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justin_o_guy2

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Refugees start somewhere
01/31/17 at 18:09:10

I see both sides as responsible for the problems. His criticism of the wars creating the refugees strikes a chord with me.

The mindlessness is unbearable. Amnesty International tells us that we must “fight the Muslim ban” because Trump’s bigotry is wrecking lives. Anthony Dimaggio at CounterPunch says Trump should be impeached because his Islamophobia is a threat to the Constitution. This is not to single out these two as the mindlessness is everywhere among those whose worldview is defined by Identity Politics.

One might think that Amnesty International should be fighting against the Bush/Cheney/Obama regime wars that have produced the refugees by killing and displacing millions of Muslims. For example, the ongoing war that Obama inflicted on Yemen results in the death of one Yemeni child every 10 minutes, according to UNICEF. Where is Amnesty International?

Clearly America’s wars on Muslims wreck far more lives than Trump’s ban on immigrants. Why the focus on an immigration ban and not on wars that produce refugees? Is it because Obama is responsible for war and Trump for the ban? Is the liberal/progressive/left projecting Obama’s monstrous crimes onto Trump? Is it that we must hate Trump and not Obama?

Immigration is not a right protected by the US Constitution. Where was Dimaggio when in the name of “the war on terror” the Bush/Obama regime destroyed the civil liberties guaranteed by the US Constitution? If Dimaggio is an American citizen, he should try immigrating to the UK, Germany, or France and see how far he gets.

The easiest and surest way for the Trump administration to stop the refugee problem, not only for the US but also for Europe and the West in general, is to stop the wars against Muslim countries that his predecessors started. The enormous sums of money squandered on gratuitous wars could instead be given to the countries that the US and NATO have destroyed. The simplest way to end the refugee problem is to stop producing refugees. This should be the focus of Trump, Amnesty, and Dimaggio.

Is everyone too busy hating to do anything sensible?

It is very disturbing that the liberal/progressive/left prefers to oppose Trump than to oppose war. Indeed, they want a war on Trump. How does this differ from the Bush/Obama war on Muslims?

The liberal/progressive/left is demonstrating a mindless hatred of the American people and the President that the people chose. This mindless hatred can achieve nothing but the discrediting of an alternative voice and the opening of the future to the least attractive elements of the right-wing.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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T And T Garage Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9839	Re: Refugees start somewhere Reply #1 - 01/31/17 at 18:13:30 Well put! But where are the republicans calling for an end to the wars? Just saying, it's not all on the left's shoulders.... Americans in general should be calling for a halt on the wars.
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thumperclone Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline PGR rider riding with respect Posts: 7280 Grand Junction Colorado Gender:	Re: Refugees start somewhere Reply #2 - 02/01/17 at 00:18:50 wars keep the economy moving aka "sustainable capitalism"
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raydawg

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Re: Refugees start somewhere
Reply #3 - 02/01/17 at 04:48:57

Wish you guys could list those claims in a manner that would reveal the truth in war is big business....
I get that it's costly, but I am having a hard time assigning it as cause, instead of reactionary to other events.

Let me use ISIS as an example.
Do you think dialogue would ever produce compromise, or peace, with them short of their goal?
Do you believe Imperial Japan was a pawn by American capitalist?

Yes, I believe person capitalize on opportunity, like education, medicine, etc, and I believe it's not moral in the sense that it's really is a necessary need, and the lack of, creates hardship....
War, being the end result to protecting the sovereignty of our nation, falls into that realm, too, I believe.

But to put label some opportunistic people/politicians, as the norm, diverts our focus from the cause....

So, please show me a concerted effort to create war, as a means of economic policy sustainability.

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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Refugees start somewhere
Reply #4 - 02/01/17 at 10:41:35

It takes digging and willingness to see America as the bad guy.
Are you willing? Can you admit we created and armed the rebels? Have you spent any time looking into what life was like in Libya before we Saved them from that Eeevil Gadaffi?
If you have been able to avoid seeing it this long, I don't see how anyone can do it now. It's not so obvious that everyone sees. Otherwise, everyone would demand it cease.

Listen to Ikes farewell address. Check out
War is a Racket.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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raydawg

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Re: Refugees start somewhere
Reply #5 - 02/01/17 at 17:47:43

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 02/01/17 at 10:41:35:

It takes digging and willingness to see America as the bad guy.
Are you willing? Can you admit we created and armed the rebels? Have you spent any time looking into what life was like in Libya before we Saved them from that Eeevil Gadaffi?
If you have been able to avoid seeing it this long, I don't see how anyone can do it now. It's not so obvious that everyone sees. Otherwise, everyone would demand it cease.

Listen to Ikes farewell address. Check out
War is a Racket.

Again, I say it's not a racket, but the results of failure....
Realized, or unintended, really isn't the point, AT THAT POINT.
It's like the earthquakes in California. The price of repair/construction was such, laws were passed to curtail the increase ( gouging ) that was allowed after a natural disaster....
Yes, they are connected, but you can't war with friends, per se Grin

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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Refugees start somewhere Reply #6 - 02/01/17 at 21:12:04 Imsure your opinions are grounded in decades of experience. War Is a Racket is the title of two works, a speech and a 1935 short book, by Smedley D. Butler, a retired United States Marine Corps Major General and two-time Medal of Honor recipient. Wikipedia Originally published: 1935
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MnSpring

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Re: Refugees start somewhere
Reply #7 - 02/03/17 at 19:18:15

War Is a Racket

A Company, makes a hammer, sells it to a hardware store for 1.00
The Store sells it to you for 2.00.

Now a ‘war’ breaks out. That same company, sells the Same hammer to the Government, for 500.00

Who, is responsible for the ‘war’ ?
Is it the people, of this Nation?
Or is it someone who makes the hammer?

If it is NOT, the company who makes the hammer,
Could it be the hammer making company,
is taking advantage, of the, ‘government’, “who looks the other way’,
and does NOT do, ‘due diligence’, to determine, what the hammer costs?

Could it be, the company making the hammer, has a ‘in’, from a person in the ‘government’ perching the hammer, to, ‘Look the other way’, because they are getting a, ‘kick back” ?

So, ‘who’, makes the War ?
And ‘who’ takes advantage of a, ‘war’ ?

Who, ’takes’ advantage, of a policy, to make things in a Country,
Other than the USA?
A Policy, made by a ,’former’, POTUS ?

And who, is/says, they will abolish, such a, ‘advantage’ ?

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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Trippah

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Re: Refugees start somewhere
Reply #8 - 02/03/17 at 19:49:14

Arms manufacturers are delighted in the never ending, continual wars that humans insist on running. From the makers of tanks, fighter planes, spy ware etc come a rousing yeah when they can stir up Catholic against Protestant (The Irish "Troubles", Shia against Sunni, Commie vs capitalist. There are legions of young men with too much testosterone willing to go to war in hopes of plunder, let alone the greater number who think they are serving their country. Do you think that the millions of arabs who have seen over 100,000 of their friends and families blown up by the good old USA love us? JOG is correct and I suspect another war will be coming up soon. Why, because the rich owners of the companies making war products can make more. Because the thousands of poor people will enlist to hopefully pay for education or get training and perhaps a job when they get out (unless daddy is rich and you have heel spurs)(sorry I couldn't resist the dig).

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Refugees start somewhere
Reply #9 - 02/03/17 at 19:57:42

Unless bombs get dropped, guns shot, airplanes flown, destroyed, ships sunk, men killed, the people who make money on war don't make enough money.
The globalists goals, not the needs of the people.

What the hell's Wilson talking about in this quote below?
"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U.S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

How many times do you need to see that there have been a bunch of men who were well established, of good repute, who have said this,,like, Ike, a General, Smedley Buttler, was the highest rank possible at the time,

Major General US Marine Corps, Antiwar Activist : 1881-1940
What does it take to get your attention?

"I served in all commissioned ranks from second lieutenant to Major General. And during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism. I suspected I was just part of the racket all the time. Now I am sure of it."
Received 16 military medals, 5 for valor. Is one of 19 men to receive the Medal of Honor twice.
Wrote the 1935 exposé that linked business and the military titled "War Is A Racket."
Ran for Senate as a Republican in 1932.

And I, until minutes ago, didn't know that he said that.

But, I've said over and over, our military is being used to accomplish things beneficial to people Other Than the People of the United States. And lookie here... so says none other than a man whose reputation is above reproach.

It's time for people to reframe the way they see things.
We've all been pumped full of the Star spangled banner and We are number one,, but I got past it.
Read the books I've told about.
Try Observed Reality..

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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WebsterMark

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Re: Refugees start somewhere
Reply #10 - 02/04/17 at 05:48:07

There hasn't been a world war in 75 years. It will probably be a long time before there's another for a lot of readons. But since the consensus here is money drives wars, a really big war with multiple countries would be bad for business nowdays. You could lose. Nukes could be deployed which changes everything. If there's a world war, it will be driven by idelogy, not profitt. Not that some won't make a fortune off it, some always do, but it won't be started because of that.

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Trippah

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Re: Refugees start somewhere
Reply #11 - 02/04/17 at 07:54:07

It was often said back in the Eisenhower era that the US's foreign policy was guided by Dole - at least for Latin America (which apparently now includes Texas, N.M., Ariz. Calif and NJ Grin

) They weren't called Banana Republics for nothing. Under the guidance of the Texan Patriarchy, Oil has guided our policy. The Brits back in between the World Wars followed the policy set out by British Petroleum, dividing the Middle east into small nations whose leaders gave the most oil for the Pound (Shilling?) The attempt to reshape the Middle East this past decade was a goal of the NEOCONS but wether it was idealogical (fundamentalist Christian or business (break up the OPEC stranglehold ) I certainly don't know. ANd WebsterMark hit the coffin nail on the head, an idealogical war (Sunni vs Shia vs Christian ) could bring about the long awaited "end of days".

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raydawg

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Re: Refugees start somewhere
Reply #12 - 02/04/17 at 07:57:50

WebsterMark wrote on 02/04/17 at 05:48:07:

There hasn't been a world war in 75 years. It will probably be a long time before there's another for a lot of readons. But since the consensus here is money drives wars, a really big war with multiple countries would be bad for business nowdays. You could lose. Nukes could be deployed which changes everything. If there's a world war, it will be driven by idelogy, not profitt. Not that some won't make a fortune off it, some always do, but it won't be started because of that.

I agree.

And FAILURE to present your ideology, in a manner that "free-willed" souls accept, will give opportunity to conflict, when its forced militarily, academically, socially, or legislatively.

It seems, and is, a quadrum, as one size does not fit all.....
But a start would be politicians and societies, leading by example, not by dictate(s).

My example, in my life, would be Jesus.
Knowing I have failed pretty darn good, in exemplifying what "I preach" leads me back to blaming myself, for my failures, to help others, to believe as I do.....

Do you understand what I am trying to convey?

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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)

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