FormerlyLostArtist
Ex Member
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MnSpring wrote on 04/25/18 at 08:05:14:FormerlyLostArtist wrote on 04/25/18 at 01:06:54:
You seem to be hell bent on saying that a gun can be misused by killing people with it...." This part, “… the bold part is just as important as the other part…”
“… the bold part is why, it’s not just so everyone who desires to have a gun can have one…” you did NOT answer, Which do you believe in ! I believe, and I'm not saying that this should be law, this is just what I believe, I believe that if you are going to own a gun, you should understand your responsibilities and be trained on how to use that device, in whatever capacity you are going to use that device, hunting (I had to take a hunting safety course before I could get a hunting license, it is much much much more thorough than the one page pamphlet I had to fill out to own a handgun) self defense, I haven't taken it yet, but I imagine the CHL classes go into some more detail, and that might be totally sufficient, but you can, and I have, bought a gun without that class, and maybe that's not such a good idea. and it's not a choice,
I believe the whole thing, not just the end.
If you want a well regulated militia, to protect the safety of a free state, then to those people, the government shouldn't abridge their right to own and bear firearms.
if Jimmy Jo James Brown wants to buy the newest, hottest AR/AK whatawhozit to go shoot rats at the local dump, then, it might be okay for the government to abridge his rights and hand him an single shot shotgun instead.
but yes, I could be misreading the syntax of the second amendment, I'm not an expert in the english language, especially not from 1776, and yes the language back then is significantly different than how we use the same language today, not all across the board but certain words have different cultural/emphasis and relevance than they do today. “…I’ve heard conservatives say…” OK, Describe, ’those’, Conservatives. They can be many kinds. Knowledgeable, or DFI’s or somewhere in-between ? What do they believe in ? All questions, you and I, simply don’t know. So to say: “…I’ve heard conservatives say…”, without any knowledge about them. Means Nothing. But you've claimed expert knowledge about liberals in the same way...
anyway, no, I heard it on some pro gun radio show, maybe even Gun Talk with Tom Gresham, I occasionally listen to that, it's been awhile though, but it's been awhile since I heard that explanation of the words "well regulated" So it wasn't just Jimmy Jo talking out his butt on the corner. The meaning of the word, ‘regulated’, 250+ years ago, I have been told, by Historians, and studies of the Bill of Rights, and practices of Freedom which has been passed down, from a past generation of people that were, studies of the Bill of Rights, where were passed to them by, studies of the Bill of Rights, etc. etc, etc. Is simply. ’The Same Thing’. In other words. They all had, the same caliber, of rifle, so they could all share the same lead ball, or Minnie bullet, if needed.
" I have been told, by Historians, and studies of the Bill of Rights, and practices of Freedom which has been passed down, from a past generation of people that were, studies of the Bill of Rights, where were passed to them by, studies of the Bill of Rights, etc. etc, etc."
and yet you struggle to use english in complete sentences..... and prefer to obfuscate your language by styling it just so that only someone familiar with your cultural usage of the language can possibly understand it (and I'm not sure that I do) to make your points...
if you look up the word regulated in Webster's dictionary:
regulated; regulating
transitive verb
1 a : to govern or direct according to rule
b (1) : to bring under the control of law or constituted authority (2) : to make regulations for or concerning regulate the industries of a country
2 : to bring order, method, or uniformity to regulate one's habits
3 : to fix or adjust the time, amount, degree, or rate of regulate the pressure of a tire
it seems to kind of fit that.
Cause you aren't really suggesting that it means that only one kind of weapon is allowed under the second amendment are you?
or are you saying that militias all had to have the same regulated ammo..??
I'm not exactly sure how your interpretation of the word "regulated" fits here..
I think what I'm suggesting is a far more accommondating and practical interpretation.
and here's another way to see it: https://www.english.illinois.edu/-people-/faculty/debaron/essays/guns.pdf
"English common law had long acknowledged the importance of effective arms
control, and the meaning of the Second Amendment seemed clear to the framers and their
contemporaries: that the people have a right to possess arms when serving in the militia.
Over the years, this “collective rights” interpretation of the Second Amendment was
upheld in three Supreme Court decisions, in 1876, 1886, and most recently, in 1939
(Bogus 2000). The meaning of the Second Amendment remained uncontroversial until
1960, when a law review article using sources like American Rifleman asserted an
additional, individual, right to bear arms for the purposes of self-defense (Hays 1960).
Since that time, a growing bloc of constitutional scholars and historians has asserted that
only the individual rights interpretation of the right to bear arms is correct, even calling
this new reading the “standard model,” as if the original, collective rights interpretation
hadn’t prevailed for more than a century (Bogus 2000b). And the majority of Americans
now believe that the Second Amendment guarantees their right to tote a gun"
and I'm sure you can find some scholar or someone who can defend your point of view as well, so all leads us no where, so thanks for wasting my time
“Straw Man”, Sure, well known Debate Strategy. One brought to it’s purest art form by the he/she, called T&T. And you have learned, partly. Last, (as don’t have time to waste on you anymore, done boiling sap, to make syrup, which requires a lot of attention, to which I can respond frequently in between watching the boil. Today is clean up for next year)So, 100’s of AR-15 Type rifles are made by different manufactures. and 100’s of thousands are made, each year. And EVERY ONE of them, You say, The, Designers, Manufactures, Jobbers, Distributors, Dealers, and Consumers, ALL Say, they are, made ONLY to KILL, another Human ! Let’s see, do YOU, have a gun that YOU, have locked up. So You, are now knowledgeable about the 2nd, so, YOU Know, it will not case any harm to BAN, one kind of a firearm ? and I have absolutely no idea what you are saying in this last bit.
so, you've absolutely exhausted me in just trying to understand what the heck you are saying half the time. I tried, and now I'm done.
ANYWAY--------------
hopefully now, you or maybe some other readers, might understand that there is some history and logic behind some gun control advocacy, yes some of it is extreme, but the majority of us aren't in the "ban guns" or take your guns away, positions, and we'd like to be heard when we advocate for a better background check system or a better way to screen people before they buy a gun, without being accused of being a gun banner or crazy extremist left wing nut job.
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