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Gun guys, a question..... (Read 319 times)
JOEL2014
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #45 - 03/16/18 at 13:42:30
 
Corpjustin_o_guy2 wrote on 03/16/18 at 13:28:07:
Either the founding fathers wrote a self conflicting amendment
Or
The RIGHT of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
Means EXACTLY that.

It is truly a shame that a few wack jobs are messing it up for all the rest of us. I own several guns and I enjoy them very much, and I have NEVER had the urge or inclination to go and shoot up a school or something sinister like that. I personally live by the commandments of God, I just wish that everyone else could as well. It sure would make this nation and world a lot more pleasant to live in.  Smiley
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #46 - 03/16/18 at 14:00:23
 
I live in a neighborhood where bears wander and coyotes nip at children's heels.
I need an AR15.
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #47 - 03/16/18 at 14:18:01
 
Eegore wrote on 03/16/18 at 13:35:03:
 I am pretty sure we can have a discussion about why people "want" a specific type of firearm without talking about the 2nd Amendment.

 If the 2nd Amendment is the only reason you want an AR-15 then don't contribute to the conversation, as it is off-topic.  

 These discussions get pretty easy when we stay on-topic and stop with the name calling.


Fair enough Eegor.

To the question of "want" - in this day and age, it's selfishness.  Just like a motorcycle is selfish, just like a Rolex is selfish, etc.

Nothing wrong with a want.  We all have them.  We all indulge them.

However, this is a particularly different want.  The only purpose of a gun is to severely damage whatever it's pointed at.  Yes, you can talk about skill, etc., but the purpose of a gun has its origins in destroying whatever it's aimed at.  Period.

A Lamborghini is an outrageous want. But its core design is that of transportation.  Nobody really needs a rolex, but its core design is to tell/keep time.

I like guns.  I shoot guns.  I even own guns.  But I don't fool myself into thinking I have any chance of using them to effectively protect myself at all times.  For one thing, I don't sleep with a loaded gun by my pillow.  Mine are locked up in a safe (where they should be) until I take them out.  For another, I don't have the want to conceal carry - or to carry at all.  I enjoy blowing the crap out of clay pigeons and seeing how accurate I can be at the range.  I used to enjoy hunting (when I was younger and thinner).

I, like most Americans, see no harm or infringement upon my rights if there were to be restrictions on ownership of certain guns.  It wouldn't stop the majority of gun owners from continuing the hobby.


Which leads us to the "need" portion of the question.

To restate - guns are designed to inflict destruction at whatever their target is.  If you "need" to inflict destruction on something (outside of hunting game), then you might have bigger problems than a gun can solve.

So, realistically, does anyone besides a hunter need a gun?  Well, if you feel a need to be able to defend yourself, where do you live?  Do you live in fear of being held at gunpoint by a criminal?  Do you live in that bad of a neighborhood?  Have you been in that many situations that you wished you'd had a gun?  I live in the third largest city in the US.  I've seen all the neighborhoods from Andersonville to Wrightwood and I've never felt the need to carry a gun.  Was I scared in some of the neighborhoods?  Oh yeah!  But that never translated to "wow, I wish I had a gun".


So to sum it up - The want is the want - just be realistic about it.

The need - I don't see it.  if someone wants to argue about it being a right, you're right - that's a different matter.  

But enough of the "from my cold, dead hands" - if someone feels a need to own a gun, chances are, it's rooted in paranoia.  
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #48 - 03/16/18 at 14:47:18
 
Don’t have time to read your entire post, but if our need to intervene and infringe on the legal use of others, of a product, based on the propensity to cause others harm, and based on factual numbers of deaths caused by such products, then by far and away tobacco and alcohol has a much greater impact on society and innocence of its citizens.

Should these two products demand more attention?
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #49 - 03/16/18 at 15:10:00
 
raydawg wrote on 03/16/18 at 14:47:18:
Don’t have time to read your entire post, but if our need to intervene and infringe on the legal use of others, of a product, based on the propensity to cause others harm, and based on factual numbers of deaths caused by such products, then by far and away tobacco and alcohol has a much greater impact on society and innocence of its citizens.

Should these two products demand more attention?


You have to read the post ray... c'mon.

But to summarize - the only intent of a gun is to shoot it at something and inflict destruction.

Alcohol and tobacco are recreational drugs.  Their intent is to give pleasure to the those who ingest.  No one knew back way back when that these substances caused the ailments they did.

However, guns were invented for one purpose and one purpose only.  To kill/maim/destroy whatever is in its path.

Alcohol and tobacco are currently more restricted/regulated than guns.  How about that?  IMHO - we should be taxing alcohol at the same rate we do tobacco, for a start.
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #50 - 03/16/18 at 15:26:08
 
The only intent of the Constitutional Amendment is to guarantee Americans always have the Right to own the equipment necessary to do what other places in the founding documents talks about, namely
Cast off the tyrannical government.
You're yammering about something that you don't want to understand.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #51 - 03/16/18 at 19:31:31
 
JOG - remember no 2nd amendment talk on this topic. per OP. Grin
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #52 - 03/16/18 at 21:37:35
 
Trippah wrote on 03/16/18 at 19:31:31:
JOG - remember no 2nd amendment talk on this topic. per OP. Grin


Thank you......

Funny how er, some folks appear to have tunnel vision.
You can keep the baby, and still toss out the bath water .....   Grin

So far we’ve seen some good explanations about guns, the attraction, etc.
I don’t label the gun as a evil thing that deserves my hate, but too, it has a historical significance that I am not sure is relevant anymore...
That is why I am still trying to understand the emotional attachment?????
Not sure if that is a fair assessment, but it’s a fact, I believe, a fair amount of folks own more than enough to secure their immediate safety.
Could the need be based within a fear complex, and the gun makes them feel safer?
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #53 - 03/17/18 at 06:47:25
 
Ray, on one hand, its not your f'ing business why someone wants a gun anymore than its your business if they sleep with a member of the same sex.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To rach his own. Every New Years, my two older brothers and I take whatever high powered weapons we have, go to this area about 100 miles outside of St Louis, walk through the woods and shoot anything lying around that will explod on impact. Hint, a big quartz rock will turn to a massive dust pile when hit by an armored piercing 30.06! Ice in frozen ponds flies 30 in the air!

Point is, you might not get the appeal, many others don't get it, but we get it and have a blast. Why should I give a crap about what someone else thinks about what I think is fun?

From Lonesome Dove: It ain't dying I'm talking about, its living.
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #54 - 03/17/18 at 08:51:18
 
I wanna drink and get high, then.
I like to do it and then go driving.
I don't want to pass out, no, just have a good time, happy, relax a bit.
I love the feeling of driving with my window down as the wind hits my face, its extremely liberating....

I am not trying to get in a accident or hurt others, I will try not and drink that much, hopefully just stop here and there, a shot, a hit, just enough to pursue happiness, not get drunk or endanger people.

I might drive around your town, I haven't seen that before, be cool to see another part of the states, drive by the school yards, malls, etc....

Drink a few at a local pub, etc.....

Gotcha, my gawd darn right, like free speak, if I see a fat person slowly walking across the crosswalk, I can yell at the pig to move their big azz outta the way, or I might just run them over as I gotta find a head to pee....

Right.

I like a world where I feed my wants and needs first, lets say everything I want, or do, ......"trumps"  Grin  
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #55 - 03/17/18 at 09:39:12
 
 Raydawg he specifically stated he was in the woods.  Theres a higher chance of killing someone on the drive there than accidentally shooting someone standing on a frozen ice pond.

 Your comparison of drinking and driving around other people is not the same.  If people wanting to shoot did it where it was illegal, like through town and at local pubs then it would be the business of others.

 I have a lot of land, with gated private roads.  Come drink and drive at my place, nobody will care, and its legal.

 You are comparing obvious crimes like vehicular assault to legal activities and I can't imagine anyone is going to take those arguments seriously.
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #56 - 03/17/18 at 10:01:58
 
Ok, it seems we have circled back to risk factor, yes?
I have asked repeatedly if this is the criteria we use to energize our attention to “threats” upon its citizens, the inherent risk of a action or product....
Which brings me back to the greater risk of, and factual carnage of drinking and smoking?

Shouldn’t this be our first two concerns then?

It, public policy, gets confusing if we can’t “define” the criteria for justification of possible infringements on our rights.

Does that make any sense?
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #57 - 03/17/18 at 10:35:39
 

 Its circular reasoning.  For every person that indicates they use an AR-15 safely you could provide a smoking or drinking example indicating how people could get hurt.

 What I am saying is that I use an AR-15 for fun in a way that doesn't break laws or hurt people.  You are comparing that to drinking in ways that commit crime.
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #58 - 03/17/18 at 10:51:27
 
Eegore wrote on 03/17/18 at 10:35:39:
 Its circular reasoning.  For every person that indicates they use an AR-15 safely you could provide a smoking or drinking example indicating how people could get hurt.

 What I am saying is that I use an AR-15 for fun in a way that doesn't break laws or hurt people.  You are comparing that to drinking in ways that commit crime.


No, I am using your same intentions.
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Re: Gun guys, a question.....
Reply #59 - 03/17/18 at 11:02:11
 

 Right.  A pedophile's pursuit of happiness is sexual interaction with children.  His intentions are the same as mine when I have sexual interactions with adults.

 These comparisons could go on indefinitely.

 I don't think anyone is going to say we need to implement more safeguards to my sex life because I share the same intentions as a criminal.  You are comparing obvious criminal activity to legal activity.
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