Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
About those statues... (Read 156 times)
Serowbot
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 29685
Tucson Az
Gender: male
Re: About those statues...
Reply #15 - 05/28/17 at 18:06:26
 
pg wrote on 05/28/17 at 14:45:11:
The Civil War was not about Slavery or any noble value.  It was about states remaining sovereign.



BS, neocon, revisionist , history...
The only "States rights" at issue, was the right to own slaves...  That makes it about slavery...
Other interpretations are evasion...
It was about slavery...

"...shortly after Abraham Lincoln was elected. The nationalists of the Union proclaimed loyalty to the U.S. Constitution. They faced secessionists of the Confederate States of America advocating states’ rights to perpetual slavery and its expansion in the Americas."
Back to top
 
 

Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
  IP Logged
Armen
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Half-Witted
Wrench-Jockey from
Jersey

Posts: 1454

Re: About those statues...
Reply #16 - 05/28/17 at 19:00:50
 
Like it or not, the difference between a 'freedom fighter' and a 'terrorist/traitor' is whether your side wins or loses. Mao's and Lenin's gangs still run the show in their countries. Look for a statue honoring the White Russians in Russia, or Chaing Kai Shek in China. It'll take a while to find one. Because they don't exist.
As to where the Civil War battles were fought, last time I checked, Gettysburg was in Pa.
The South was wrong. They lost. It was 150+ years ago.
Get over it.
The rewriting of southern history is like the Japanese calling WWII the 'War of Western Aggression' (which they do). They forget that they drew first blood at Pearl Harbor. Forget how they murdered a million Chinese. Forget the death marches.
A lot of similarities between the Japanese rewriting history and the BS now being spewed by the South about the Civil War.
I do understand that there were two wars being fought. The North was fighting to preserve the United States of America. The South was fighting for their 'way of life', of which slavery was a key part. I understand that no Northern soldier went to war to free slaves. I also understand that the Southerners were fighting to destroy the United States of America, the country I was born and raised in, and love dearly.
So glad they lost.
It was a spectacular act of Christian charity that Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis weren't hanged as traitors.
Back to top
 
 

In theory, theory and reality are the same. In reality, they aren't...
  IP Logged
pg
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 5274
In Transit
Re: About those statues...
Reply #17 - 05/28/17 at 19:34:03
 
Armen wrote on 05/28/17 at 19:00:50:
Mao's and Lenin's gangs still run the show in their countries.


Do you believe the Communists are still in power in Russia?  The Soviet Union was dissolved at the end of 1991.....

Best regards,
Back to top
 
 

I don't make the rules, I just know what they are.....




  IP Logged
pg
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 5274
In Transit
Re: About those statues...
Reply #18 - 05/28/17 at 19:39:14
 
Serowbot wrote on 05/28/17 at 18:06:26:
BS, neocon, revisionist , history...


I didn't revise this letter.


Executive Mansion,
Washington, August 22, 1862.

Hon. Horace Greeley:
Dear Sir.

I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.

Yours,
A. Lincoln.

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm

Best regards,
Back to top
 
 

I don't make the rules, I just know what they are.....




  IP Logged
Serowbot
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 29685
Tucson Az
Gender: male
Re: About those statues...
Reply #19 - 05/29/17 at 08:18:53
 
Yes,...  in the letter, Lincoln is saying his sole and primary focus is to save the Union...
Admitted...
..but,... the thing that is destroying the Union is still... dispute over the right to own slaves...

It just cannot be gotten around.
Slavery... is the issue...
The "States rights" argument is a false flag.
The State right in dispute is the right to own slaves...
It is what it is... It needs to be acknowledged...

Ugly, but true...
Back to top
 
 

Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
  IP Logged
Armen
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Half-Witted
Wrench-Jockey from
Jersey

Posts: 1454

Re: About those statues...
Reply #20 - 05/29/17 at 12:13:47
 
PG,
The former head of the KGB runs Russia. I'd say the l'd say the old gang is still in charge.
Back to top
 
 

In theory, theory and reality are the same. In reality, they aren't...
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 14447

Gender: male
Re: About those statues...
Reply #21 - 05/29/17 at 16:14:27
 
It was a spectacular act of Christian charity that Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis weren't hanged as traitors.


Hardly that. As demonstrated by his letter, Lincoln was a pragmatist; going after the leaders would have kept that fire going.

But, of course The Civil War was over slavery. State's right defenders have to put together a tortured defense to explain away the obvious cause of the war. If the South outlawed slavery, there would not have been a war. If the North had ignored it, there would not have been a war.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
pg
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 5274
In Transit
Re: About those statues...
Reply #22 - 05/29/17 at 20:25:40
 
Yes, slavery was of course the central point of contention, but as an example of state sovereignty versus federal authority. The war was fought over state’s rights and the limits of federal power in a union of states. The perceived threat to state autonomy became an existential one through the specific dispute over slavery. The issue was not slavery per se, but who decided whether slavery was acceptable, local institutions or a distant central government power.  Southern states sought to secede because they believed that the federal government had no authority to tell them how to run their affairs.

Best regards,
Back to top
 
 

I don't make the rules, I just know what they are.....




  IP Logged
raydawg
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 11551
pacific northwest
Gender: male
Re: About those statues...
Reply #23 - 05/30/17 at 05:50:25
 
If you go and read the arguments when the founding fathers were drafting documents, state rights vs. federal power almost never came to an agreement.
Also, the bigger more populace states wanted more say as well, over the smaller states.

Go read the facts, stop with the regurgitation of out of context and pigeon holing data to make it seem what it's not.

History can never be changed.
Back to top
 
 

“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: About those statues...
Reply #24 - 05/30/17 at 06:34:35
 
History is a pack of lies. Texas history books are different than when I went to school. They had to be changed so as to not injure little feelings.
What we were told, the TRUTHS that must be known and used as answers to test questions, some of that is nothing but bullshit.
What happened to the Liberty? What lies were you taught?
What about Vietnam? We HAD to respond to Their Aggression? Right?
And the dastardly deeds of the Iraqis, tossing babies out of incubators, lies, lies, lies,  
When you are able to PROVE you've been lied to by the government, the media and the schools, if you continue to believe them, you're an idiot.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
T And T Garage
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9839

Re: About those statues...
Reply #25 - 05/31/17 at 15:04:01
 
So to sum up... The confederacy wanted to keep slavery.  Lincoln wasn't as much a humanitarian as he was a segregationist.  The south lost and there's no going back.

Traitors shouldn't have statues erected in their honor, right?

Done and done.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: About those statues...
Reply #26 - 05/31/17 at 15:08:17
 
No, but it's not possible to teach the befuddled by the government line anything that conflicts with the training.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
Serowbot
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 29685
Tucson Az
Gender: male
Re: About those statues...
Reply #27 - 05/31/17 at 15:16:55
 
T And T Garage wrote on 05/31/17 at 15:04:01:
Done and done.

...and done... Smiley
Back to top
 
 

Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy2
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

What happened?

Posts: 55279
East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: About those statues...
Reply #28 - 05/31/17 at 15:44:42
 
Yeah, and the answer to the test question on Nam was
We had to because They Attacked our ship.

And We Were Taught That..
And it was a LIE.

And the one eyed will go on seeing only what they are told to see.
Back to top
 
 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
  IP Logged
pg
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 5274
In Transit
Re: About those statues...
Reply #29 - 05/31/17 at 18:25:27
 
Yeah but if a few states were allowed to leave the union, just think of all the gun loving, bible thumper, deplorables who would not be eligible to participate in elections?  

Best regards,
Back to top
 
 

I don't make the rules, I just know what they are.....




  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
12/21/25 at 19:29:21



General CategoryPolitics, Religion (Tall Table) › About those statues...


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.