SuzukiSavage.com - Donald has been played like a skin flute

LostArtist

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Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Reply #15 - 06/12/18 at 13:43:38

WebsterMark wrote on 06/12/18 at 13:40:33:

Anyone proclaiming this deal a failure is being foolish. No one knows the long term success or failure at this point. No one.

All we know right now is a deal was struck that if followed through on by both parties, could only be classified as an overwhelming success. But that waits to be seen.

From what I've heard, there is no reason either side should abide by any part of the "deal" made. There's no enforcement to it.

Good photo op for North Korea though, Kim is equal to Trump in their eyes now.

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WebsterMark

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Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Reply #16 - 06/12/18 at 14:06:54

I don't think so Lost. If Kim doesn't change, he's toast, he has to know that. Someone in his own country will probably try to kill him and might be successful. Maybe he's looking at the rest of the world and decided he wants to be part of it.

I also think he's afraid of what Trump will do to him. I think it's possible Kim sees Trump as someone who will say 'fine, if you don't dismantle, I'll do it for you'.

Or maybe Kim knows the truth about his own nuclear program. Maybe he knows he's a long way from making it work and even if he does, it won't be enough to actually do anything. Maybe he's afraid if Trump and the west decide to preemptively attack him, he'll be exposed as another Saddam. Full of talk but with nothing to back him up. You think the NK army is going to die for him? I think it might be pretty hard to keep the true picture of what's going on away from the population of NK. One benefit of the information age.

So if true, perhaps Kim 'bluffed' Trump and says he'll give something up he never really had. Either way, the US and the world, wins. NK slowly starts the process to turn itself into a valid country on the world stage.
Kim gets to remain dictator and has a little higher comfort level.

Hey, I'm just guessing, but that's all any of us can do at this point.

I just think it's a display of absolute partisanship to be anything other than pleased with the outcome so far.

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MnSpring

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people my age.

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Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Reply #17 - 06/12/18 at 14:14:02

eau de sauvage wrote on 06/12/18 at 09:47:03:

Oh I get it now. I've genuinely been taking you seriously, fool me. Good one JoG you had me hook line and sinker. Tip o' the hat. Had you not gone pushed it so far on that last post you'd have been able to keep me going for a lot longer.

So this, lack of ability to see the Trees, And, the Forrest,
comes from someone who is a Subject.
Who gleefully surrendered the last remains of Freedom.
Who lives in a country that, Does NOT have, the equivalent of the 1st & 2nd.

One who cannot talk smack, about the country he is a Subject of.
Or the P.M., controlling the country he is a subject of.
Or, ‘elected’, officials of the country he is a subject of.
The same way, to the same depth, and the same total lack of respect,
which he talks about another Country.

Is, for me, simply not a person,
which is to be taken seriously.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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Trippah Serious Thumper Offline I ride, therefore I am. Posts: 2517 central Mass Gender:	Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute Reply #18 - 06/12/18 at 14:43:37 It will be interesting to watch, if anything comes out of this deal. To most of the world, I suspect it looks like Trump could have saved a few millions and mailed Kim a white towel.
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justin_o_guy2

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What happened?

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Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Reply #19 - 06/12/18 at 14:48:35

LostArtist wrote on 06/12/18 at 13:43:38:

WebsterMark wrote on 06/12/18 at 13:40:33:

Anyone proclaiming this deal a failure is being foolish. No one knows the long term success or failure at this point. No one.

All we know right now is a deal was struck that if followed through on by both parties, could only be classified as an overwhelming success. But that waits to be seen.

From what I've heard, there is no reason either side should abide by any part of the "deal" made. There's no enforcement to it.

Good photo op for North Korea though, Kim is equal to Trump in their eyes now.

Trump tacitly offered Kim a future of growth. Kim spitting on that is foolish.
Not EVERYTHING has to BE enforceable.
People Go in a direction that is more beneficial to Them.
Trump OFFERED a better future for them.
It's a better future for us and the world, too.
V
Played, LOL..

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/asia/singapore-summit-intl/index.html?ref=hvpe...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/asia/singapore-summit-intl/index.html?ref=hvpe...

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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LostArtist

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Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Reply #20 - 06/12/18 at 15:37:13

WebsterMark wrote on 06/12/18 at 14:06:54:

I don't think so Lost. If Kim doesn't change, he's toast, he has to know that. Someone in his own country will probably try to kill him and might be successful. Maybe he's looking at the rest of the world and decided he wants to be part of it.

I also think he's afraid of what Trump will do to him. I think it's possible Kim sees Trump as someone who will say 'fine, if you don't dismantle, I'll do it for you'.

Or maybe Kim knows the truth about his own nuclear program. Maybe he knows he's a long way from making it work and even if he does, it won't be enough to actually do anything. Maybe he's afraid if Trump and the west decide to preemptively attack him, he'll be exposed as another Saddam. Full of talk but with nothing to back him up. You think the NK army is going to die for him? I think it might be pretty hard to keep the true picture of what's going on away from the population of NK. One benefit of the information age.

So if true, perhaps Kim 'bluffed' Trump and says he'll give something up he never really had. Either way, the US and the world, wins. NK slowly starts the process to turn itself into a valid country on the world stage.
Kim gets to remain dictator and has a little higher comfort level.

Hey, I'm just guessing, but that's all any of us can do at this point.

I just think it's a display of absolute partisanship to be anything other than pleased with the outcome so far.

Why'd he be toast? He just achieved equality with a US president. He got the US president to say he'll stop military actions. He just WON huge.

Why would Kim be afraid of Trump, Kim just MADE Trump concede to KIM.

NK doesn't have the information age. WTH are you talking about? They do have nukes, WE'VE confirmed that.

"I just think it's a display of absolute partisanship to be anything other than pleased with the outcome so far. "
That is possibly the most PARTISAN statement I've ever seen. Tell me about this outcome. What actually has happened?

We've stepped back from an ally to appease NK. right? idk... and all that took was Trump, legitimizing NK on his level...

heck, at this rate, Iran should have never talked to us. They should have kept going with their nuclear program, gotten some nukes, made some actual threats, maybe a few missiles shot at Israel, then gotten Trump to back down from his war-mongering "fire and fury" rhetoric and abandon Jerusalem so that they get to keep their nuclear weapons.... wait, what? yup

Hopefully NK will actually follow through with these unenforced suggestions and there will be peace with a denuclearized NK... but if having nukes is what made NK able to negotiate with a US president directly... then why'd they give them up?

Listen, I want peace too, and I'm glad Kim is talking instead of firing missiles to get attention, so for that I give Trump credit, but for this photo op, that Kim can take to his people and use to say "Look, I brought America to ME." idk, I hope this ends well, but I'm not counting any chickens yet.

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LostArtist

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Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Reply #21 - 06/12/18 at 15:46:46

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/12/18 at 14:48:35:

LostArtist wrote on 06/12/18 at 13:43:38:

WebsterMark wrote on 06/12/18 at 13:40:33:

Anyone proclaiming this deal a failure is being foolish. No one knows the long term success or failure at this point. No one.

All we know right now is a deal was struck that if followed through on by both parties, could only be classified as an overwhelming success. But that waits to be seen.

From what I've heard, there is no reason either side should abide by any part of the "deal" made. There's no enforcement to it.

Good photo op for North Korea though, Kim is equal to Trump in their eyes now.

Trump tacitly offered Kim a future of growth. Kim spitting on that is foolish.
Not EVERYTHING has to BE enforceable.
People Go in a direction that is more beneficial to Them.
Trump OFFERED a better future for them.
It's a better future for us and the world, too.
V
Played, LOL..

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/asia/singapore-summit-intl/index.html?ref=hvpe...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/asia/singapore-summit-intl/index.html?ref=hvpe...

I hope it works out, I do, but celebrating now is premature, that's it. Nothing has actually happened.

Conservatives ripped up a deal with Iran because it had a strong trust but verify element (sure that may have cost us giving Iran some of their own money back...) but are down right praising this deal with NK that has a loose handshake...

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 14448 Gender:	Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute Reply #22 - 06/12/18 at 15:52:32 idk, I hope this ends well, but I'm not counting any chickens yet. All your comments indicate you have in fact counted your chickens and you've already proclaimed them as dead.
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LostArtist

Ex Member

Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Reply #23 - 06/12/18 at 16:02:06

WebsterMark wrote on 06/12/18 at 15:52:32:

idk, I hope this ends well, but I'm not counting any chickens yet.

All your comments indicate you have in fact counted your chickens and you've already proclaimed them as dead.

whatever, you've judged me and found me wanting a long time ago. I'm not the one here trying to prop up some deal that while it may start some good dialogue, has really not done anything yet.... I really am quite neutral on this deal, it seems to be having some good effects so far, but will it last or actually lead to denuclearization, idk, and nothing indicates that it will

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eau de sauvage

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Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Reply #24 - 06/12/18 at 21:29:45

Are you able to state what has been achieved. It is a failure but it could not have been otherwise, the entire exercise is a sham by two political opportunists, the only difference is the the N.Korean population have an excuse for their ignorance.

WebsterMark wrote on 06/12/18 at 13:40:33:

Anyone proclaiming this deal a failure is being foolish. No one knows the long term success or failure at this point. No one.

All we know right now is a deal was struck that if followed through on by both parties, could only be classified as an overwhelming success. But that waits to be seen.

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MAGA! Make the Assholes Go Away

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eau de sauvage

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Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Reply #25 - 06/12/18 at 21:45:55

The only thing 'achieved' is the signing of a document with a 'promise' to denuclearise. A promise that N.Korea has made many times in the past and has never kept. In return for more of the same broken promises, Kim gets to reinforce his dictatorial powers over the world's most impoverished country. The world's most brutal dictator. And this is good for Donald because so many of those who vote for Trump are imbeciles. Or evangelical hypocrites, and believe or pretend to believe black is white to further their own aim. Some are just bitter and want the world to pay, others like the evangelicals couldn't give a rat's ass about anything as long as the can abuse women, stop abortion and oppress minorities. Way to go America.

Donald is perfectly content to walk away with the same promise from Kim that's previously always been broken, while at the same time trashing the Iran deal that achieved genuine denuking, with 100% verifiability.

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MAGA! Make the Assholes Go Away

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WebsterMark

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Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute
Reply #26 - 06/13/18 at 03:49:59

Some are just bitter and want the world to pay, others like the evangelicals couldn't give a rat's ass about anything as long as the can abuse women, stop abortion and oppress minorities. Way to go America.

An utterly ridiculous statement.

Donald is perfectly content to walk away with the same promise from Kim that's previously always been broken, while at the same time trashing the Iran deal that achieved genuine denuking, with 100% verifiability.

Likewise, an utterly ridiculous statement.

Both are completely fictitious.

And the Iran deal had time to show it was not achieving anywhere neat its goals. If 3 years from now this has done nothing like the Iran deal, dump it.

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 14448 Gender:	Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute Reply #27 - 06/13/18 at 04:19:04 very fair article. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/inside-trumps-gamble-on-a-portly-geno...
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LostArtist Ex Member	Re: Donald has been played like a skin flute Reply #28 - 06/13/18 at 14:21:47 WebsterMark wrote on 06/13/18 at 04:19:04: very fair article. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/inside-trumps-gamble-on-a-portly-geno... I agree
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