and Wisconsin? For better or worse, the headline is clear: Trump is a president who picks up the phone and saves jobs. Democrats are whiners. It doesn’t matter whether that’s fair.

Trump 1, Democrats 0.

My party continues to make this same mistake with Trump over and over.

During the election, Secretary Hillary Clinton levied a million arguments for why Trump wasn’t fit for the presidency. He was accused of hating women, gays, Latinos, Jews, Muslims, and overweight beauty queens. He had a bad temperament. He was a Russian spy. He bankrupted contractors. He hadn’t paid taxes since the 1980s. His skin was orange and his hair fake.

Since the election, we’ve stuck to the same script. His chief strategist is a white supremacist. His cabinet picks are Islamophobic. His business interests are in conflict with Washington protocol.

But guess what? Most voters didn’t – and still don’t – care. In the Rust Belt and rural communities, they have bigger problems to tackle. Idle factories, saw mills, and coal mines. Families falling apart from opioid addiction. Incomes that have less buying power than 40 years ago. Kids living at home because they are swamped with student debt.

They’re running out of hope.

Enter Donald Trump and his willingness to shame an American corporation into submission. First with Ford in Kentucky. Now Carrier in Indiana.

Love him or hate him, voters see a man who delivers.

All of which begs the question: how will Democrats be relevant in this new era of a hands-on president? After all, the country needs a faithful opposition. We are not China with their one Communist Party.

Thankfully, the path to relevancy is surprisingly straightforward.

First, we must swallow our pride and acknowledge that Trump is America’s president. It doesn’t matter if we don’t like the man. The American people have chosen.

We gain nothing by supporting Jill Stein and Hillary Clinton as they engage in fruitless recounts. No more excuses. We lost and it’s time to move on. The 2018 elections will wait for no one.

Next, let’s celebrate if Trump succeeds. When over 1,000 men and women in Indiana keep their paycheck, let’s be joyful and figure out how to do it again. Wishing for his failure – or minimizing his successes – is petty and undignified. Voters see right through it.

Third, let’s find common cause with Trump where it’s in concert with our values. Start with renegotiating NAFTA and our participation in the WTO. Collaborate on rebuilding America’s roads, bridges, and rail lines. Update our water systems to avoid lead poisoning in our children. And let’s build high-speed internet service for our rural communities.

Of course, there are important differences between the parties where compromise will be tough. The social safety net – Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security – is a fiscal mess. Republicans want fewer benefits, Democrats higher taxes. We’re all going to have to give a little. Nobody will get everything they want.

Make no mistake, there are areas where we simply cannot compromise. We believe in a woman’s right to control her body. We believe that gay and lesbian Americans deserve equality. But even here we can at least be civil as we disagree. Voters and the courts will decide who is right.

All told, Democrats have a choice: we can make the next four years productive for the American people, or we can choose obstruction.

But let’s remember that the friends and family of those Carrier workers are watching. And so, too, are the American people. If we handle ourselves poorly, neither history – nor elections – will judge us kindly.


Bryan Dean Wright is a former CIA ops officer and member of the Democratic Party. He contributes on issues of politics, national security, and the economy. Follow him on Twitter @BryanDeanWright.
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Money well spent?
Reply #1 - 12/03/16 at 10:48:55
 
Voters and the courts will decide who is right.

Given the opportunity I think the voters would protect the unborn in most cases. Yes, cases exist where abortion is reasonable, but as general birth control, no. The court used the Founders exact words and avoided the meaning, went with the letter, not the spirit, of the words and decided that the unborn have no rights. YET, murder a pregnant woman and you're charged with two killings.. ahh, the symmetry of the geniuses minds.

I'm not too excited about the courts abilities to read and comprehend. A careful reading of the fourteenth amendment makes the Anchor Baby ruling fall apart. I'm tired of explaining it, I really am, but, one more time Might create a synaptic spark, so...
I'm paraphrasing, so, work with it.

Blah blah blah, legalized and born in America and Subject TO the Authority thereof,   Blah blah blah..

So, stranger shows up on your porch, she's in labor, you bring her in, baby is coming, NOW, and it's born in your living room.

Born in YOUR HOUSE.  You're responsible for feeding it? You have AUTHORITY over the child? From where?

More Courts will decide.
Read the Commerce clause.
Understand the Purpose, and look at how it is used.

The only Authority America has over that child is to pack it and mom up and export them.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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raydawg
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Re: Money well spent?
Reply #2 - 12/03/16 at 13:26:25
 
Are you using this anchor baby as an example of ?

Or, are you citing this because its a real problem?
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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MnSpring
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Re: Money well spent?
Reply #3 - 12/03/16 at 18:55:43
 
raydawg wrote on 12/03/16 at 13:26:25:
Are you using this anchor baby as an example of ?  Or, are you citing this because its a real problem?


Let's see.    Someone who is weeks away, (or less),   wades across the  Rio Grand,    and has  a Baby, in the USA.

What is their  Goal ?"??????

By  the currently enforced law,   that,  Baby, born on  US  Soil,  is a  Citizen , of the  US.   And the,  Parents, of that, Citizen, (Baby,   NOT  Citizens themselves, but,  ILLEGALS.   are allowed, to stay.  for 18 years,  (as   'parents', of that, 'Citizen').

Again,  'What is  the Goal?"

What,  18  YEARS,  is  NOT  enough  TIME,  to   became, a  LEAGAL,  Citizen  ????????????????????????????

And a,  problem?    
How many times,   EVERY DAY,   does that Happen  ???????

Gee,   someone from, (Let's say  Germany), is  visiting.
And has a  Baby.
A  Stroke of a  pen,  BY  THE PARENTS,
Say, that child is a  German  National.

Yet, a,  "Stroke of a  pen",  by a, (person in a  birthing center on the Boarder),  {{{{   The   GOVERNMENT }}}},  says.   " That,  baby/person, is  a  USA   Citizen"!

HUSTON,   We  got a  Problem  !









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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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raydawg
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Re: Money well spent?
Reply #4 - 12/04/16 at 06:51:48
 
MnSpring wrote on 12/03/16 at 18:55:43:
raydawg wrote on 12/03/16 at 13:26:25:
Are you using this anchor baby as an example of ?  Or, are you citing this because its a real problem?


Let's see.    Someone who is weeks away, (or less),   wades across the  Rio Grand,    and has  a Baby, in the USA.

What is their  Goal ?"??????

By  the currently enforced law,   that,  Baby, born on  US  Soil,  is a  Citizen , of the  US.   And the,  Parents, of that, Citizen, (Baby,   NOT  Citizens themselves, but,  ILLEGALS.   are allowed, to stay.  for 18 years,  (as   'parents', of that, 'Citizen').

Again,  'What is  the Goal?"

What,  18  YEARS,  is  NOT  enough  TIME,  to   became, a  LEAGAL,  Citizen  ????????????????????????????

And a,  problem?    
How many times,   EVERY DAY,   does that Happen  ???????

Gee,   someone from, (Let's say  Germany), is  visiting.
And has a  Baby.
A  Stroke of a  pen,  BY  THE PARENTS,
Say, that child is a  German  National.

Yet, a,  "Stroke of a  pen",  by a, (person in a  birthing center on the Boarder),  {{{{   The   GOVERNMENT }}}},  says.   " That,  baby/person, is  a  USA   Citizen"!

HUSTON,   We  got a  Problem  !




Yo boss, I don't for a second doubt this happens, what I find maybe a wee bit disingenuous is the argument that this is a great big problem.

Is this the straw that will break the camels back, or should we be focusing on issues with a greater impact to our sovereignty?

My question is sincere, I really don't know, and I really look with suspicion upon data provided by folks driven by an emotional agenda to provide it.

You got any pertinent info?
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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MnSpring
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Re: Money well spent?
Reply #5 - 12/04/16 at 17:11:46
 
raydawg wrote on 12/04/16 at 06:51:48:
" ... impact to our sovereignty? ..."  

Let’s try a,  ‘analogy’.

Early 1800’s.
One County,  Caught a  Cattle  Rustler,  Horse thief, red handed,
they looked for the nearest cotton wood  tree.

Another  County,   Caught a  Cattle  Rustler,  Horse thief, red handed,
They put him in Jail, awaited a  traveling Judge, (which then may have taken a month).
The town’s Jail, was, rather easy, to ‘break, out of  with a little help from the outside.

Now,  (if you were a  rustler or Thief)
Which County, would  YOU, (if you were so inclined)
Steal   Cattle or  Horses  in?

So, with the ILLEGAL,   Immigration.
‘Anchor’ babies, have been going on for a  while.
And, because, such a, ‘blind’ eye, to what is happening,
More come.  
Also, More,  ‘just plain  Illegal’s’,  come, because they See,
what is,   NOT   done or  Enforced.

To Numbers:  (JUST,  Anchor Babies)
Highest was 450.000   Lowest was, 295.000  
    A YEAR  !
300.000 -  325.000, were most on the Sites  numbers.

So, 300.000 a YEAR,   (about 8-10% of Births)
Now, that Number, INSTANTLY,  DOUBLES, as soon as the birth takes place.
Soon after, the ‘father’ comes  ILLEGALLY.
Then  Relatives, then other children of that couple, and on and on and on.

Sites:   Did a look, scanned through about 60,
read, about 20.
From Conservative sources, as high as 450.000
 to  Liberal sources at 300.000 (one was 295.000)
Conflicting statements,  and  'spin, L or R'  (depending on the site).
Yet,  the figure of  300.000, And the fact that,  ALL of  US,  Pay for them. Was very universal.

You do the searches, and pick, one of the ends, or the middle, POV.
(Their are sure a  LOT)
Got a big  kick outta one, (NPR), stating the words,  "Anchor Baby" , was   'Racist' !

Below are just  a  few, quotes from  sites.
(Both  L & R,  and  Middle)

Point,   Illegal’s,  are   Draining this Country.
(impact to our sovereignty)

LEGAL,  Immigrants, are  Part of this  Nation.
ILLEGAL, Immigrants, are  NOT !

Consider, a, Pregnant person comes, 300.000
The Baby is  Born, instantly it is, 600.000
The Farther comes, now it is, 900.000
So  900.000  People, who, you and I  Pay For.
Compare that with, 1,000.000   LEGAL,
Emigrants.  Who,   PAY,  their  OWN   Way !
(Each Year)

So, its it a, ‘big’, problem?
Is it, impacting our sovereignty?
      Ah-Yea !



We did, however, find the number in congressional testimony from the Center for Immigration Studies, a research organization that supports lower immigration levels. "Every year, 350,000 to 400,000 children are born to illegal immigrants in the United States," the center’s Jon Feere said on April 29, 2015. "To put it another way, as many as one out of 10 births in the United States is now to an illegal immigrant mother."
...
Those figures may have been accurate several years ago, but they are outdated when compared to current estimates, said Jeffrey Passel, a senior demographer with the Pew Research Center. Passel is the author of a widely cited 2010 Pew Hispanic Center report that pins the number of children born to undocumented immigrants at 340,000 in 2008 (about 8 percent of all births that year).
...
"Figures as high as 400,000 per year are plausible for the mid 2000s, but our current estimates are around 300,000 per year," he told us. "The numbers were higher in the mid 2000s than now — in part because there were more unauthorized immigrants then and overall birth rates, for natives and immigrants alike, were higher before the recession."
...
To compound this problem, those mothers who illegally enter the U.S. to have their anchor babies have little to no health insurance. But they will not be turned away from hospitals because the law requires that they be treated. All uninsured people, regardless of citizenship, receive medical care in hospital emergency rooms under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1985 (EMTALA). The act requires hospitals to treat any patient that enters an emergency room for “emergency care,” which can include anything from a cough to drug addiction to a gunshot wound to depression to being HIV-positive. The Act requires emergency rooms to treat anyone that comes in, but does not require patients to pay for their care. Instead, the costs are passed on to the American taxpayers and those with health insurance through rising premiums. Some hospitals can’t afford the care for the illegals.
...
Australia rescinded birthright citizenship in 2007, as did New Zealand in 2006, Ireland in 2005, France in 1993, and the United Kingdom in 1983. This leaves the United States and Canada as the only remaining industrialized nations to grant automatic citizenship to every person born within the borders of the country, irrespective of their parents' nationality or immigration status.
...
The Pew Hispanic Center, a nonpartisan research organization in Washington, estimates 11.5 million to 12 million "unauthorized migrants" live in the US today.
...
No matter how the Bush administration and Congress act on illegal immigration in the US, any legislation or executive order is unlikely to answer the question: How many immigrants living in the country today are here illegally?
...
Depending on the source, the numbers range widely - from about 7 million up to 20 million or more.
...
Nailing down such figures is impossible. Even settling on a ballpark figure is difficult given the official sources: the US Census, apprehensions along the US-Mexico border, and social service agencies. For one thing, illegal immigrants avoid responding to census questionnaires, states a 2005 report by Bear Stearns Asset Management Inc. in New York.
...
Based on the national census in 2000, the US Census Bureau puts the estimate of illegal immigrants at 8.7 million. As of 2003, the US Citizenship and Immigration Services put the number at 7 million. Since then, United States immigration officials have said the number has grown by as much as 500,000 a year.
...
Those closest to the fight to protect US borders say the figure is higher. The US Border Patrol union Local 2544 in Tucson, Ariz., says the total number of illegal immigrants in the US today is between 12 million and 15 million.
...
The Pew Hispanic Center, a nonpartisan research organization in Washington, estimates 11.5 million to 12 million "unauthorized migrants" live in the US today. It bases its numbers on the "Current Population Survey," a monthly assessment of about 50,000 households jointly conducted by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Census Bureau.
...
But in a letter to a constituent in 2004, Sen. John McCain (R) of Arizona wrote: "According to the US Border Patrol apprehension statistics, almost four million people crossed our borders illegally in 2002." Although many are caught and made to leave the country, a significant number try again. No one knows for sure how many succeed, but Senator McCain's assertion would mean that the number crossing the border and disappearing into the US economy could be much higher than official estimates.
...
"Deriving estimates of the number of unauthorized, or illegal, immigrants is difficult because the government lacks administrative records of their arrival and departure, and because they tend to be undercounted in the census and other surveys of the population," wrote the Congressional Budget Office in 2004.
...
Arriving illegal aliens may number as many as three million a year; more precise figures are elusive
...

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Money well spent?
Reply #6 - 12/04/16 at 22:51:05
 
“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.”



and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,



Now, from what magical spell does the fact that a child was born
Somehow Confer Authority?
How many tourists with visas have a baby during their visit?
Are Those babies American?
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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thumperclone
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Re: Money well spent?
Reply #7 - 12/04/16 at 23:49:09
 
yes

don't agree tho but yes
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standing for those who stood for US
















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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Money well spent?
Reply #8 - 12/05/16 at 00:31:28
 
Yes what? They are American babies?

What confers
Authority?
She has the baby in your living room.
You have authority over the child?
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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