SuzukiSavage.com - Why tax cuts. What's changed?

eau de sauvage

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Why tax cuts. What's changed?
09/07/18 at 20:50:02

I've been wondering this ever since the GOP announced their tax cuts for the wealthy. Obama put it succinctly in his recent speech ...

How come the GOP like conservative govts the world over decry deficits, as the Republicans did during the Obama administration, yet they have no compunction at all of increasing the deficit by trillions? Trillions.

What is different.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/7/17832092/obama-speech-trump-...

With Republicans in control of Congress and the White House, without any checks or balances whatsoever, they’ve provided another $1.5 trillion in tax cuts to people like me who I promise don’t need it and don’t even pretend to pay for them. It’s supposed to be the party supposedly of fiscal conservatism. Suddenly deficits do not matter. Even though just two years ago when the deficit was lower, they said I couldn’t afford to help working families or seniors on Medicare because the deficit was in existential crisis. What changed? What changed?

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Eegore

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Re: Why tax cuts. What's changed?
Reply #1 - 09/07/18 at 20:57:18

I haven't gotten a straight answer for this myself and I have asked a lot of people.

How does a tax break for the highest tier help the US as a whole, and why was the huge deficit we had before terrible, but the larger one we have now reasonable?

Basically all I get is how low unemployment is but when asked where I can further study how tax breaks and increased deficit helps lower unemployment I get nothing useable, just rhetoric.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Why tax cuts. What's changed? Reply #2 - 09/07/18 at 21:56:53 https://www.bing.com/search?pc=SOWI&form=AMZNS2&q=Companies+lowering+prices+d... Just one example. Gotta go looking and pay attention to information sources for little clues. You can't expect the media to spend time on the mundane. They track the minute by minute stupid crap.
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Eegore Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9914	Re: Why tax cuts. What's changed? Reply #3 - 09/07/18 at 22:05:32 I don't use "the media" for information in general. For instance I look at the power usage and cost metrics from the electric provider to know what things cost, not the news. Utilities in my area are not lower but it seems they might be down in general across the US. It will take some time to get reliable stats.
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eau de sauvage

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Re: Why tax cuts. What's changed?
Reply #4 - 09/07/18 at 22:14:55

@JoG,

the question is not how tax cuts for the wealthy help but how is it that the deficit was very very bad was a normal Conservative agenda the world over, yet suddenly the deficit can be increased by 1.5 thousand billion, in order to give tax cuts to the wealthy. The question is how is it suddenly now OK to blow the deficit into outer space by the same people who have been opposing it since er... ever.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Why tax cuts. What's changed? Reply #5 - 09/07/18 at 22:17:57 What deficit exactly are we talking about?
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Eegore Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9914	Re: Why tax cuts. What's changed? Reply #6 - 09/07/18 at 22:26:33 So looking at my own payment history I am definitely not getting any reduction in cost, but I do not represent in any way the nation as a whole. According to the Dept of Energy section EIA costs are not down on average with natural gas. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_pri_sum_a_EPG0_PRS_DMcf_m.htm
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Why tax cuts. What's changed?
Reply #7 - 09/07/18 at 22:38:13

Really, you folks should have been paying attention. I'm not going digging for the nuggets of information I saw months ago.
I do want to know
What Deficit exactly are we talking about?
And how did a tax cut make it bigger?
Just say what deficit, and I will take it from there.

Like all questions
The answer could be
Dammifino.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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Eegore

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Re: Why tax cuts. What's changed?
Reply #8 - 09/07/18 at 22:48:32

Well some of the electric in CO is down, but its also law as the sales to ultimate customers profit cant exceed a specific percentage, so in chart 5.4.B the year to date sales can be referenced:

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_04_b

This shows in CO a standard trend of usage in thousand megawatt hours. Cost has dropped but not in correlation to the tax break, it started much prior.

I am not sure but I believe looking at the metrics that as the year progresses we will see ultimate consumer prices drop slightly and revenue increases most likely across the board.

I will have someone go through the national net-metering tomorrow and see if I can build a baseline to go off of.

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eau de sauvage

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Re: Why tax cuts. What's changed?
Reply #9 - 09/07/18 at 23:42:30

What deficit exactly are we talking about?

LOL. *The* deficit. I mean how many are there?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/deficit-to-top-1-trillion-per...

Now I'm not even saying that a huge deficit is a bad thing, I'm saying that the republicans have made reducing the deficit a major plank of their core values since ever. But suddenly it's not a problem, especially when it gets the wealthiest people a huge tax cut.

And how did a tax cut make it bigger?

Tax cuts mean money that doesn't come in. So not only does the deficit increase but the cost of servicing the deficit increases not just because it's bigger but because the risk is greater. As I said, I'm not even saying necessarily it's a bad thing but the Republicans have used deficits as a major plank of their policy for decades to justify cuts in social services.

It can be a good thing to increase the deficit in times of say a recession to stimulate growth, worked well in Australia and we largely avoided the last global recession but the Republicans appear to simply be giving the wealthy, tax cuts. Which as Obama says, he doesn't want or need.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Why tax cuts. What's changed?
Reply #10 - 09/08/18 at 01:21:41

Trade deficit.
Budget deficit.
I'm guessing budget is the focus.
Spending
Spending
Spending

I'm not able to understand WHY the military, that Same Military that has a budget in excess of several countries total spending combined, actually Needs to be
Rebuilt.

We need to stop the military intervention all over the world and take care of America.
But the people who are dead set against Trump are also dead set against that.

Now, do I have enough information to KNOW why we've been doing the things we've been doing?
Is my understanding of it even close?
Because so far, it looks like military adventurism to blow up stuff and spend money, to further enrich the criminals who decide to go to war.
But I'm a cynic.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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